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Posted by: bookist May 6 2009, 07:18 PM

It was said that arceus came before the universe, yet mew has been described as the first pokemon (not too mention it has the ability to learn any move suggesting it gave birth to arceus at one point). So what do you think? I say mew simply because it can learn more moves than arceus and if arceus was the first one it should too.

Posted by: dark thunder May 6 2009, 07:29 PM

and mew was made before arcesu(mew was made in the first gen. arceus was made in the 4th gen.)

i say mew since you dont necasarilly have to have a universe to exist(or atleast mew doesnt)



ps: why is this named "which came first, arcues or shaymin apparently it should be mew

Posted by: bookist May 7 2009, 06:49 AM

QUOTE(dark thunder @ May 6 2009, 08:29 PM)

Posted by: Scenery May 7 2009, 06:50 AM

Mew! i think it's more cute

Posted by: jumiofdiamonds May 7 2009, 12:51 PM

Mew.

Mew didn't need a world to be in, it could have simply been wondering space in a bubble; floating along until something else came along and created the universe and the world it came to exist on. Time is a funny thing though. While Mew may have been the first pokemon, Arceus could have been pushed forward in time, or backwards, by one of the Dragon Trio and created it before Mew even existed. BUT, still be created or born or existing AFTER Mew.

Another thing to think about is that Mew is part of the first generation. This was before we even knew that Arceus and such even existed. Science is all about discovering new things. Arceus could very well be the first one. Things always change when you learn new things. Get what I mean?

But I still think it was Mew. It wouldn't surprise me. I mean I know the games are necessarily connected, but look at Pokemon Snap. You take pictures of Mew in a space like setting. Just kind of fits my theory of how Mew was just floating until it found a universe that was later created.

Posted by: BrokenLatias May 7 2009, 07:29 PM

Mew. Without a doubt. I believe that Mew was the very first Pokemon created, and it was just wandering around in its little bubble, then stumbled upon the newly made earth, created by Arceus.

Posted by: Lorelei May 7 2009, 08:12 PM

Well they say Arceus is God, so Mew must be like Jesus. I had a conversation about it before but I'm way too tired to explain why we thought so, maybe later.

I don't think it matters if Mew was in the first gen...what about Palkia and Dialka? If they represent time and space, and Mew was supposedly first, what exactly would Mew be floating around in? Nothingness?

Posted by: FalconWolf May 7 2009, 08:21 PM

MEW! From the first movie they have been saying it was the Origin of ALL pokemon. Why would they suddenly change that, it just confuses everyone.

Posted by: Dys Tuvai May 10 2009, 11:15 AM

Mew. Mew was created in 1997 along with the rest of Generation One. Arecus was vomited up by the fine bastards at Gamefreak only recently.

Within context of in-universe-ness, I hardly think that they had anything to do with each other. But then I also think that everything about Arceus creating the Sinnoh Region and Mew being the core genus of all PokeMon are just creation myths out of many others. >>;

Posted by: Flamer May 10 2009, 11:25 AM

Arcues. Personally, I think Mew was created by Arcues becuase he was too lazy to go around creating all the Pokemon himself. This would explain why Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon, whilst keeping Arcues status as the god of all Pokemon intact. Afterall, if Arcues got Dialga, Palkia and all that lot to make space, time etc for him, then it makes sense he would have got something else to make all the Pokemon as well.

Brings up the question of who created all the humans in the game though If Pokemon created the universe and everything in it, then it stands to reason that a Pokemon created humans too, no?

Posted by: Spearow May 10 2009, 11:35 AM

I like to think they came in at the same time: Arceus created the physical universe while Mew created living things to populate it.

Really there's no logical canon answer for which came first, at least not yet - I personally think it was just careless writing on Game Freak's part. They'd already created a very vaguely God-like legendary but they needed one to crown Gen. IV off, so they invented another more decisively God-like one. The real question is what they're going to do with the next generation. How do you top the supreme creator?

Posted by: Dys Tuvai May 10 2009, 11:36 AM

Technically the Arceus myth does not mention anything related to mew. It mentions Arceus creating Dialga and Palkia, which created the physical universe, and then Psychic Midget Patrol, which created life.

The Arceus myth is actually based on a chinese creation myth.

Mew has nothing to do with it. >>;

As for how they're going to top the supreme creator?

I can see it all now: Deusaint (A Psychic/Ghost God PokéMon dwelling in the sky and commanding vast celestial legions of flying types). Lucifear (A Dark/Ghost Devil PokéMon dwelling in the core of the earth commanding vast demonic armies of fire-types). For aeons they have been amassing their strength, preparing their strike against each other in a war that will rage across the heaven and earth and destroy the universe in a clichéd armageddon-like display of power.

Riding as the heralds of the apocalypse are the four legendary centaurs (because ya gotta have horse-men somehow): Equwar (Steel-type, featuring more cannons and swords than could be good for it. And two huge lances on its sides. It posesses the ability Bloodlust, which sharply increases the foe's attack, but makes them confused!), Falomino (Ground, representing the barren earth, it is the world's most anorexic-looking equine, its ability reduces all stats of what faces it - YOU try fighting when you're hungry!), Pestaur (Poison-type, armed with the deadly Disease Cloud ability which instantly badly poisons the foe just by BEING there!) and lastly, Skullion (Ghost type, a skeletal Centaur surrounded by a grey misty outline, its very presence in battle has a chance to cause automatic fainting unless foiled by an ability or a special item, LoL EPIC!!!).

And As you can't have a good Revelations knockoff without some kind of Antichrist, we have the Fione-version of Lucifear, the pure-dark type Pentot, and its oposite number, fione-version of Deusaint, the pure-psychic type Cruxon (Which completes the holy Pokétrinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Goat, Arceus).

Also, Insert a few pantheonic legendaries for good measures - Beelzebite the Bug/Dark type, and Gabriarch the Fire/Psychic type, for one. I could come up with more angels and demons but my memory of Christian pantheon is kinda sketchy. They'd probably get some Shinto twist into them too and get redubbed anyway so why bother?

... And there'd be cherub and imp unobtainable mewannabes too. Just because I said so.

Lastly, to complete the air of madness, the main character's going to be slightly psychotic and the final form starters are all part-steel Biomechas of death with freaky cockpit like constructs in their heads.

PokéMon Genesis Evangelion: Heaven, Hell and coming soon after, the special Purgatory Edition! Coming Soon to an alternate reality near you!

Posted by: Suzuki May 10 2009, 11:41 AM

Well, I think that Mew came first, then Arceus. It does say that mew was the first, and when Arceus came along, it created Dialga and Palkia, which created the universe. It doesn't really say Arceus caame first. And for the 1st and 4th gen. I think that Arceus was just discovered when 4th gen came out. (Or Shinnoh was discovered, however you want to put it.)

Posted by: Pumpkin King May 10 2009, 11:48 AM

Following the in-game timeline, it would most definitely be Arceus. Mew is the first earthly Pokemon from which most, not all, Pokemon evolved from (Charles Darwin evolution, not level-up evolution). The exceptions of course would be Grimer, Muk, Mewtwo, Porygon, Porygon2, Porygon-Z, Castform, Shuppet, Banette and Deoxys. The Porygon family, Mewtwo and Castform are artificial, the Grimer family is pollution brought to life by the moon, the Shuppet family came from discarded toys and Deoxys was a genetic altering of a virus from outer space. The "heavenly" Pokemon would be Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf and Giratina since they were all created from Arceus who was created by some fluke in chaos that formed an egg. I'm confused about Jirachi since I believe it's mentioned in the creation story. It states that the "heavenly" Pokemon wished and matter came to be, or something to that effect. I think that's an allusion to Jirachi, which would make sense considering its longevity in its lifespan and its lengthy periods of rest. It must recover from granting such a strong wish. The three Hoenn Regi's also did not evolve from Mew, having come from their respective elements. I'm not so sure about Regigigas, though, but being the leader of the other Regi's, I think it can be assumed that it came into existence without Mew. Another controversial Pokemon is Celebi. Being able to travel through time, it may have a relation to Dialga. I also have some theories about Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Manaphy, Phione, Heatran, Entei, Suicune, Raikou, Ho-oh, Shaymin, Darkrai and Cresselia, but I have to go. Maybe I'll explain them another time.

Posted by: leafpool905 May 10 2009, 11:57 AM

QUOTE(Lorelei @ May 7 2009, 09:12 PM)

Posted by: Meezy May 10 2009, 12:34 PM

QUOTE(Flamer @ May 10 2009, 12:25 PM)

QUOTE(Lorelei @ May 7 2009, 09:12 PM)

Posted by: Flamer May 10 2009, 01:41 PM

QUOTE(Spearow @ May 10 2009, 05:35 PM)

Posted by: Pumpkin King May 10 2009, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(Flamer @ May 10 2009, 02:41 PM)

I like PKs way of sumirising things. Would like to hear your theroies about Groundon and all that lot sometime

Posted by: AOS May 10 2009, 01:54 PM

I am tired of hearing this crap.

Just putting it as simple as possible.

About Mew is a scientific theory, and about Arceus is just a myth just like Greek mythology.

Disagree with me all you want, Satoshi-san (creator of Pokémon, Satoshi Tajiri) is the one who will decide, and maybe reveal it in the future, or in the upcoming movie.

Posted by: Pumpkin King May 10 2009, 01:57 PM

QUOTE(AOS @ May 10 2009, 02:54 PM)

Posted by: Flamer May 10 2009, 02:00 PM

QUOTE(Pumpkin King @ May 10 2009, 07:57 PM)

QUOTE(AOS @ May 10 2009, 02:54 PM)

I am tired of hearing this crap.

Just putting it as simple as possible.

About Mew is a scientific theory, and about Arceus is just a myth just like Greek mythology.

So you're telling me that you can capture Aphrodite just like you can catch a monkey? If Arceus (in the game of course) was just a myth, it wouldn't be catchable. And am I the only one who thinks that science and religion can correspond?!

Posted by: darkmagition May 10 2009, 02:44 PM

I think mew... its more cuter that Arcues ..... and to you the truth Arcues has an odd shape

Posted by: Pumpkin King May 10 2009, 02:48 PM

QUOTE(darkmagition @ May 10 2009, 03:44 PM)

I think mew... its more cuter that Arcues ..... and to you the truth Arcues has an odd shape

Posted by: Dys Tuvai May 10 2009, 02:51 PM

Has it occured to you that perhaps the creature's existence has nothing to do with its so-called abilities?

Arceus, as a creature, exists, but that does not automatically mean that all the abilities attributed to it are also a solid fact. If that was the case, then people would still be throwing Salamanders into fire and thinking they'd survive it!

Humans are easily impressionable creatures. They see something they think is unusual or unnatural, attempt to explain it, and if they don't manage to? PRESTO. Divine intervention. If you ask me, to me it's just where people gave up thinking.

I would also like to point out that Arceus isn't the only creation myth lying around the Pokeverse. We've got the weather-trio myth about Hoenn, too, for example. Just like how there are various different mythologies on earth, there are different mythologies on the PokeMon world.

As for mew, yes, that's a THEORY that it is a common ancestor of PokeMon, but merely because they found common elements from all discovered PokeMon in its genetic code. Which is nice when you deal with pseudo-science like a lot of Gen1 did (however, they didn't really have scientific advisors and so a lot of what they wrote is complete and utter nonsense. Molecular composition of water on Vaporeon, indeed. What the hell. And do they even know what negative ions ARE?!) but when you take current research into consideration about OUR world you realize that a HELL of a lot of creatures have a lot of DNA in common. So where does that leave us?

Posted by: darkmagition May 11 2009, 12:06 PM

I kinda agree with Dys Tuvai

Posted by: AlanaMae May 11 2009, 12:16 PM

I don't really know..and I don't really care. XD

Posted by: FalconWolf May 12 2009, 01:18 AM

I agree that the Movies and the show constantly contradict what they put in the game. And the Movies and show contradict each other as well at times. Someone messed up somewhere.

I also agree about the different cultures and different beliefs. It makes sense that people from different areas would have different origin stories. Who's to say it happened those ways at all? It had to start somewhere, but it didn't have to be some Pokemon god that was responsible.

Posted by: AOS May 12 2009, 08:32 PM

QUOTE(Pumpkin King @ May 10 2009, 11:57 AM)

Posted by: Chrona May 15 2009, 09:31 AM

Mew was always theorized to be the first pokemon, and that it had all the DNA and all. Arceus is a myth that honestly speaking, makes no sense. It's said that he shaped the universe with his thousand arms. First of all, shaped =/= created, Mew could have just been floating around in the glob before he decided to make Arceus. Second, where are these "Thousand arms"? I don't see them. Why can it not learn TMs like Mega Punch?

The fact that this DNA thing is present in the latest pokedex (Which Arceus is also in) is proof enough that Mew came first

Posted by: misa acar May 15 2009, 10:07 AM

Acreus can be a god, but mew came first(and is better)!

Posted by: Dys Tuvai May 15 2009, 02:12 PM

No creation myths really make any sense. That's why they're so fascinating.

Arceus's myth is based off the Chinese myth of Pangu, the being that hatched out of the cosmic egg (which appeared from the swirling shapeless chaos before it), and separated the basic principles of Yin and Yang, fashioning them into the earth and the sky. (Supplemented by Time and Space in the Arceus Myth). After that he supposedly died and his body became various aspects of the world (Arceus did not die, but it did vanish off somewhere). The split into two and then into three is also a trend that appears in assorted eastern myths.

Arceus might actually also be a reference to Avalokiteśvara - which in Buddhism is either pictured with eleven heads and one thousand arms (the latter of which is mentioned in Arceus's flavor text) or in a white four-armed manifestation.

As for where its arms are now, it lost them in the process. Now it's Mostly Armless. (rimshot)

And as for Mew: The only generation so far that stated that scientists think it's an ancestor of PokeMon is the latest one. Before that entries claimed only that it has the genetic code of all pokemon - which is why it can learn every different move. However, as far as dex entries, a lot of Pure, Grade A Tauros-Excrement was carried overfrom Gen 1. Vaporeon is a splendid example. Cell composition being similar to water molecules. I'm sorry but these people don't know fuck about BASIC biology so I can't take them seriously. It's like they weren't even TRYING to make sense, and just used big words because it makes them sound cool.

It doesn't. It really doesn't.

... But why are we debating this anyway? Mew came first, because PokeMon is a fictional franchise created by people, and these people created Mew first. Only later when they ran out of ideas they came up with Arceus. XD

Posted by: thebomb99 May 15 2009, 02:14 PM

Mew

Posted by: Kashizzle May 23 2009, 06:36 AM

The way I see it, is that Arceus, Dialga, and Palkia are more like dieties, more than regular pokemon. Mew is considered a legendary because it's one-of-a-kind and is powerful.

I reckon that Mew was the first regular pokemon created, and is the being from which all other regular pokemon evolved from, or something. Maybe even some legendaries evolved from Mew..

Posted by: AquaFae Jun 3 2009, 10:39 PM

Pokemon is full of contradictions, really...

Posted by: xXseleneXx Jun 3 2009, 11:22 PM

Mew.
<3

Posted by: Osiris6 Jun 6 2009, 04:20 PM

i think Mew came first...because its 1st gen and because it could probably exist without a universe...

Posted by: Usagi Zakura Jun 6 2009, 04:35 PM

Mew.
Consider this: Mew is one of two pokèmon who knows transform and can thus change into every other pokèmon, so for all we know, what if Arceus in fact WAS a Mew, who transformed into into a god-like creature, ever other pokèmon can also be transformed/Evolved from the original Mew's children, but most of them, including Arceus lost their transformation ability over time (perhaps from staying in a form too long? Like the Animorphs? )
Also taken into consideration the myths and all that, Mew is a pretty playful Pokèmon, and since humans also supposedly evolved from them Mew may have been able to transform into a human too (doesn't another legendary do that? Latias or Latios I think? Never really saw that movie:B) and made up the whole myth about Arceus, Dialga and Palkia for the lulz, and then had some of its children transform into it to "confirm" the myth.

Posted by: Kisshu Jun 10 2009, 01:10 AM

Mew, 1st gen. came first.

Posted by: Sire Jun 10 2009, 07:29 PM

I'd argue that it depends on which of the writers you ask, actually. With each season/gen/ect, all of the people behind the scenes changed. Those who worked there first layed down that mew was the oldest pokemon, and those working in the 4th gen layed down that Arceus was older than the universe.

Which gives us a couple different options:


1. The writers who wrote in Arceus were full of nonsense, and didn't check their facts.

2. Arceus isn't truely a pokemon, so is older than mew, but mew's the first pokemon.

3. There were a lot of pokemon existing before the universe- and thus anything else, could exist, and being trippy and the like, so mew was around FIRST, but Arceus is really frakking old.

4. The writers were hoping no one would check.

Posted by: Pikachurin Jun 10 2009, 10:56 PM

Mew was born of the Nothing that surrounded Arceus's egg when the egg broke and the Nothing was punctured. Mew and Arceus were born at the same time, because of that. Together (or maybe not, perhaps Mew was just minding his own business) they created thebeings of Space, Time and Dimensions. After the Dragons (and thus after spatial and chronological dimensions, and their counterparts) came Weather: Earth, Sea, and the Sky. Volcanoes came into existance around this time as well, and the Guardian of Volcanoes was born to protect them.

Now, a World with nothing on it would be fairly boring, so Mew and Arceus decided to create beings. However, they knew that without Willpower, Thought and Emotion, the beings would be useless; thus Azelf, Uxie and Mesprit were created from the same egg. Mew had grand ideas for the World. Being the Ancestor of All Pokémon, he knew just how to create them, but he didn't have the strength to do so, even combined with the power of Arceus... they needed a Wish, and thus Jirachi was born.

Jirachi's Wish allowed Mew and Arceus to create a being from which they could create a Double of any being they created, meaning they only had to create half as many as they would have needed to otherwise. The unique properties of this being meant that it could divide itself indefinitely. Mew could also Transfrom himself, but only long enough to allow the new being to create two of the transformation.

Soon, the World was populated with many beings, but some were more powerful than others. The Dogs and Birds stood out above all the other beings, and they were unruly and proud because of this. Arceus saw the need to impose order on the Dogs, and thus created their Masters, the Guardians of the Sky and Sea. The Birds, however, were willing to comply with Arceus's demands, and thus they were given no Master but Mew.

By this time, Dialga was becoming tired of keeping Time straight. Arceus and Mew took pity on him and thus Celebi, his helper, was created.

This is also the time that Mew decided that new beings were needed in the World. He proposed his idea to Arceus, how initially refused, but eventually agreed. Thus, humans were created. Because of the humans' Willpower, Thoughts and Emotions, Dreams (and thus, Nightmares) were born as well.

The humans co-existed with the beings that had been placed there before them, treating them as equals. Because they were peaceful, they called them pocket monsters, and many of the ones that lived close to the humans were small enough to fit in a pocket.

However, things soon turned bad. Even with the guidance of Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf, the humans soon turned violent. Their conflicting beliefs almost led them to destroy the World and its order, but Giratina created the Distortion World to protect them from themselves.

Soon after this War, the being of Gratitude was born from the humans' apologetic feelings. The War had advanced the humans' society, though. The now knew how to mine things from the Ground and fashion things from Ice and Iron. Because of these Elements' importance, they were given Guardians, and the Guardians were given a King, because Mew and Arceus were busy repairing the damage to the World and the Distortion World.

Meanwhile, the Dogs had been behaving themselves, and so Mew and Arceus allowed them to give the humans a gift. Raikou chose to give the humans electricity. Not wanting to be outdone, Suicune gave them the ability to refine water and create electricity with it. Entei was also jealous and allowed the humans to harness fire's power... and create electricity with it. Ho-oh and Lugia also gave gifts: precious, rare metals, and beautiful prisms and crystals.

The humans were happy with the Dogs' gifts, and the gifts of their Masters. They created things that used the electricity they were given. However, some of the humans still harbored ill feelings for the pocket monsters-- the Pokémon, as the name had been contracted to. From these feelings sprung a Ghost that could possess some of the things they had made. The Ghost was named Rotom, the reverse of the word for the item called motor.


8D
And that's the end lol. PM me if you need help identifying/want to know the Capitalized Pokémon.
Actually, I think I'll keep writing this and post it all on my FanFiction.net account... It's Heinakuu.

Posted by: DanAndLiamPokemonRanchers Jun 14 2009, 07:18 AM

I think mew came first as he is said to be the ancestor of pokemon. He then created Arceus who created the physical universe and Mew created the living.

Posted by: Illithian Jun 15 2009, 06:49 PM

Arceus is God. He created the universe, the stars, the environment, the world. He then proceeded to make Mew, who created all other Pokemon except for Deoxys, Jirachi, and Rayquaza; Deoxys came from another planet and was born of a virus, Jirachi is the embodiment of a dead star, and Rayquaza was created by Arceus to guard his Earth.

Just some random fake pokemon myths.

Posted by: Roxas123 Jun 17 2009, 08:38 PM

I think that Arceus created the Legendary Trio, and that he can create pokemon (It's been semi-confirmed in the HG SS event) So that means that he could have created mew. Or mew could have been around before Arceus. There just isn't enough evidence to really justify each legend/theory/myth as they both claim to be true.

Posted by: bookist Jul 10 2009, 11:25 PM

arceus is a myth. Mew has been scientifically proven to have the DNA of all pokemon (implying it was first).

Posted by: ChocolateFrostedSugarBombs Jul 10 2009, 11:44 PM

I believe that Arceus came first.
Mew may have the DNA of all pokemon, but that doesn't mean that it came before the rest of them.

Posted by: Neko Wolf San Jul 11 2009, 03:02 PM

Are you people forgeting who really came first? ----->


... But seriously, this is what I think; Mew and Arceus could have appeared at the same time. Arceus created Dialga, Palkia, and the lake trio, so time, space, and matter was created. Then Arceus created the world and then afterward he stopped there, Mew began to make all the pokemon there is (explaining how Mew has the DNA of every single pokemon.)

However, maybe Arceus appeared first and then created Mew so that it would make some pokemon, but nothing was ever meantioned about that. Didn't there use to be more than one Mew?


I really can't make up my mind.

Posted by: Drigon100 Jul 11 2009, 03:19 PM

Arcios came first he created everything...LOLZ

Posted by: Secret170193 Jul 16 2009, 11:32 AM

I'd say Mew, it seems to make more sense.

Posted by: PowerChao Jul 16 2009, 07:21 PM

Honestly when I saw the title of this topis I thought it was going to be the pokemon or the egg thing. But the way you put it the way you did it seems that mew would be first, but what if mew was the first pokemon in the new universe? Then arceus would be first!

Posted by: Lily Lilac Jul 22 2009, 11:30 AM

QUOTE(jumiofdiamonds @ May 7 2009, 12:51 PM)

Posted by: lu1z Aug 1 2009, 05:10 PM

In the first movie they say that mew created everything and was the original one because he had dna of every poke
but Arceus is the God of pokemons and the one that created the Universe.

So this is my theory:That mew is the pokemon that Arceus created to give life to every pokemon while he was busy creating time and space and other stuff

So i think Arceus came first

Posted by: Kari Kari Aug 2 2009, 10:43 PM

QUOTE(Flamer @ May 10 2009, 11:25 AM)

Arcues. Personally, I think Mew was created by Arcues becuase he was too lazy to go around creating all the Pokemon himself. This would explain why Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon, whilst keeping Arcues status as the god of all Pokemon intact. Afterall, if Arcues got Dialga, Palkia and all that lot to make space, time etc for him, then it makes sense he would have got something else to make all the Pokemon as well.

Brings up the question of who created all the humans in the game though If Pokemon created the universe and everything in it, then it stands to reason that a Pokemon created humans too, no?

Posted by: DareRiver Aug 12 2009, 12:35 PM

I think that Mew came first and started making all of the Pokemon, including Arceus, because it was said that Mew has the genes of all Pokemon and gave birth to them. Arceus was just simply one of the ones that was born before the universe was made, and then I guess Mew gave birth to Palkia and Dialga to make the universe and time. It makes perfect sense in my opinion. THUS LEADING TO THE BIG BANG THEORY! XXDDD That would sort of make sense too if you think about it!

Posted by: SalamenceGirl Aug 13 2009, 12:44 PM

I believe Mew came first.It has the DNA of all Pokemon, it can use all the Pokemon moves and finally Mew was introduced in the first Generation while Arceus on fourth

Posted by: ic4usr Aug 13 2009, 11:46 PM

both have some good points
Mew learning every possible move while arceus cant but arceus can turn into every single type with the plates
but i say mew because that arceus needs the plates to reign,

Posted by: Azure Butterfly Aug 14 2009, 11:00 AM

Arceus came into being. The sheer amount of fail that eminated from its body began to overcome the universe. Before a disaster could happen, Mew was created in order to keep balance because floating pink kitten goddess is osm.

Also, Rhydon is the real first, it just allows those two to think they are.

Posted by: Nes Aug 14 2009, 01:30 PM

I say that Arceus came first and created the universe, the trios, and eventually mew.

Posted by: Majy Oct 5 2009, 07:05 PM

If you want to get logical. The newer gens were discovered in the game. So Arceus would have been first since he created every thing. Then Dialga and Palkia. I'm sure Mew came in there along the way some were. Giritina was there around the time of Arceus though.

Posted by: berry314 Oct 5 2009, 07:20 PM

I think Arceus came first, created Diagla, Palkia and Garitina, got lazy, and created mew to create the other pokemon.

Either that, or mew was the result of every single pokemon breeding with each other/ a ditto. Or maybe two dittos breeding.

Posted by: eevee64 Nov 17 2009, 08:36 PM

Mew definately came first coz i just dont like arceus and mew is awesome. If arceus came first it should have been in first generation and not the most newest pokemon created.

Posted by: Chu Chu Jan 3 2010, 01:43 PM

ok heres what i think. mew created every pokemon including arceus and excluding the dragon trio. arceus created the universe and the dragon trio. so basicaly mew created a pokemon that created some pokemon... if you get wat i mean

Posted by: Chu Chu Jan 3 2010, 01:43 PM

ok heres what i think. mew created every pokemon including arceus and excluding the dragon trio. arceus created the universe and the dragon trio. so basicaly mew created a pokemon that created some pokemon... if you get wat i mean edit: snap. double post. ignore this completley

Posted by: LiteSpeed Jan 8 2010, 05:07 PM

Mew.For gods sake Arceus cant even learn an attack having to do with hands yet he somehow made the universe with his 1000 hands?Mew handed down certain moves to certain pokemon and arceus was made by mew first.

Posted by: Senri825 Jan 9 2010, 07:42 PM

Well for me I think that it could be possible that Arceus and Mew were born at the same time. That feels like the fastest answer since we really have no idea who came first. And since they were the only two beings existing they both created the rest of the world together but Arceus using tons of his energy must have gone to a deep sleep while Mew continues to watch over the pokemon world.

Posted by: Synchronise Jan 9 2010, 07:52 PM

I tend to think that both Mew and Arceus exist in separate schools of thought. Mew exists in the evolutionary school of thought, where science is a bit more held as true, and Mew's cells were used to form every single Pokemon after that. Conversely, Arceus and his appendages (that would be Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina) are in the creationism school of thought, where Arceus formed space and time, as well as their antitheses, and created guardians to watch over them and give them further form. In Mew's school, Arceus couldn't have existed before Mew, as Mew is the origin of all species. In Arceus's school, Mew couldn't have existed before Arceus, because there was literally nothing before time-space began to exist, in its four dimensions.

I actually don't think that the legendaries from DPPt are in the same sort of Pokemon. Besides, Mew can't learn EVERY move, just every Technical Machine and Hidden Machine. She still has a set list of moves, and I think perhaps it's her cells that give Pokemon the ability to learn these extra moves. I just get this feeling that Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina just aren't "Pokemon" in the traditional sense.

Posted by: alex554 Jan 9 2010, 08:13 PM

mew because it was made 1st

Posted by: Rocky Raccoon Jan 12 2010, 06:51 PM

Mew because its number 151, and Arceus is number 493, i think, I hate the fourth generation pokemon.

Posted by: Eniguma Jan 16 2010, 09:18 AM

Well, Mew is said to be the ancestor pokémon, whereas Arceus is said to be the creator. This seems like the god-evolution debate. I believe that Arceus came first, creating the universe. I think that Mew may have been the first species that Arceus made, seeing as how they nearly died out.

Posted by: Marcus Felding Jan 24 2010, 11:48 AM

Mew was the first manmade pokemon. Therefore, Arceus is the first pokemon to truly exist.

Posted by: Zaloog Jan 24 2010, 09:00 PM

Alright I believe Arceus came first and then we have a sort of Greek idea of creation come into play.

Arceus came first and created the world with in a void. When the world came to be so did Mew. Then through Mew and Arceus you get Dialga and Palkia. Dialga and Palkia then create time and space where Arceus places the world. Then on from himself Arceus creates the Lake Trio who give the planet life. Then naturally with the creation of Life Death is born in the form of Giratina. While Mew at this time makes Ditto. Now Giratina being the opposing forces to the Lake trio is constaly antagonizing them until Dialga and Palkia step creating the Reverse world and giving it to Giratina to rule which would explain why in the movie the Reverse world is empty it's ruled by the personification of death. After creating the lake trio from himself Arceus falls into his slumber deep with in the planet. When the Life created by the trio comes in contact with the sleeping Arceus the elements take form. This in turns creates Groudon, Kyogure, the Regias, etc. It doesn't take long for Groudon and Kyogure begin duking it out which shapes most of the world as it is now. Now before Rayquaza comes between the two. The Trio trying to keep hope alive fearing Groudon and Kyogure are becoming a to much of a problem and will eventually ruin everything get help from Palkia to make the Flower Paradise outside of the normal flow of time so that Groudon and Kyogure can't touch it. The creation of paradise and combination of the Trio and Palkia's powers creates Shaymin and Celibi, which explains Celibi's time powers. Now Mew and Ditto at this time have mated a couple times which because of Ditto's DNA and Mew being one of the first can never result in the creation of a second Mew or Ditto instead random sequences occur in the child's DNA creating the early non Legandary Pokemon, and because Mew made Ditto Mew is the Ancestor of most Pokemon.

That's my Theory.

Posted by: Unholy Shadow Jan 25 2010, 02:11 AM

QUOTE(Marcus Felding @ Jan 24 2010, 08:48 AM)

Mew was the first manmade pokemon. Therefore, Arceus is the first pokemon to truly exist.

Posted by: gabite92 Feb 9 2010, 07:53 PM

should of come first because all pokemon DNA came from ,but is the head pokemon as described in its pokedex information.So its still a mystery.

Posted by: Chu Chu Feb 21 2010, 11:26 PM

QUOTE(dark thunder @ May 6 2009, 07:29 PM)

Posted by: Unholy Shadow Feb 21 2010, 11:37 PM

QUOTE(Chu Chu @ Feb 21 2010, 08:26 PM)

QUOTE(dark thunder @ May 6 2009, 07:29 PM)

and mew was made before arcesu(mew was made in the first gen. arceus was made in the 4th gen.)

i say mew since you dont necasarilly have to have a universe to exist(or atleast mew doesnt)



ps: why is this named "which came first, arcues or shaymin apparently it should be mew

the generation they came out in has nothing to do with who came first. the pokedex order is just who was discovered first which is y mewtwo is before mew. however i do agree mew was first. heres my theory: mew created arceus. arceus made dialga who made time, palkia who made space, and giritina who made and according to the pokedex was banished to the reverse world. arceus also created a universe where mew created all the other pokemon. then regigigas pulled the continents in place kyogre made oceans ect. but that leaves me with one question. who made mew? or (for those who disagree) the first pokemon. did it just appear? o.o

Posted by: Unskilled78 Feb 24 2010, 01:35 AM

I think that the pokedex is the collation of legends, myths, heresay, and the rough analysis of tween-aged children. Arceus is not the deity responsible for creating the world, Diaglia and Palkia do not control time and space, and Mew [/i]does not[/i] contain the DNA of every single species of pokemon, any more than, say, Twilight is an ideal romance to emulate. Goodness, the Pokemon world itself makes no sense. They have working matter-to-data (& storage space for an entire organism) technology in a device that is about the size of a baseball. I'm pretty sure that violates the 1 bit/molecule that is the hypothetical limit of nanotechnology. The pokemon world has no visible infastructure. No supermarkets, no giant vats of "Soylent Green", no real agriculture. It's like a movie set. There is no real depth to the buildings.

Posted by: Xal Feb 24 2010, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(Unskilled78 @ Feb 24 2010, 06:35 AM)

Posted by: Unholy Shadow Feb 24 2010, 02:38 PM

QUOTE(Unskilled78 @ Feb 23 2010, 10:35 PM)

Posted by: IceColdGlaceon Feb 24 2010, 04:19 PM

I'm probably more inclined to say Mew... And i'm leaning more towards Zaloog's train of thought because it seems the most logical.

Posted by: AnimeEVIL Feb 24 2010, 05:50 PM

I bet arceus exsited before mew because on my diamond the arceus summary says "ARCEUS shaped the universe with it's 100 arms" or something like that. I know that mew was made first on the TV shows before arceus was vs. 8D

Posted by: Fangclaw Feb 24 2010, 05:57 PM

Mew, cause she created arceus and gave arceus the power to create pokemon. Then they created all the pokemon together.(Arceus is why new pokemon keep appearing, and mew doesn't like it)

Posted by: Fangclaw Feb 24 2010, 06:00 PM

Mew, cause she created arceus and gave arceus the power to create pokemon. Then they created all the pokemon together.(Arceus is why new pokemon keep appearing, and mew doesn't like it)

Posted by: Mr Cadju Feb 28 2010, 10:18 AM

MEW, no explanations required.

Posted by: Lord Cybertron Mar 1 2010, 08:45 PM

Mew created the universe. Started working, got tired, created Arceus, gave him enough power to finish creating, went to sleep until they made Mewtwo. He battled Mewtwo, lost, went back to sleep. Woke up later to command Arceus to stop making more Pokemon, Arceus said no, called Diagla ad Registeel to freeze time for Mew and take him back to Kanto. Over and over again.

Posted by: Chu Chu Mar 1 2010, 11:32 PM

QUOTE(Lord Cybertron @ Mar 1 2010, 08:45 PM)

Posted by: Unholy Shadow Mar 2 2010, 12:37 AM

QUOTE(Lord Cybertron @ Mar 1 2010, 05:45 PM)

Posted by: batmon Mar 21 2010, 11:26 AM

Some people over analyze this game way too much, you guys have to realize some of Nintendo's descriptions make no sense when it comes to the pokemon. And IMO the Tv show/Movie isn't cannon to the game, it's just something to make more money off.

Posted by: TheEmptiness Mar 21 2010, 12:10 PM

Mew because it's first gen. All the other gens insist on messing up what first gen started.

Posted by: Chu Chu Mar 26 2010, 11:54 AM

QUOTE(Unholy Shadow @ Feb 21 2010, 11:37 PM)

QUOTE(Chu Chu @ Feb 21 2010, 08:26 PM)

QUOTE(dark thunder @ May 6 2009, 07:29 PM)

and mew was made before arcesu(mew was made in the first gen. arceus was made in the 4th gen.)

i say mew since you dont necasarilly have to have a universe to exist(or atleast mew doesnt)



ps: why is this named "which came first, arcues or shaymin apparently it should be mew

the generation they came out in has nothing to do with who came first. the pokedex order is just who was discovered first which is y mewtwo is before mew. however i do agree mew was first. heres my theory: mew created arceus. arceus made dialga who made time, palkia who made space, and giritina who made and according to the pokedex was banished to the reverse world. arceus also created a universe where mew created all the other pokemon. then regigigas pulled the continents in place kyogre made oceans ect. but that leaves me with one question. who made mew? or (for those who disagree) the first pokemon. did it just appear? o.o

...which makes no sense since they cloned Mewtwo from Mew. Technically, they'd have to know about Mew to make Mewtwo!

Posted by: Kajiek Apr 8 2010, 12:16 AM

Silly peoples

The universe started with a few hundred Dittos or Mews, and all but one used Transform to make all the other Pokemon, and then, though breeding/getting frozen in morph, created the poke.

So Mew came first

Posted by: ARCEUS Apr 10 2010, 02:12 AM

Ok, my turn >D Now, arceus's legend says it created the universe yet mew created pokemon. BUT, if arceus wasn't first why would it be called the alpha pokemon? And mew the new species pokemon? From what I was last told alpha means A, 1, leader or first.
And it goes: arceus from egg, arceus creates lake and dragon trio but nothing is said about mew in there, if it did, that would make things a lot easier. My first thought was it was a joint effort, they both came from the first egg with powers to do different things but arceus is titled "alpha" So my current thought is arceus.

Posted by: Koritsi Apr 10 2010, 04:27 AM

I stopped caring about the legends of pokémon since the 3rd gen. after all the things of pokémon shaping the world and what not. Let's see what crazy shit they come up on the 5th gen.

Posted by: Bon Jovi Apr 10 2010, 09:00 AM

I think Mew probably came first...
It's first generation.. carries the genes of all pokemon.. Ect.

Posted by: Lin Keui Swampert Apr 10 2010, 03:46 PM

Obviously Bulbasaur.

Posted by: IceBlader98 May 4 2010, 03:00 PM

Well (Note: I am atheist) Thats like asking who gave birth to god. But I suppose Maybe they were both first?

Posted by: Lady 124 May 29 2010, 10:45 PM

mew

Posted by: DharSii Jun 5 2010, 11:26 AM

In all of the pokedex entries that suggest Mew is the ancestor of all pokemon it just says that scientists began to BELIEVE Mew was the ancestor of all pokemon because it could learn all of the moves. The pokedex specifically says, however, that Arceus created the universe so, Arceus came first.

Posted by: Reyo Jun 5 2010, 06:17 PM

I am a Pokemon atheist. I do not believe in silly dieties like "Arceus" or "Mew".

Your question offends me.

Posted by: Royolis Jun 5 2010, 06:53 PM

I think they both were around for like ever, but Arceus made the world and Mew gave it life possibly.

Posted by: Chu Chu Jun 29 2010, 07:16 PM

QUOTE(Royolis @ Jun 5 2010, 04:53 PM)

Posted by: Chairine Jul 6 2010, 07:25 AM

I say it's Mew. Because Mew had the DNA of all Pokemon, including that horse-like Arceus. Arceus' discovery was only recent, and Mew was known for a long time because of its adorableness. I wouldn't think at all that GameFreak would change what they said before. And I really believe that Mew was really the rea ancestor.

Posted by: Kradiocan Jul 16 2010, 06:30 PM

MEW is da one! Then again, some of my friends say it went Ho-oh->Mew->Arceus->The other Legendaries->everyone else. But that's a different topic.

Posted by: stormthehouse Jul 21 2010, 01:46 AM

I say Mew was the first pokemon and Arceus just got Celebi to send him back in time to before mew!
My logic is impenetrable, bow before its absolute impenetrableness of logic!!!!

Posted by: steelTitan Jul 24 2010, 06:01 PM

Technically Mew came first because Pokemon Red and Blue were made before Pokemon DPPt

Posted by: CryptoG12 Jul 26 2010, 12:36 PM

Arceus. My theory is that Arceus created all the legendaries excluding Mewtwo and Regirock/ice/steel. The whole "mew has every pokemons dna" argument is out because Arceus is, as far as the general public in Pokeworld knows, a myth. Heck, Arceus might not even have DNA. I'm not even touching the "Mew came first because it's first gen" argument.

Posted by: Chu Chu Jul 30 2010, 07:28 PM

Generation=order discovered=/= order created

Why cant people get that? Still, I go for Mew. It's said that without Mew no Pokemon would esist, Arceus falling under the category of Pokemon.

Posted by: Kacee Jul 31 2010, 02:45 AM

This is a complicated discussion, but I say Mew. Mew was supposed to be the first pokemon, Arceus wasn't supposed to exist. How Arceus came to be is a mystery.

Posted by: Darcy Wing Aug 30 2010, 06:11 AM

I think it was Arceus, the background story of the Pokemon world goes like this:

Read this if you want (click to showhide)

Posted by: DTibbs Sep 7 2010, 10:17 AM

I'd have to say Mew, as I like to pretend that Arceus doesn't exist. It's a poor excuse of a "god" looks wise.

Posted by: Verinia Mar 5 2011, 10:37 PM

I'd say Mew, because all Pokémon came from the cute cat.

Posted by: SnivyCap Apr 3 2011, 05:35 PM

Unfortunately, I have to say Arceus. As I've said in another topic like this, Arceus made the universe and Mew, and Mew did everything else... Although, now that I think about it, Arceus AND Mew might have been the Pokemon who made the universe. By this I mean together.

Posted by: Shinzu Apr 3 2011, 05:43 PM

-Facepalm- Arceus came first, created everything else, Mew was created and he then evolved into every one of the actual Pokemon. At least, that's my opinion what what the games say.

Posted by: MegaSinnohChampionEmpoleon May 16 2011, 08:54 PM

Can you do 151-493? 151 is Mew's dex number and 493 is Arceus', so yeah.

Posted by: okpo Jun 6 2011, 08:24 AM

Arceus, mew is not a god pokemon

Posted by: Zekrom Master Jun 6 2011, 10:04 AM

Mew.
It was in the first gen, while Arceus was in the forth.

Posted by: Detective Platypus Feb 18 2012, 04:01 PM

been skimming the thread, and I'd like to point something out that I didn't see mentioned: In the pokedex, Mew is listed as a "New Spiecies Pokemon" and Arceus as an "Alpha Pokemon." Mew can learn every TM, while Arceus can be any type (this was previously stated). The pokedex data for Mew in Black/White (most current, that's why I'm using it) states "ecause it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon," and for Arceus "It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world."

Mew is representative of life, which is constantly evolving and becoming new. Mew, unlike Arceus, is not so much a "creator" as a beginning, the same way that early common ancestors of all life on earth are.
Arceus is much more focused on non-living things, like types for example. Remember information on Arceus is supposed to be mythological, so I would say that coming from nothing, then shaping the world would be more akin to something like the big bang.

So, to answer the question of the thread in my opinion: If you're considering the myths surrounding Arceus to be based in truth then it would be the first, before Mew. I don't think you can group Arceus in with other pokemon if you're following the whole Mew is life and DNA and all that kind of concept, because it is more of like a god, or a separate entity.

Also, as for the generation gap argument: As more generations were made, the text from the games leads one to believe that each generation is in fact not newly discovered pokemon, but pokemon of a different region of the world, explaining why there would be some older gen pokemon here and there in newer gen games. Togepi was a "new discovery," as was Mew I believe but on the whole that was not the case.