Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: x Sam Jan 17 2017, 01:31 AM

So, this was brought up in Discord chat so figured I'd post it here because why not? Worth a shot, after all.

As we all know there are less active users on the site. This means there are less active breeders available for eggs to be bred and donated to the shelter. Due to circumstances with errors and lag, the bot Alex and Thomas, whom used to breed a vast majority of eggs on the site have since been disabled leaving breeding to a small pool of users.

Understandably during Site-Wide Shiny Hunts, users will be breeding the 3 Pokémon hunted. Then what? What do these users go on to breed? Chances are, probably more pointless eggs that the shelter is already in abundance of.

This poses a few issues:

• It has been quite difficult to shiny hunt various Pokémon, due to there being either a small number of users breeding or none at all. For example, I've been hunting Emolga since last year, as far as I've found (in terms of eggs) there is only a single active user who is breeding them, despite there being 4 total breeders (which in itself is still minuscule).
• It also poses a problem to new members, with eggs being unable to be found. Yes, they may find some Pokémon in the Safari Zone to which they can then attempt to breed, but for how long? They might just breed it and then hatch a single egg, donate the last 4 and change their pairs.
• It makes the site limited in terms of Pokédex completion; Egg, Pokémon and Shiny.
• As of posting this, out of all breedable Pokémon on GPX+, there are 202 non Novelty Pokémon that have 5 or less breeders - and what are the chances that these users have been 'active' in the last few weeks?
• Currently throughout the day we see around 2000-2500 users (ish), so there's definitely enough active accounts about, but most are breeding useless things we don't need.

So that aside, I'd like to suggest some form of incentive to get active users to breed Pokémon that have no breeders, or at least, next to no breeders and a smaller amount of eggs. I'd like to suggest 'Mission Cards'.

==============================================



Mission Cards are a current feature in the game Pokémon Shuffle, by which each card consists of different tasks that a user must complete under different circumstances, in their own time. Upon completion of a task, you would receive so many stars; the more stars available the more difficult a task is to complete. After so many stars you would receive a prize, and once the card had been completed you would receive a 'Grand Prize', so to speak.

In the case of the site, different tasks for users to complete could be things like:

• Breed a certain number of Pokémon egg species.
• Hatch a certain number of species bred by other users. *
• Level X Pokémon to 100. *
• Breed a shiny of a certain Pokémon species.

* This is to serve the purpose of it not being 'pointless' to breed the eggs in the first place. No reason to breed them if there's no reason to hatch them, right?
* This I'm not particularly sure about. It was something I'd thought of to perhaps provide people with another means of Pokédex completion, among possible breeding pairs.

Mission Cards come with different difficulties, so a variety of colours would be ideal. Perhaps indicated by the number of tasks available, the longer the task and number of rewards available.

==============================================




Looking about for particular items to class as a 'reward', I came across a few different things that could be used. In the Unova games, there was a place called Abyssal Ruins that bore a variety of 'treasures' that trainers collected and then basically sold to collectors for a high price.
These were Relic Items:



How I feel this could work is as difficulty increases then different Relic Items are awarded as a prize, so Relic Copper would be the easiest and go up to perhaps the Relic Vase and the last 2 could merely be awarded randomly; more so within harder difficulty cards and perhaps just sold for points instead.

In addition to this random site items could also be given as rewards, VS Seeker Items, occasional Choice Items and maybe other Valuable Items. Other site items such as Flame Orbs could also be available too.

Summon Items could be a possibility as part of a more difficult reward, so they wouldn't appear under easier cards (to limit the possible abuse)

I did have in mind perhaps some form of exchange system for the Relic Coins, as so they're not completely useless. Instead of exchanging these Relic Coins for items, they could perhaps be used in exchange to gain access to higher cards, so in order to access a medium difficulty card you would need to have 4 Relic Coppers in your inventory. These would then be used up thus allowing you to access a medium difficulty card.

==============================================

I'm not sure what else to say in regards to this, obviously ideas can be tweaked. I feel a limit would need to be placed on how many cards you can undergo at once or within a time period after completion.

Another thing that could be something to think about are multiplier days - obviously more eggs are created, so whether they would go towards the count or not is a different thing.

Thoughts on this? Any suggestions? Can guarantee you I've probably worded something only I can understand at 6:30am in the morning so let me know if anything sounds.. dodgy.


*Edited due to apparently incomprehensible text* toldyou

Posted by: Gryphaena Jan 17 2017, 08:57 AM

I think your idea is useful and well thought out.

I'd like to participate in Mission Cards after I finally hatch a Shiny Bidofo from my Daycare pair.

Posted by: Cryptic Lyric Jan 17 2017, 09:46 AM

I actually really like this idea. I know with my Cranidos hunt that I was the only person breeding it for a long while, and even I stopped because I moved on to a different hunt.

I know some people are trying to create a "living dex", but the pokemon are simply not there. At least not in the shelter, and who wants to scour the lab for an egg that may or may not even be there?

Maybe the effects of multiplier days - more eggs bred and hatched - could be chalked up to bonus cards, ones that were set aside for those reasons. They could have higher threshholds and perhaps completely different prizes?

Posted by: x Sam Jan 17 2017, 10:02 AM

That's something yeah. I guess it could work similar to how Aurora and the Star Guided Journey works; maybe it'll only trigger from a minimum number multiplier?

Nothing too drastic to put people off, though aha.

Posted by: Cycloneblaze Jan 17 2017, 03:24 PM

You've always got the best suggestions, Sam. I'll easily support this, it sounds real cool.

Posted by: SilverPT Jan 18 2017, 01:24 PM

I support this as well. It would be even better if it worked side-by-side with the Achievements.

Posted by: Gryphaena Jan 18 2017, 02:04 PM

How would it work side by side with achievements?

The achievements are clear and we're not allowed to propose new ones.

Edit: I have an idea, what if the Mission Cards were something that Alex and Thomas do since they don't breed anymore?

They'll generate Mission Cards and say something like "Hey, [name], we've noticed that the population of [Pokemon species] is drastically low! Would you help us out by breeding some? Thanks!"

Posted by: SilverPT Jan 18 2017, 10:59 PM

What I meant by that was that the implementation and creation of new Mission Cards would not hinder/cancel the implementation of new batches of achievements and vice-versa.

Posted by: x Sam Jan 18 2017, 11:17 PM

It's a nice idea but the way it comes across is like they're a 'chance text encounter' asking for a favour, opposed to something that is completely independent. They could, by all means, have a different section that A&T run and offer you different cards to choose from (limited choice) to which you can then carry out the mission card.

I'd rather Alex and Thomas not be directly linked to it (in terms of how you suggested) and keep them separate in that respect, but if they 'ran' the 'area' I guess that would make sense.

Posted by: Spoovo The Pirate Jan 21 2017, 04:34 PM

As someone who actively breeds obscure things (Currently Bastiodon x Slowpoke), I'm personally all for this. My flatmate's recently started a hunt for Maractus, so I'd imagine she'd be all for this aswell.
At the very least, something needs to be done. There are scores of eggs you literally just can't find without a miracle. Even semi 'common' ones like Smoochum take a lot of luck.

Posted by: InsaneMoments Jan 24 2017, 04:04 PM

Just a thought, i doubt it will be usable, but what about a second daycare, possibly one that you cannot claim an egg for?

Id forsure breed other things, but unless i want to stop my clone hunt I cant overly switch out my pairs all that often.

If I had a second daycare, that I would have to release obviously I could breed other randoms without it impacting my personal hunts

Posted by: x Sam Jan 25 2017, 12:10 PM

Second daycare could work along side things I guess - could be an incentive to use it to breed, considering one of the things I suggested was to hatch eggs bred by other users I feel it could work.

I'm sure someone suggested a second daycare before.. I'll find it and link to both (the forum thread and your post, Vikk)

Posted by: Manah Jan 28 2017, 12:08 PM

I love this suggestion (I'm definitely one of those users that have trouble finding certain eggs at times), but I'll be honest, I wouldn't use it much, for two reasons:

1) Shiny novelty hunting - keeping up with the release of new novelties is already near impossible.
2) The extra hour you have to wait for eggs after switching out your pair makes breeding different things...not very appealing.

Not much can be done about 1), other than a second daycare (which I also support), but if a site feature requires you to switch your pair often (if you do multiple missions), we need to get rid of 2).

Posted by: Tyranisaur Jan 28 2017, 12:27 PM

I don't think there's an inherent need to switch breeding pairs often. The issue that should get addressed is that there's a mismatch between what people are breeding and what eggs people want to pick up. In the bigger picture, you would think that most of eggs picked up are for the purpose of shiny hunting, and this takes a while. So it would be natural to not switch out the breeding pair until at least someone get to complete their shiny hunt. How many eggs you need to breed to complete someone's shiny hunt depends on both how many breeders and hunters there are for that pokemon. If there are few hunters and a lot of breeders, then it will take a long time. Even if there are few breeders, it might still take a long time if nobody is hunting them. Finding out which eggs to breed that are useful is not only something we should incentivze, it is also hard to do even if you want to.

Posted by: x Sam Feb 13 2017, 01:51 AM

I'm probably misunderstanding with the incentivising eggs to breed, but that's why I've included the shiny part to the 'missions' - there's no point breeding things if nobody will hatch them obviously. If I'm getting the wrong end of the stick I do apologise, ha.

Posted by: Indigo Dreams Feb 14 2017, 02:31 AM

Can we make the number of eggs produced per hour be increased or decreased depending on their availability in the Shelter?

I'm not sure if I explained that well, but if a Pokemon egg is not as common in the Shelter, couples that can breed that egg will breed more of those eggs. Likewise, couples that breed a common egg will breed less of those eggs. The likelihood of breeding more or less eggs would automatically change with the amount of eggs in the shelter, which I'd assume is possible and it would assure an equal distribution among non-Very Rare and non-Novelty eggs. I don't know how this kind of system would work with those rarities though.

Posted by: x Sam Feb 20 2017, 01:21 AM

So you mean, the number of eggs in the shelter scales with how many are produced?

Posted by: Genocider Syo Mar 7 2017, 12:45 AM

Or rather, how many are produced scales with how many there are in the shelter. Or it could scale with how many active users are breeding that species.

Posted by: EmmeBearPaw May 7 2017, 07:55 PM

Really anything that encourages people to breed Pokémon that aren't already super common is something that I will wholeheartedly support. Seriously, I am the only breeder of Natu on the entire site. Pokemon like Natu completely fall of the face of the shelter if that one or two people decided to stop breeding them. There really does need to be a way to prevent more obscure Pokémon from falling out of existence, because if they do then it may cause a ripple effect of no new players breeding them because they can't get the Pokémon to actually breed.

Posted by: Mars Adept Enten Aug 18 2017, 10:40 PM

I'd be for this, as some Pokémon *cough*Crabrawler*cough* have hardly any breeders which makes their eggs hard to find. I haven't even seen one Crabrawler egg in the Lab or Shelter, and I need that for my Egg 'Dex. Yet I see tons of Crabrawlers in the Safari Zone and that infuriates me.

So even for people wanting to get egg completion stats up, this would be useful.

Posted by: Cycloneblaze Aug 23 2017, 06:13 PM

I'm bumping this thread inadvertently, because I was reading it again and I wanted to add to this point. What I get from Tyr's rather long-winded post is that if the eggs Mission Cards tell users to breed don't match up with the eggs people need for hunts they're a bit useless. So perhaps the cards (I'm supposing here they're a constant feature in your Daycare) would look at site data and tell people to

• breed eggs for which the ratio of hunters to breeders is highest (many more hunting this egg than are breeding it)
• hatch eggs for which the ratio of hunters to breeders is lowest (many more breeding this egg than are hunting it)

thus clearing the Shelter of eggs people aren't using for shiny hunts and adding in eggs that people are hunting. Of course it'd be a little more complex than that otherwise everybody would all be told to breed the same egg, but you get the idea.

Posted by: YoRHa No9 Type S Aug 23 2017, 09:18 PM

Again, I think it would be important to make sure the cards only count active users. I'd also add that certain eggs that are always in demand, such as the ones required for TBD and DotW, have their populations weighed against how many active users are on those explorations and not past those tasks. Personally, I think only berry tasks are more annoying than egg tasks.

Posted by: AregularFrankiefan Sep 3 2017, 01:20 AM

This is definitely an interesting idea, and I'll gladly back it. Would be nice to see and have a use for Relic Items, too. And I didn't know the bot was disabled; today I learned, I guess.

Posted by: miu Sep 17 2017, 04:17 AM

I've given this some thought, and if the idea is to incetivise breeding the species that people are actually looking for, then I don't think that leaving the generation of Mission Cards to a bot would help. If there are currently ~200 Pokemon with less than five breeders, odds are that the chosen Pokemon wouldn't be the ones that people are shiny hunting, or those they need for the dex or for explorations.

What if users were the ones that generate the cards? A Mission Card can only be started for a Pokemon with less than five *active* breeders. Others can join that mission if they also need that Pokemon, and others can back a mission by breeding that species. Backers earn rewards: the more eggs they donate to the Shelter, the better the rewards.

 For example: Emme is shiny hunting Natu, and she is the only one breeding it. She starts a new Mission Card for Natu. Others might join her, this way we can tell which Pokemon people need more and help others decide which Card to back. I am hunting popular species that are quite abundant in the shelter, so I dont really have anything I need to breed. I decide to back a mission, so I start breeding Natu and join Emme's Mission Card as a backer. A Mission Card would dissappear after two weeks or so, and then the rewards are given out. The more Natu eggs I donated to the shelter, the better the rewards.

This way we can help people who are shiny hunting less popular species. For people who need something for their dex, it's a quick way to get some eggs for them into the shelter. And I can imagine exploration Pokemon would have Cards up almost all the time, so there would be a decent amount of them in the shelter.

Posted by: x Sam Sep 17 2017, 06:58 AM

The idea isn't just about breeding. I get what you're saying, but there are other aspects I mentioned as-well (such as hatching so many eggs of the bred species)

Posted by: Emma Uchiha Sep 21 2017, 07:33 PM

I very recently returned to the site after a very, very long hiatus.
I've been having this issue, as well.

Honestly, as much as I'd love to see more of certain eggs, this system is way more complicated than it needs to be. A lot of extra steps that are really just another way to get items. We shouldn't be able to bribe people into helping us, or get incentivized to put our goals on hold to help someone else.

I feel it would be simpler to just remove the mechanic that hides our own eggs in the shelter. The 'Special Egg Limit' was removed due to lower user activity, so why not allow claiming our own bred eggs after x amount of time has passed? We're still limited by how many eggs we can have and hatch in our party/Mobile Walker, and the time limit allows others a chance to grab them before us.

My breeders produce an insane amount of eggs every day and no one wants them. They're just being fried and eaten by the site. I've hatched 75 eggs for my current Tauros shiny hunt, at least 15 of which were from the shelter and lab, whereas I've produced 601+. So I'm breeding more, and more, and more, and just flooding the shelter with more eggs no one wants. Clogging the system. Whereas, if I could see my eggs in the shelter after 72 hours had passed, I could chill on the breeding while I hatched what was already available and take a break to breed something else, thus helping populate another species.



Now, to address the second problem, how do we know what needs an increased population?
Maybe statistics could be put front and center. Weekly polls asking what breedable Pokémon the userbase needs/wants, with results displayed somewhere obvious.

I think this might be partly what the staff was hoping Shiny Races would encourage. Two users seeking the same shiny breeding and benefiting from one another's eggs. But for a site where we rely so much on each other, socializing is always secondary. We mass click people we've never spoken to, take eggs from strangers, etc., so how many people are actually going to challenge random people to shiny races, you know?

Posted by: x Sam Sep 21 2017, 08:56 PM

I get what you're saying, but by removing the factor of allowing yourself to claim your own bred eggs from the shelter would have a knock on effect with other site features, rendering them completely useless.

I see what you mean and I did actually consider it in my original suggestion but I erased it, mostly because of the reasons above.
It's not actually that complicated of a thing, either.
Items aren't necessary, it was just something that I threw in. If people have an incentive to get goodies, people will do things. That's how it works.

Posted by: Emma Uchiha Sep 22 2017, 08:49 AM

A 72-hour waiting period between when you release any given set of eggs and when you can adopt them seems like it would negate any ill effects on other systems on-site. I think I get what you're saying, but I can't think of anything it would affect negatively. Is there anything specific that came to mind for you?

I figure, too, if I could pick up more eggs, I could complete my shiny hunt faster, and I could move on to breeding something else sooner. I won't stop breeding Tauros until I no longer need Tauros, especially because it's currently my only reliable source of Tauros eggs, and I imagine most people are the same.

You're absolutely right, people won't do something for nothing, but what I more meant was, we should try to think of something where breeding the eggs is the reward in itself, or that at least discourages people from breeding hundreds of eggs only they want.
Because artificially influencing Pokémon population doesn't seem like a good thing, we have plenty of reference for that - the number of Mimikyu/Cutiefly everywhere after the SWSH started is ridiculous. There are too many people breeding, even considering how many are hunting, and they're showing up more in the Lab, as well, to further decrease the need for, according to the stats page, 483 breeders among the three SWSH 'mons. 483 breeders who would otherwise be breeding less popular Pokémon, probably many of which who wrongfully believe they're helping the hunt by breeding those overpopulated Pokémon even if they've finished it themselves.

Posted by: Breech Loader Oct 15 2017, 08:23 AM

Part of the problem is that a lot of members of the site haven't visited their accounts in years, so of course they're not going to breed whatever incentives they're given.

Posted by: Cycloneblaze Oct 15 2017, 10:54 AM

Don't you think that only active users would be given Mission Cards? They already don't count for breeding statistics.