[X] My Assistant

[Swordsalmon]

Well, I was reading the news and came upon this horrible and disheartening article. Which led me to make this topic...I hope this is considered serious enough for a debate.

Horrible things such as this, I think could be prevented with more education on breeding in schools. However, there's been a controversy on whether this should be a course in schools. I have to support teaching young teens about pregnancy and prevention. Though this might increase the amount of young intercourse (Which I, morally think isn't right, but whatever), allowing these teens to know prevention could prevent more tragedies. If more promiscuous teens is the after-effect of lowering infantcide and abortions, I think it's worth it.

Sorry if this topic isn't "Debate"-worthy, but it's something I would like to discuss, considering how important it might become in the future.

[Skins T]

Then explain me. Halfway through 19 and still holding on to my 'v' card. You saying that to me is tantamount to a morbidly obese person...well...telling ME that it's "oh so difficult" to lose weight. Hormones are not that difficult to control, you just need a respectable amount of self control.

Just because you're a virgin doesn't make you better at self control than someone who isn't.

You've never had sex before, so how can you say that they're so easy to control? Have you been in a situation where you could've had sex but chose not to?

Not everyone is you, has your beliefs, your morals, or your feelings towards sex. Don't judge people, please, for doing it by saying they have no self control because they chose to do the deed. For some people, it isn't so easy to control those urges, and a majority of the time it's nothing to do with weakness.

(Also, your obese reference - some people are obese because of genetic reasons, so for them, it IS extremely hard for them to loose weight, just an fyi)

Do you understand the premise behind abstinence? The whole point of it is controlling yourself enough NOT to have sex in order to avoid getting someone pregnant, or catching a disease.

Not true. There are many reasons people choose to obstinate, including those reasons, religious reasons, sexual preference reasons, sexuality reasons... ect ect.

At the exact moment you have sex on your wedding night, you can say that you abstained, and I know of several people who can say that.

So are you saying that people are only abstinent if they have waited until marriage? :/

Also, there's no such thing as "it has been proven time and time again" because...well first off, how do you know? Are YOU an example? Did you hold a scientific study in which a random, yet large groups of students were given a survey? Did you have them volunteer for a live study where x group of virgins were closely monitored after taking an abstinence pledge? Has it been done already? And secondly, how do you explain me? Am I an outlier? I shouldn't be ignored because I don't fit the 99.7% that's supposed to fit within 3 standard deviations of the mean (or 89% given an irregular histogram)? I can infer that way more than .3% of the population has control over their urges.

Go to any school that teaches abstinence only education if you don't believe survey statistics, and tell me how many of them are pregnant, or have left due to pregnancy, or in the case of the men, have left to help pay for their babies by taking jobs.

Lastly, what justification is that for displaying your knowledge in public (in a less than clever manner I might say) at someone else's expense?

Meaning what exactly? That I'm not allowed to disagree with someone's point of view based on my own knowledge?

What education!

I have the sneaking suspicion that you, and you alone went through an experience of sex, regretted it, and then decided to put all of the blame on your teachers for teaching abstinence instead of god knows what would have kept you from having sex. If such is the case, then I'm sorry, but THEY are not to blame for your weak self control. If someone like ME can keep their penis in check, it's obviously possible.

*cracks up*

I'm a virgin, idiot, and it has absolutely nothing to do with abstinence. I simply didn't find someone I liked enough to do the deed with.

My sexual education was second to none, also. I was taught from age 10 up until 18 about sexual education, every year, at a CATHOLIC high school, and not ONCE did I hear a whisper of 'abstinence only'. It was only mentioned as another option, of which the teacher laughed at, along with the class, whenever mentioned. So if they can teach it, and teach it well, then every school should be able to.

I'm sorry if I ranted a bit and sound like a dick, but this strikes a nerve with me, given how easy it is for high school kids to ream someone for choosing to wait until marriage.

People have sex for all a manner of reasons. Just as it is a personal choice to wait until marriage, it is also a personal choice to not wait as well, and it shouldn't be shameful to do so no matter what you choose. I have friends who have chosen to wait until marriage for a variety of reasons, some religious orientated, some fear orientated, or some simply because that is how they feel. I wouldn't rib someone for their choice on that.

On that note however, you seem to come across as someone who has it in for people who don't choose to wait, for whatever reasons they had. I suspect bullying, but I'll abstain from guessing further.

This post has been edited by Skins T: Sep 30 2011, 03:06 AM

[Reyo]

Then explain me. Halfway through 19 and still holding on to my 'v' card. You saying that to me is tantamount to a morbidly obese person...well...telling ME that it's "oh so difficult" to lose weight. Hormones are not that difficult to control, you just need a respectable amount of self control.

Just because you're a virgin doesn't make you better at self control than someone who isn't.

I fail to see where I said that. I can see where it's implied, but that wasn't the point of my post.

You've never had sex before, so how can you say that they're so easy to control? Have you been in a situation where you could've had sex but chose not to?

The point in abstinence is you don't have sex until you are married to the one you love. The moment you have sex outside the bounds of marriage, you are no longer abstaining. Sure, after you have sex you can choose to not have any more sex until marriage, but it's not really "abstaining" in the true sense of the word.

Not everyone is you, has your beliefs, your morals, or your feelings towards sex. Don't judge people, please, for doing it by saying they have no self control because they chose to do the deed. For some people, it isn't so easy to control those urges, and a majority of the time it's nothing to do with weakness.

You DO know that's exactly the point I was making to YOU, right? You may have failed at abstaining, but in saying that it never works you're making HUGE assumptions on the peers you have. A lot of people have chosen abstinence and are still with it, so yes...it works.

(Also, your obese reference - some people are obese because of genetic reasons, so for them, it IS extremely hard for them to loose weight, just an fyi)

Taking an example meant to simplify the point of the comment, and trying to turn it into a separate argument doesn't make an argument.

Do you understand the premise behind abstinence? The whole point of it is controlling yourself enough NOT to have sex in order to avoid getting someone pregnant, or catching a disease.

Not true. There are many reasons people choose to obstinate, including those reasons, religious reasons, sexual preference reasons, sexuality reasons... ect ect.

So are you saying that people are only abstinent if they have waited until marriage? :/

www.thefreedictionary.com/abstain

1. To refrain from something by one's own choice: abstain from traditional political rhetoric. See Synonyms at refrain1.
2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/abstinence

1.
forbearance from any indulgence of appetite, especially from the use of alcoholic beverages: total abstinence.
2.
any self-restraint, self-denial, or forbearance.
3.
Economics . the conserving of current income in order to build up capital or savings.
4.
the state of being without a drug, as alcohol or heroin, on which one is dependent.

At the exact moment you have sex on your wedding night, you can say that you abstained, and I know of several people who can say that.

In today's environment of social evolution, the term "abstinence" reflects one's intend to abstain from the act of sex until marriage keeping the traditional definition of the word to heart in that "to abstain" is to refrain yourself, willingly, from an act. The second you commit the act, you are no longer restraining yourself, and are therefore no longer, by definition, abstaining. THAT is the point of what I said, not that people only abstain for a singular reason (which I never even implied).

Also, there's no such thing as "it has been proven time and time again" because...well first off, how do you know? Are YOU an example? Did you hold a scientific study in which a random, yet large groups of students were given a survey? Did you have them volunteer for a live study where x group of virgins were closely monitored after taking an abstinence pledge? Has it been done already? And secondly, how do you explain me? Am I an outlier? I shouldn't be ignored because I don't fit the 99.7% that's supposed to fit within 3 standard deviations of the mean (or 89% given an irregular histogram)? I can infer that way more than .3% of the population has control over their urges.

Go to any school that teaches abstinence only education if you don't believe survey statistics, and tell me how many of them are pregnant, or have left due to pregnancy, or in the case of the men, have left to help pay for their babies by taking jobs.

Let's see, at my old high school? 0%
At the high school before that...0%
At the charter school I went to after traditional high school......0% (then again, there really was no "health class" there).

I'm sorry if where you live is a bad neighborhood and the local pickings can't keep their legs shut population is composed of horndogs, but you're making, again, an assumption on a much much MUCH larger population that I know you've witnessed.

Now at the school my mom was the school nurse for, there WERE pregnancies, but that was contributed to the poverty of the area causing apathy in the student population...and yes, I believe the curriculum for sex was more advanced than "just abstain".

Lastly, what justification is that for displaying your knowledge in public (in a less than clever manner I might say) at someone else's expense?

Meaning what exactly? That I'm not allowed to disagree with someone's point of view based on my own knowledge?

No, I'm saying you sounded like a complete ASS at the expense of someone who was obviously successful in finding a means of avoiding STDs and pregnancy. There were at least a dozen ways to disagree with the guy without snarling at him from behind your teeth.

What education!

I have the sneaking suspicion that you, and you alone went through an experience of sex, regretted it, and then decided to put all of the blame on your teachers for teaching abstinence instead of god knows what would have kept you from having sex. If such is the case, then I'm sorry, but THEY are not to blame for your weak self control. If someone like ME can keep their penis in check, it's obviously possible.

*cracks up*

I'm a virgin, idiot, and it has absolutely nothing to do with abstinence. I simply didn't find someone I liked enough to do the deed with.

Oh good, you're a virgin. so tell me, how many STDs have you caught? How many phone calls have you received in reference to a one night stand, or girlfriend ending in pregnancy? Tell me of your emotional level in reference to any feelings of regret you may have in reference to having made the decision to have sex "before you were ready"?

And lastly, are you really basing personal choice on the decisions made by other people?

My sexual education was second to none, also. I was taught from age 10 up until 18 about sexual education, every year, at a CATHOLIC high school, and not ONCE did I hear a whisper of 'abstinence only'. It was only mentioned as another option, of which the teacher laughed at, along with the class, whenever mentioned. So if they can teach it, and teach it well, then every school should be able to.

OH...so it's not the lesson...it's the teacher...that doesn't help your point.

I'm sorry if I ranted a bit and sound like a dick, but this strikes a nerve with me, given how easy it is for high school kids to ream someone for choosing to wait until marriage.

People have sex for all a manner of reasons. Just as it is a personal choice to wait until marriage, it is also a personal choice to not wait as well, and it shouldn't be shameful to do so no matter what you choose. I have friends who have chosen to wait until marriage for a variety of reasons, some religious orientated, some fear orientated, or some simply because that is how they feel. I wouldn't rib someone for their choice on that.

Ok, really? This again? Give me a direct quote where I said "People are not allowed to have sex ever because it is evil and wrong!"

On that note however, you seem to come across as someone who has it in for people who don't choose to wait, for whatever reasons they had. I suspect bullying, but I'll abstain from guessing further.

No, I have it out for people who 1) Base personal preference on the actions, or inaction of others, and not their own experience, 2) base a generalized statistic on observations of a much much MUCH smaller population, 3) have sex, and then complain relentlessly about various sex related problems. My roommate and his girlfriend will ask for the room on occasion for "massages" and I let them. I just play Dead Space or Assassin's Creed on my xbox until they finish. I don't care if you have sex. Now if he were to approach me and say "I think *girlfriend* may be pregnant" I'd say "Congratulations" and then ask if it was intentional. If it wasn't, I'd ask if any contraceptive was used. If no, I'd call him a dumbshit and offer names for the baby. If they decide to abort, I'll still be his friend and roommate, but tell him that it's not a very responsible decision given that he was smart enough to KNOW the consequences of his actions and choices. I would do this as calmly and as logically as possible and not pursue the point further than a small discussion because I respect him. I also realize that it would not really be my problem to deal with considering my plan to abstain from sex is still working, despite you telling me it shouldn't.

And yes, I was bullied, but that was more because I actually cared about academic influence and less about appealing to the popular crowd.

This post has been edited by Reyo: Sep 30 2011, 02:54 PM

[Yamper]

No, I have it out for people who 1) Base personal preference on the actions, or inaction of others, and not their own experience, 2) base a generalized statistic on observations of a much much MUCH smaller population, 3) have sex, and then complain relentlessly about various sex related problems. My roommate and his girlfriend will ask for the room on occasion for "massages" and I let them. I just play Dead Space or Assassin's Creed on my xbox until they finish. I don't care if you have sex. Now if he were to approach me and say "I think *girlfriend* may be pregnant" I'd say "Congratulations" and then ask if it was intentional. If it wasn't, I'd ask if any contraceptive was used. If no, I'd call him a dumbshit and offer names for the baby. If they decide to abort, I'll still be his friend and roommate, but tell him that it's not a very responsible decision given that he was smart enough to KNOW the consequences of his actions and choices. I would do this as calmly and as logically as possible and not pursue the point further than a small discussion because I respect him. I also realize that it would not really be my problem to deal with considering my plan to abstain from sex is still working, despite you telling me it shouldn't.

And yes, I was bullied, but that was more because I actually cared about academic influence and less about appealing to the popular crowd.

Pretty much agree with this. The whole "Girlfriend pregnant" thing anyway. The rest I mostly agree with. I jut personally find it sickening that people go around having sex willy nilly (no pun intended), get someone preggers and then abort it. I just don't think it's ethically right.

I mean yeah, have sex, go for it, it's your life not mine. But at least BOTHER using some form of contraception. Then again with the whole aborting part.. I agree with the entire underlined bit for this. I'd probably rage at x person if they got someone pregnant from recreational. It's not hard. Hence why I'm for sex education and all that. But of course, I think personally they should express more on contraception. They didn't really do it with us (they just did how people grew up from puberty etc) so I really think they should show the risks with what COULD happen if you don't use a condom. After all it's their choice... people have been given enough warnings. It's their own stupid fault if they don't use one.