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December Events
Jade
post Jan 1 2018, 09:25 PM
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It also kills interest in the people waiting for so long, which is why I'm guessing a activity on the site keeps going down and down. Constant delays, being one of them. I get that Gen 7 rollout was done in portions to help increase site activity and help staff as well, but I feel it's been had a greater negative effect than positive.

I'm just annoyed that no new pokemon was available (Zerx gave a valid reason). Was really hoping for an ultra beast or something, but now we gotta wait till Feb 1, because that's when the SWSH ends. And who knows if it'll be available at that date too.

Like all of this has already been said before, but the reason why it keeps coming back up is because nothing is changing. And you're right, it's hard for them to change because shit keeps coming up.

Just a frustrated GPX'er


I'm gonna add on to this a bit for discussion purposes, because I do agree activity has dropped, but it's been dropping for years. Slow releases probably aren't helping this recent year, but we're far beyond the days there was so much activity the site would just crash. And that's not entirely the site's fault.

Pokemon itself is losing interest. From B&W to X&Y, the games lost 10 million units in sales. S&M, despite all it's changes, in the game play and anime, still only performed where X&Y's games did thus far.

As a collector, I've also noticed that collecting Pokemon is no longer where it used to be either. The community of collectors aren't nearly as strong, though sales of merchandise are still pretty good. But, one of the main pokemon that's doing the best sales wise of the new pokemon? Is Alola Vulpix. So a re-imagining of an old pokemon.

And then there's this game. When it was first created, the site did really well, but now with cell phones having gotten as big as they have with their free games and Steam too, I can see how just a simple, interactive click game has lost some of it's appeal. The internet is becoming more and more a competitive tool as the years go by.

There's just a lot of factors to consider here and this site is extremely limited in what can be changed with it simply because the original coders (Zerx and BB) are retired or aren't here to make those changes any longer. Everything that we can do has to be something already implemented into the site's code not to mention the time of the people who have to create, run and maintain all of that.

I mean, asking for change is one thing, but to make change we also need people who can contribute to make those changes and... it's possible we just don't have the high number of people that it takes to do that anymore.


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Level-X
post Jan 1 2018, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE(Jade @ Jan 1 2018, 08:25 PM) *
QUOTE
It also kills interest in the people waiting for so long, which is why I'm guessing a activity on the site keeps going down and down. Constant delays, being one of them. I get that Gen 7 rollout was done in portions to help increase site activity and help staff as well, but I feel it's been had a greater negative effect than positive.

I'm just annoyed that no new pokemon was available (Zerx gave a valid reason). Was really hoping for an ultra beast or something, but now we gotta wait till Feb 1, because that's when the SWSH ends. And who knows if it'll be available at that date too.

Like all of this has already been said before, but the reason why it keeps coming back up is because nothing is changing. And you're right, it's hard for them to change because shit keeps coming up.

Just a frustrated GPX'er


I'm gonna add on to this a bit for discussion purposes, because I do agree activity has dropped, but it's been dropping for years. Slow releases probably aren't helping this recent year, but we're far beyond the days there was so much activity the site would just crash. And that's not entirely the site's fault.

Pokemon itself is losing interest. From B&W to X&Y, the games lost 10 million units in sales. S&M, despite all it's changes, in the game play and anime, still only performed where X&Y's games did thus far.

As a collector, I've also noticed that collecting Pokemon is no longer where it used to be either. The community of collectors aren't nearly as strong, though sales of merchandise are still pretty good. But, one of the main pokemon that's doing the best sales wise of the new pokemon? Is Alola Vulpix. So a re-imagining of an old pokemon.

And then there's this game. When it was first created, the site did really well, but now with cell phones having gotten as big as they have with their free games and Steam too, I can see how just a simple, interactive click game has lost some of it's appeal. The internet is becoming more and more a competitive tool as the years go by.

There's just a lot of factors to consider here and this site is extremely limited in what can be changed with it simply because the original coders (Zerx and BB) are retired or aren't here to make those changes any longer. Everything that we can do has to be something already implemented into the site's code not to mention the time of the people who have to create, run and maintain all of that.

I mean, asking for change is one thing, but to make change we also need people who can contribute to make those changes and... it's possible we just don't have the high number of people that it takes to do that anymore.


I enjoy discussion as well so I will post my thoughts on this. I lurk around on multiple threads both new and old, reading them as I interact on the site and I have seen this topic come up plenty times recently. Anytime I read things that SilverPT says, it's hard not to agree with him. He's right, it's as simple as that.

People will get busy, that's life. So if it's slow updates on GPX+ it's understandable. I don't really see it as 'People are just losing interest in Pokemon' and GPX has little to nothing to do with Pokemon sales. It might be possible that we don't have a high number of people here who can do free work for the site, but, you will never know that until it's been tried. It hasn't lately.

I'm sure that sometime in the year we'll get a topic that says, "We will try to aim for this, this, and this during this year for GPX." Or at least that'd be nice, but, some will say we were promised Achievements a while back but never got them. Maybe if we were given updates, even super minor ones through the monthly threads it might help grasp on where things are. For an example, I've seen multiple people not know about the Monthly Events ending. The whole 'Copy and Paste' thing for the raffle confused some people as well. I thought it was only one voucher, like it implied. Things just need to me more clearer, I suppose.

I don't see these post as constructive criticism. I see them as a GPX user who is passionate about the site and where it should go. Moreso because they know what it can be, it's potential. That's a good thing. You should want that in your fan base. It's not always easy to provide them with constant entertainment. So it might be a good thing to look for helpers, everyone eventually needs a shoulder to lean on. I love the site, and updates or not I will continue playing. I'm just glad it's still up and running.

This post has been edited by Level-X: Jan 1 2018, 09:56 PM


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Letan
post Jan 1 2018, 10:07 PM
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Alright I swore off confronting the regulars over toxic complaints about Gen 7, but it's very clear that's not working out so I'm going to make my point clear.

I was the one that got the ball rolling on Gen 7 being added to the site. When I've finished, I'm quitting GPX+.

Over my entire time as staff, I've seen a recurring lack of appreciation for the work that goes into GPX+ from numerous users. It's grown worse as staff left, and now that I voluntarily stepped into a contributor role I'm now experiencing it firsthand in regards to my own work.

I'm fortunate enough to have established myself in a local game development community that's been incredibly supportive of my work, and in my years of involvement with that I've experienced how shitty it is to go from that level of support to what's going on here every time we release content or run an event.

Yes, it's obviously not everyone who does it and I appreciate the supportive feedback I get, but I don't need your toxic behavior in my work life. I don't owe any of you a Gen 8 and I'm not interested in further work if this is how it's going to be.

And now I'll get to addressing specific points I've seen come up in this thread specifically, but you can do the detective legwork to find more examples of the mentality I hate.

QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 1 2018, 09:04 PM) *
Again, like I (and Esc ended up saying) the problem is that there's nothing going on. Nothing being made.

Spoiler (click to showhide)

I have two files on the go, one of which I started back in September. Stop lying.

QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 1 2018, 09:04 PM) *
I'm sure that there's a lot of people interested in joining the staff team so that they can help. People that can sprite, people that can write explorations, people that can code (even if only a bit, it would help already). Trusting your community goes a long way in making things better.

Our previous batch of sprite applicants had 3 that met the criteria we were looking for. Before that was around 10-15. I've personally resigned to stop bothering with the application process, especially when contributors have quietly left the site. It's becoming clear that just running the application process is a waste of my time.

QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 1 2018, 02:49 PM) *
and Silvally's (17) forms.

Spoiler (click to showhide)

Done since June, Nick hasn't had time to implement our plans for handling form changes and in that time we focused on releasing other things like the Zygarde Cube and more of Gen 7.

QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 1 2018, 02:49 PM) *
I'll not get too much into this because it was already discussed last month on the community thread, but something has to be done (and people have the right to complain as long as it's something constructive).

Here's me doing something: you guys complain too much and I care about my own mental health so I'm quitting later this year instead of continuing to expose myself to toxic mentalities of "Letan and the rest of staff owe us". I owe you nothing.

QUOTE(Stark Coyote @ Jan 1 2018, 02:11 PM) *
QUOTE(Hanaya Taiga @ Jan 1 2018, 02:08 PM) *

Highly disappointed I wasted half a day tbh

Same. :T
Like, I could've watched Black Mirror with the bf

Manage your priorities, it's unhealthy to put GPX+ first.

QUOTE(Esc @ Jan 1 2018, 05:09 PM) *
It also kills interest in the people waiting for so long, which is why I'm guessing a activity on the site keeps going down and down. Constant delays, being one of them. I get that Gen 7 rollout was done in portions to help increase site activity and help staff as well, but I feel it's been had a greater negative effect than positive.

It sure as shit has had a negative effect on my own wellbeing, which is why I'm out when this is done. You people also don't accept that forums in general are a dying concept in the social media age.

I just buried my cat not even two weeks ago and I get to start my year off with this. Unreal, dude.


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Jade
post Jan 2 2018, 12:55 AM
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Sorry Letan, I feel partially responsible. If I hadn't of spoken up, maybe no one would have found reason to respond. I'm sorry if my actions or any of my words hurt you in any way.

And yes, you've done a lot of incredible, self-motivated work on a website that was meant to be "Stuck in time" roughly two years ago and certainly was not guaranteed or given any indication we'd get updates you and the rest of the staff worked hard on providing for us. In fact, the site itself probably wouldn't still be standing had people not stepped up and offered to help keep it running.

So thank you, to you and everyone on the staff team both present and past, for everything you guys have done.


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Comfey
post Jan 2 2018, 04:56 AM
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I understand the frustration in not feeling thanked, but sometimes jobs like this are just simply thankless. Are any of the hundreds of separate graphic designers or modellers or artists ever credited for their work on Pokemon? No. Not really. Just Gamefreak and maybe the director every once in a while. How about all of the Pokemon designs? Nope, Ken Sugimori most of the time. The music? It's usually Masuda. You get the idea. At some point you have to understand the appropriate thanks are there, just nobody exclaims them. There is such thing as a quiet majority.

Most of the frustration stems from the lack of any real "reward," but that's just kind of the downside of being a voluntary, unpaid contributor, or at least that's what I'm assuming the deal is here. I'm a voluntary admin and contributor on another Pokemon-related game, and yeah, it sucks. Even if I do a good job adding all of the Pokemon everyone's asking for, I still get complaints, requests, and hardly any thanks. That's just how these jobs (and a majority of real jobs, too) go. The way I deal with it is that I suck it up and keep my expectations low. If you can't handle this sort of ideology that comes with voluntary unpaid work, then you probably shouldn't offer to do voluntary work for free in the first place. (though you seem to have made that decision already by now, so that's a bit redundant)

Though, to be perfectly honest, when GPX kind of fails to deliver this many times (100% zygarde not being added yet, apparently achievements not being added, et cetera), is the frustration even really unwarranted? Don't make promises that can't be kept with 100% certainty. I just want to point out that, yes, I get it, you guys have lives too. Prioritizing them first and all. That's completely fine. But that's not any different than what other people with jobs in the game industry go through. Failing to get things out on time is going to cause the consumers to be frustrated, and that should kind of be expected no matter what field you work in. Whether it's lack of motivation, depression, family troubles, relationship issues, stress, all of these are completely understandable reasons for delays. Again, put your life first, just stop expecting so much of completely random internet strangers, especially ones who are genuinely and rightfully disappointed. A lot of people you don't even talk to that have these complaints have no idea what's going on behind the curtains, or in your personal lives. That's just how it is when it comes to contribution that doesn't involve personal and social interaction with every consumer (which is...a lot of things).

As for why the site's activity is going down, I checked the poke hunt history a while back and noticed activity went from ~700 a day down to about ~200-~300 the week directly after Sun and Moon's release. The logical conclusion is that people simply drop GPX for a while to play the actual games. Some may forget about GPX entirely. And considering USUM just came out, that likely has a big factor in the activity loss right now, too. That's just how it goes.

With that said, thank you for what you've done to add to this game, Letan and anyone else on the team at the moment. Sorry if this seems like a dumb post, my brain is running on fumes and it's 4 am rn.

This post has been edited by Comfey: Jan 2 2018, 05:09 AM


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SilverPT
post Jan 2 2018, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE(Letan @ Jan 2 2018, 03:07 AM) *
-snip-


To start this, I don't see how this type of complaining inserts itself in being toxic. I really don't. And since you're a game dev, I'm sure that you know what a toxic community/complaints is/are (ie. No Man's Sky/Pokémon Go).

Anyway, you got it wrong and I apologize if it wasn't explicit enough. I've expressed this before (and I don't blame you for not reading it), but when I said/say that "there's nothing being made" it's not in a sense that the staff is just laying back and not caring. I'm aware that "small" content (as in writing explorations and spriting novelties/new 'mons/new forms) is being made. It's, as I said, "small" content (I consider "major" content as something completely new or a rework of some sorts; it has nothing to do with people not putting effort on it). Therefore there's no need to post screenshots proving anything or calling me a liar (as I've not insulted anyone here and always tried to help when criticizing).
Nothing is being made to change the situation we're in. To get new users or maintain old ones here. And it's true that the interest in this franchise is dwelling over the years (natural course with almost every videogame franchise), but every year that we get a game released, new people buy it. Kids/teens that just got into it. Adults that regained the interest. And we're not capitalizing on that. And we can.

Regarding your mental health issues, I'm sorry to hear about that. But it goes accordingly to what I've said in my previous post. If you (staff) need help, ask for it. Would you've reached that state if the staff team had more spriters that could have taken loads of work off your shoulders? If contributors left the site, open the application process again. It didn't worked that time, but it can work now. Accept someone that can evolve and progress in their work even if at the moment they don't met the criteria. Having one more person helping is better than having none.

If people complain, it's because they care. And they're willing to help, imo. Otherwise it's senseless to criticize something that you care about and not have any idea how to improve it. I understand that it seems that we, users, complain too much. But that only happens because you, staff, want to release something as soon as possible and for some reason, can't (which as happened often lately). On top of being frustrated, you already know that someone is going to complain. And then that happens again. And you get frustrated and someone complains. It's the snowball effect. A vicious cycle. I know how that feels. I've been on that side for 3 years. I had friendships that ended or turned sour because of that. I had no access to the server for 1 year (with the admin being unreachable and not caring at all) and when I finally had it, my coding knowledge was near 0%. And now I know why people complained, what my mistakes were and how I could have reached for help. That's what I'm trying to do here and it seems that I'm not alone, which is good. I would prefer to have a community that has a voice and can express themself rather than a community that is pleased and grateful with what they've. Simply because the first community is going to try to change something and the second is going to let the project die out.

This post has been edited by SilverPT: Jan 2 2018, 09:47 AM


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DevilsClap
post Jan 2 2018, 10:46 AM
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Mamanator
post Jan 2 2018, 11:44 AM
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As a former moderator from another gaming website I'd like to extend my appreciation to the GPX staff for what they've done. It's sad when something you've loved and put so much into seems to have turned from you. I totally understand what Letan was saying and can relate, to some degree, from my past experiences. One negative post on one forum web page may not be toxic, but when there are multiple negative posts and complaints across the website in general I can certainly agree that the level of toxicity grows to dangerous levels.

All forum staff personnel want to hear feedback from the community that they serve and they expect that there will be some negative remarks along the way. But what the general community needs to keep in mind is that GPX is not a paying website; it's strictly volunteer based. To my knowledge none of the staff are paid. I'm not certain what the age range is, but for those that aren't in school they are maintaining jobs and families. Some of these jobs may have them blocked from the website during their working hours leaving them to manage their personal time with their families and the website. It isn't always an easy choice and, on some days, there is no choice at all.

If this type of social media is truly going away that makes me sad indeed. I understand that things change; I just hope that GPX will always be around and available. I hope that the general community can accept the staff's time restraints and find different ways to change up their GPX play. If you've already gotten every single Pokemon, both regular and shiny, then how about changing your parameters? If you're someone who pulls from the Shelter then force all your Pokemon to be from the Lab. Or vise versa. If you've completed every single achievement go through them again but give yourself a time limit. happy.gif Limit yourself to only keeping Pokemon with an IV of 150 or higher - without using the vitamins or proteins. Go through the explorations and, when possible, force your choices to only be from the Lab and not the quick, readily available hatched ones from the Safari. I think there are so many more ways we can still enjoy the GPX set up as it is today while the staff works to create the sprites that we want at an expectation level that we've come to want.

In this new year I'm going to try and finish my current exploration and then I'm going to work on that IV challenge. Since I'm running out of box space anyway, by changing my parameters and force my choices to be 150+, I think I'm going to have a nice long run of searching out the Pokemon I can keep. I challenge all of us to find a new way to enjoy GPX. Why don't you think about it? wink.gif


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Wastelander
post Jan 2 2018, 11:46 AM
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Woah! My legend voucher egg hatched into a Shiny Tapu Bulu! Thank you so much ! This is extra special for me as it's my first shiny legendary that i've gotten on the site in the eight years i've been here. blush.gif


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Mamanator
post Jan 2 2018, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(Wastelander @ Jan 2 2018, 09:46 AM) *
Woah! My legend voucher egg hatched into a Shiny Tapu Bulu! Thank you so much ! This is extra special for me as it's my first shiny legendary that i've gotten on the site in the eight years i've been here. blush.gif

Holy Hockey Pucks Batman! Congratulations!! I hope to join you one day in that category. happy.gif


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Zerxer
post Jan 2 2018, 02:53 PM
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Chiming in here given all the discussion that's going on...

We announced a couple years back that the site would more or less run on autopilot to allow users to continue to enjoy what is already available, so there really shouldn't be any expectations of new features. That is why the frustration is unwarranted. As far as I know, I haven't really promised anything, besides the mention of a new Pokémon for the raffle. The achievements thing was never a promise by me either, and I apologize that some other staff continued to suggest achievements were coming, but they were also hoping for them just like you.

I'm not sure if we ever promised to actually complete Gen 7, but I feel we've done a pretty good job of getting them out there, even if it has been slow and steady, which gives users something to look forward to. Frankly, I'm impressed with all that we've accomplished since announcing that the site would no longer be worked on. Besides new Pokémon, we've continued to run events and have implemented new features. Users went years not being able to collect a single Arceus, let alone being able to collect all of them in a fun way, and now being able to not only obtain Normal Arceus, but being able to continuously obtain it. That means you can shiny hunt it and form change it to your favorite form.

Most of the new Pokémon (gen 7 and novelties alike) we've added in the last 2 years have even required custom work by me with regards to how they were initially distributed/obtained or how they evolve/form change, usually thanks to PokeNOM for thinking up the methods and pushing me to code them in, instead of just adding the Pokémon and reusing existing cookie cutter methods. This is also why the Silvally type-forms are not yet obtainable, because there are 17 of them and I want a fun way for obtaining them instead of just making them normal form changes.

While activity does die down a bit when new games come out, and then spur back up some, activity as a whole has decreased dramatically since before Wymsy left. We used to have 1000+ users active at a time, now we typically have ~200. That's an enormous decrease. We used to require a beefed-up dedicated server to handle all of the activity, now we exist on a small Linode instance. Yes, part of the problem is the decline in Admin activity, but it's also just the world, internet, and user-base themselves changing.

As Letan mentioned, forums like this are a dying breed in the wake of Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Slack, Discord, and Reddit. It's easier than ever to chat with friends and discover groups of people with similar interests, and forums like this feel about as old school and outdated as IRC has for the past decade (despite it still seeing a lot of usage too, of course). None of those services have the idea of "signatures" either so users aren't able to display their Pokémon to get view experience or to advertise GPX to other new potential users. That is how adoptables sites used to thrive: through signature advertisements.

The other big killer to sites like this are smartphones. Everyone's got one now, and they all have such impressive apps/games available, that a site like this where you're expected to click/tap a bunch of berries to feed Pokémon is just not fun. We also do not have an official iPhone/Android app, so potential new users wouldn't be able to find out about us by searching their app store. We have a mobile website, but it's outdated and not the best, and it wouldn't help solve what I've explained above anyway. It's also not worth making an official phone app/game because Pokémon is not our copyright. Nintendo now has a presence in the smartphone world with official apps for Mario, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, and even Pokémon, so they would be sure to issue a takedown if we tried to launch a GPX game.

Finally, this website was developed by just two people a decade ago (not discounting all of the work Wymsy did, this paragraph is just touching on the actual code portion -- but losing her did strip this site of a lot of its original magic). Creating it was a great learning experience for both of us, and we both have great jobs as software engineers now, but the code itself is outdated and awful. It doesn't use a community-managed framework nor follow any respectable design pattern. It's one giant pile of tech debt, and adding new features consists of injecting more tech debt. If it was truly worth restoring and improving GPX, if somehow we found a way to restore new user growth, then the entire game would need an internal redesign from the ground up. It's sadly not worth the time it would take, though. The best I could hope for is to take what I've learned here, redevelop it, and then reskin it as a custom adoptables site (stripping out the Pokémon, but Pokémon is most of the appeal). It's something I've definitely had an interest in doing, but I've just not been convinced it would be worth my time, so I focus on my day job and spend my free time away from the computer.


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pumpkinking0192
post Jan 2 2018, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE(Comfey @ Jan 2 2018, 03:56 AM) *
-snip-

Wow. Wow. Talk about toxic. "Sometimes jobs like this are just simply thankless"? That's not a healthy way to support a site.

QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 2 2018, 08:46 AM) *
-snip-

Holy mansplaining, Batman! Your post reeks of entitlement; you seem to have read Letan's post with the mindset of "how do I argue to convince Letan they're wrong", not "let me try to understand how Letan is feeling".

---

To Letan and all the rest of the staff and contributors: Thank you for everything you've done over the years, and please know that the loud toxic voices like those above are not representative of all members. I hope you and the site will stay around as long as possible, but seeing posts like the ones above, I can't blame you for leaving. I'll be continuing to click and shiny hunt as long as the servers are still running (regardless of whether any new features or Pokemon are implemented), which is the best way I know to show you guys support. Thank you.

PS. Letan, my condolences about your cat.

This post has been edited by pumpkinking0192: Jan 2 2018, 03:54 PM


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post Jan 2 2018, 03:55 PM
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I got a Legend Voucher Plus grin.gif I'm so happy ^^ I'll be able to complete my legendary dogs trio without waiting for next explorations~


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Comfey
post Jan 2 2018, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE(pumpkinking0192 @ Jan 2 2018, 03:52 PM) *
QUOTE(Comfey @ Jan 2 2018, 03:56 AM) *
-snip-

Wow. Wow. Talk about toxic. "Sometimes jobs like this are just simply thankless"? That's not a healthy way to support a site.

QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 2 2018, 08:46 AM) *
-snip-

Holy mansplaining, Batman! Your post reeks of entitlement; you seem to have read Letan's post with the mindset of "how do I argue to convince Letan they're wrong", not "let me try to understand how Letan is feeling".

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To Letan and all the rest of the staff and contributors: Thank you for everything you've done over the years, and please know that the loud toxic voices like those above are not representative of all members. I hope you and the site will stay around as long as possible, but seeing posts like the ones above, I can't blame you for leaving. I'll be continuing to click and shiny hunt as long as the servers are still running (regardless of whether any new features or Pokemon are implemented), which is the best way I know to show you guys support. Thank you.

PS. Letan, my condolences about your cat.

I'm sorry? How is that factual statement toxic in any way, and have you seen toxic fanbases at all? Because they act nothing like how I did in that post, and in the end I even thanked the team. Toxic people simply do not that. If you want to meet people who are actually toxic, go check out a competitive game like League of Legends. Hell, even TF2 has some really toxic people in it. Pokemon has its own share of toxic people, dude, just read up on what all Verlisify did. And now that we're getting into youtubers, what about Keemstar? Those are what toxicity is like. And that's just not what's going on in these posts.

I completely agree with SilverPT's post. These complaints are nowhere near what toxicity actually is, and they are still not really unwarranted considering how much has been announced only to be forgotten about, despite what Zerxer says. Not everyone on this website today was here 2 years ago to read a post that the website's development would be slowing down. I know I wasn't (and just because I joined in 2012 doesn't mean I saw it; I forgot about this website until mid last year). And in the end, a broken promise is still a broken promise. People do in fact complain directly because they care, and I'm writing these posts right now because I care and want to help the website improve in some way myself. Even the tiniest bit would be satisfying.

Please don't accuse people of being "toxic" or "entitled" when you have no clue what these words even mean, and please don't attack them just because they're not treating every one of these problems like "happy rainbows cupcakes and unicorns haha nothing's wrong at all, are you toxic!?" That's toxic in of itself.

EDIT: As a side note, I don't believe administration shrinkage is the biggest reason for a huge ~500 player loss. That's practically claiming this occurrence happening right after Sun and Moon came out is a coincidence, which, let's be real, it's obviously not.

This post has been edited by Comfey: Jan 2 2018, 05:08 PM


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Yamper
post Jan 2 2018, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE(Comfey @ Jan 2 2018, 09:56 AM) *
Though, to be perfectly honest, when GPX kind of fails to deliver this many times (100% zygarde not being added yet, apparently achievements not being added, et cetera), is the frustration even really unwarranted?


I'm terribly sorry that an arrangement of pixels is so dear to you that, despite it being answered multiple times it still seems to be tossed about.

I have given enough statement in regards to it. I have nothing more to say on the matter.

Just let me point out: For someone who is trying to get through work, university, EXAMS, I barely get 5 minutes to myself. I understand the frustration, but have you taken into consideration the frustration I'm getting when it's constantly being brought up?

This post has been edited by x Sam: Jan 2 2018, 05:06 PM


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Zerxer
post Jan 2 2018, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE(Comfey @ Jan 2 2018, 03:32 PM) *
I completely agree with SilverPT's post. These complaints are nowhere near what toxicity actually is, and they are still not really unwarranted considering how much has been announced only to be forgotten about, despite what Zerxer says. Not everyone on this website today was here 2 years ago to read a post that the website's development would be slowing down. I know I wasn't (and just because I joined in 2012 doesn't mean I saw it; I forgot about this website until mid last year). And in the end, a broken promise is still a broken promise.


Here you go. We're actually coming up on 3 full years in March. Consider this my second time saying that the site is essentially living on frozen in time, and posts complaining that not enough is being done are in fact unwarranted because of that. We've actually done more than was promised, in a lot of ways.


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Comfey
post Jan 2 2018, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE(x Sam @ Jan 2 2018, 05:03 PM) *
I'm terribly sorry that an arrangement of pixels is so dear to you that, despite it being answered multiple times it still seems to be tossed about.

I have given enough statement in regards to it. I have nothing more to say on the matter.

Just let me point out: For someone who is trying to get through work, university, EXAMS, I barely get 5 minutes to myself. I understand the frustration, but have you taken into consideration the frustration I'm getting when it's constantly being brought up?


Yes, I have. Have you considered a majority of the people on GPX don't even talk to you, let alone know what goes on in your life? I've already stated several times I understand stress and busywork, and I have also said to put that first in your priorities, but not everyone is going to act empathetic. You seem to think this is such a huge deal, when in reality I don't care what isn't added right away. I can live without these pixels just as easily as I can live without this website, and if you need to get life priorities done first, go ahead; all the power to you, and I wish you the best of luck. I'm just pointing out where the source of the problem might be.

QUOTE(Zerxer @ Jan 2 2018, 05:07 PM) *
QUOTE(Comfey @ Jan 2 2018, 03:32 PM) *
I completely agree with SilverPT's post. These complaints are nowhere near what toxicity actually is, and they are still not really unwarranted considering how much has been announced only to be forgotten about, despite what Zerxer says. Not everyone on this website today was here 2 years ago to read a post that the website's development would be slowing down. I know I wasn't (and just because I joined in 2012 doesn't mean I saw it; I forgot about this website until mid last year). And in the end, a broken promise is still a broken promise.


Here you go. We're actually coming up on 3 full years in March. Consider this my second time saying that the site is essentially living on frozen in time, and posts complaining that not enough is being done are in fact unwarranted because of that. We've actually done more than was promised, in a lot of ways.


This doesn't address what I said at all. Lots of people on GPX don't do literally everything they expect you to. They aren't going to dig around for a topic that was posted almost 3 years ago and probably buried under a sleuth of other posts the week after. Expecting that of hundreds of random people is downright unrealistic, and claiming peoples' complaints are unwarranted because of a topic posted 3 years ago that most people wouldn't even know existed is absurd. It's practically as good as looking for an excuse not to accept simple criticism from an outsider's perspective, one who has no clue what goes on behind the scenes. I apologize if this comes off as brash, but there's really no way to word it without being frank.

TL;DR: I understand. It's frustrating. it hurts to see most of the work you've done be underappreciated, and it hurts especially when you're busy and stressful and need support the most. But when you're getting legitimate complaints, and throwing complaints back, what good is that doing anyone?

If anyone wants to talk to me more about this, reply to me directly using PMs so this topic doesn't get flooded.

This post has been edited by Comfey: Jan 2 2018, 05:46 PM


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Necrozma
post Jan 2 2018, 05:42 PM
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I just want to say thank you to the staff for keeping this site running. Though it may not be as fancy or up-to-date as some of the newer Pokemon sites, I still enjoy playing here.

I'm sorry if this next part sounds critical, I am not intending to criticize anyone here. I'm just wondering: how did something that was supposed to be fun (the raffle) generate so much complaining? It's a rhetorical question, not one I actually want an answer to. I've just been thinking about as I read this thread.

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Letan
post Jan 2 2018, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE(Comfey @ Jan 2 2018, 05:39 PM) *
This doesn't address what I said at all. Lots of people on GPX don't do literally everything they expect you to. They aren't going to dig around for a topic that was posted almost 3 years ago and probably buried under a sleuth of other posts the week after. Expecting that of hundreds of random people is downright unrealistic, and claiming peoples' complaints are unwarranted because of a topic posted 3 years ago that most people wouldn't even know existed is absurd. It's practically as good as looking for an excuse not to accept simple criticism from an outsider's perspective, one who has no clue what goes on behind the scenes. I apologize if this comes off as brash, but there's really no way to word it without being frank.

TL;DR: I understand. It's frustrating. it hurts to see most of the work you've done be underappreciated, and it hurts especially when you're busy and stressful and need support the most. But when you're getting legitimate complaints, and throwing complaints back, what good is that doing anyone?


QUOTE(SilverPT @ Jan 2 2018, 09:46 AM) *
To start this, I don't see how this type of complaining inserts itself in being toxic. I really don't. And since you're a game dev, I'm sure that you know what a toxic community/complaints is/are (ie. No Man's Sky/Pokémon Go).

Anyway, you got it wrong and I apologize if it wasn't explicit enough. I've expressed this before (and I don't blame you for not reading it), but when I said/say that "there's nothing being made" it's not in a sense that the staff is just laying back and not caring. I'm aware that "small" content (as in writing explorations and spriting novelties/new 'mons/new forms) is being made. It's, as I said, "small" content (I consider "major" content as something completely new or a rework of some sorts; it has nothing to do with people not putting effort on it). Therefore there's no need to post screenshots proving anything or calling me a liar (as I've not insulted anyone here and always tried to help when criticizing).
Nothing is being made to change the situation we're in. To get new users or maintain old ones here. And it's true that the interest in this franchise is dwelling over the years (natural course with almost every videogame franchise), but every year that we get a game released, new people buy it. Kids/teens that just got into it. Adults that regained the interest. And we're not capitalizing on that. And we can.

Regarding your mental health issues, I'm sorry to hear about that. But it goes accordingly to what I've said in my previous post. If you (staff) need help, ask for it. Would you've reached that state if the staff team had more spriters that could have taken loads of work off your shoulders? If contributors left the site, open the application process again. It didn't worked that time, but it can work now. Accept someone that can evolve and progress in their work even if at the moment they don't met the criteria. Having one more person helping is better than having none.

If people complain, it's because they care. And they're willing to help, imo. Otherwise it's senseless to criticize something that you care about and not have any idea how to improve it. I understand that it seems that we, users, complain too much. But that only happens because you, staff, want to release something as soon as possible and for some reason, can't (which as happened often lately). On top of being frustrated, you already know that someone is going to complain. And then that happens again. And you get frustrated and someone complains. It's the snowball effect. A vicious cycle. I know how that feels. I've been on that side for 3 years. I had friendships that ended or turned sour because of that. I had no access to the server for 1 year (with the admin being unreachable and not caring at all) and when I finally had it, my coding knowledge was near 0%. And now I know why people complained, what my mistakes were and how I could have reached for help. That's what I'm trying to do here and it seems that I'm not alone, which is good. I would prefer to have a community that has a voice and can express themself rather than a community that is pleased and grateful with what they've. Simply because the first community is going to try to change something and the second is going to let the project die out.


You guys are both assholes that need to be taught a valuable lesson.

Treat your content creators better if you enjoy their content. Leave if you don't. Neither of you understand how to positively give constructive feedback; complaint isn't how it's done.

Since you didn't get the hint the last time, I'm taking Wymsy's advice she gave me last night and leaving immediately. Clearly it's not worth my time to finish up gen 7.

Thread's done, I'm out.


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post Jan 2 2018, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE(Necrozma @ Jan 2 2018, 04:42 PM) *
I'm sorry if this next part sounds critical, I am not intending to criticize anyone here. I'm just wondering: how did something that was supposed to be fun (the raffle) generate so much complaining? It's a rhetorical question, not one I actually want an answer to. I've just been thinking about as I read this thread.

I understand you said it's a rhetorical question, but I am sure it's something a lot of outliers are wondering, so it's one I'm going to respond to.

Most event threads tend to go this route, as do a lot of regular threads like the monthly community thread (at least with intertwined complaining in them). That's why a few of the staff are suddenly up in arms and talking about toxicity, because this isn't a one-time occurrence, it is something that happens all the time. Sometimes there is a small bit of reason behind it, such as the end prize not lining up with the original post which mentioned a new Pokémon, but we usually have a good reason for it (as I had already given), other times it is just users not being happy with the result. It is typically a vocal minority though, with a large silent majority that are happy (or at least content) with how things are going.

I will say though that this definitely isn't new... even back when the site was in active development, and there was a lot more activity, we still had a lot of vocal complaining (some of it by the same folks that are still around and unhappy today). It's easy enough for me to shrug off and move on, because I know I do what I can and that's that, but a lot of the other staff have just been having a rough time so this isn't making things easier for them. It has probably played a part in staff, from admin to contributor, losing interest in the site over the years though.

I'm going to let this thread end now that December is over and I think everything that could be said, by both sides, has already been said. It's not worth the back and forth at this point, at least not in this event thread.


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