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Abortion
Lord Raven
post Aug 1 2010, 02:33 AM
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Continued from here.

I'm pro-choice cause I believe in freedom of choice yadda yadda yadda i don't give a shit enough anymore to give the full reasoning behind my viewpoint


Note: If anyone is doing anything like what Drew was doing in the previous thread -- ie, saying controversial things and ignoring all points directed to them while only bringing up repeated arguments of their own -- they will be warned 10% IMMEDIATELY. There are no strict guidelines to this, but if someone is saying something to you, don't just ignore them and go on your own tangent; that's just fucking rude and disrespectful. They gave you the time to respond to your post, you should honor them with the same time and respect they gave you. This applies to pro-choicers, in fact probably moreso because there are more of you out there.


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Natsume Reiko
post Aug 1 2010, 02:34 AM
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I believe in choice as well. I'm all for having that option for women who have been raped and are in critical danger of death from a misplaced fetus- especially if it starts growing in the fallopian tube where chances of its survival are 0%


I say this out of my own experience having been raped as a child.

This post has been edited by Stardust Snorter: Aug 1 2010, 02:36 AM


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PikaDiety
post Aug 1 2010, 02:36 AM
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Okay, just gonna state my opinion and run right now, cause it's 3:30 in the morning and I'm about to head off to bed.

I support abortion to the point where a fetus becomes a baby. In my opinion, the point where it can survive outside of the womb. I would only actually have an abortion in the case of rape or threatening my life. Abortion should always be legal in rape and life threatening cases. No matter what. But it should be allowed anyways. Women have the right to do what they want to their bodies.
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Galahawk
post Aug 1 2010, 02:37 AM
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As I stated in the previous discussion, I am pro-choice. Seeing as how my gender is the one directly affected, I feel that I have the right to control what happens to my own body.
Although I condone abstinence and safe sex to just as equal of a degree. But all-in-all, it should be the mother's decision if she feels she has a good reason to.


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Sicklesium
post Aug 1 2010, 02:37 AM
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lol some minor copy paste.

If the girl has sex unprotected or below being a legal adult, and gets pregnant, it is her fault. She is stuck with the baby throughout the nine months and one week she must carry it. Then she may put it up for adoption if needed. Tough shit. Not pro-choice on this aspect, but I wouldn't call it pro-life either.

If she's young and the pregnancy was because of rape or it is a fatal pregnancy and sh eis going to die, then I'm pro-choice.


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Lord Raven
post Aug 1 2010, 02:41 AM
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i've said this before, but that's almost as if the child is a punishment for having underage sex... I'm not quite sure i feel comfortable with using a child in that regard


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Sicklesium
post Aug 1 2010, 02:43 AM
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Yes, but the child could go up for adoption as soon as the baby is born. Therefore, if the family is caring enough, it would be nice. Then the fucker of a mother could go and use condoms.


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Reyo
post Aug 1 2010, 02:44 AM
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Pretty much still the same. Rape, the risk of birth defects, broken contraceptive, and incest (because of the social aspect) are pretty much what I have sympathy for. Other than that, it's shirking responsibility.

Obligation aside, I'm getting tired of this topic. Comment if you want, but chances are I'm going to spend 90% of my time acting as a 3rd person observer. Hope that doesn't cause too much disrespect.

Cue comments on how I'm a sexist communist.

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Natsume Reiko
post Aug 1 2010, 02:45 AM
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Depends on the age in that regard if the teen had sex and was pregnant at 16+ then the age for reproduction is fine with little complications. Under that would bring issues overall. Nursing school yay...notreally. Lol.

I think that schools should change their abstinence teaching towards contraceptives. Teens are gonna fuck regardless of what you tell them.


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PikaDiety
post Aug 1 2010, 02:46 AM
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QUOTE(The Mad Hatter @ Aug 1 2010, 03:43 AM) *
Yes, but the child could go up for adoption as soon as the baby is born. Therefore, if the family is caring enough, it would be nice. Then the fucker of a mother could go and use condoms.


Yes, but think of how fucked up the foster care system is and how many children don't get adopted. They spend their entire childhood in the system, possibly being abused. Then it's just a punishment to the child as well as the woman for forcing her to go through nine months of pregnancy and then the actual birth.
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Natsume Reiko
post Aug 1 2010, 02:48 AM
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Indeed. I hate the foster care system. The time I was actually homeless...a lot of the teens that were on the streets were run aways from the foster care system. A lot of the girls were raped and sexually abused by their foster parents. It was sickeningly really. The system is completely over strained. People think it's okay to just pop out children and abandon them thinking that it will fix itself. It won't. It just increases the rate of poverty and illiteracy.


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Sicklesium
post Aug 1 2010, 02:48 AM
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QUOTE(Stardust Snorter @ Aug 1 2010, 03:45 AM) *
I think that schools should change their abstinence teaching towards contraceptives. Teens are gonna fuck regardless of what you tell them.


I full heartedly agree with this. People are having sex anyway, but they don't know how to stay safe. If they're taught, it would lower the total numbers of teen pregnancies. Thus, lowering the number of abortions.


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Galahawk
post Aug 1 2010, 02:49 AM
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It may have been irresponsible, but it's still a possible danger to the potential mother. Plus as was mentioned in the previous thread time and time again, putting a child up for adoption =/= actually getting adopted. Our system is just too royally screwed up to be that idealistic.

I only support the idea of telling people to just put the child up for adoption if they're willing to adopt for themselves.
(which I'm more than willing to do, the thought of having my own child scares me)

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Master Element
post Aug 1 2010, 02:56 AM
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My reasoning is short on this matter

If the woman was given no choice when the baby was conceived, such as rape. Then she should most certainly be given the choice to keep the baby or not. But if the baby was conceived through the poor choices of the woman, then she should be given no choice and must bear the potential burden the child may bring. Unless of course the baby, while developing becomes a potential danger to the mother to be.

I'm not very well established in debating, so I do hope I made my view clear enough to understand. =D


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Stratospheric Co...
post Aug 1 2010, 03:14 AM
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Okay guys. I'm sorry for acting like that. I shouldn't have. You can forgive me right?BTW the guy above me pretty much stated my opinion.I was bein an ***.

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Phovos the Rapto...
post Aug 1 2010, 10:10 AM
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I'm gonna be quick with this.

If the child isn't their fault, or it's rape or it'll kill the mother or some other extreme like that, yes, go ahead, abort.

If the child was a mistake on behalf of the mother... Well, it depends. You can't just put them up for adoption, because life for adopted children almost always sucks. You either get lucky or you have a cruel childhood. It's one thing if you've arranged everything beforehand (surrogate mothers, that sort of stuff) but if you just dump them at an orphanage when they're born, that is just... irresponsible.

Then again, the choice of abortion wouldn't be such a bad thing in this time of age. We have a population that is growing and probably won't stop growing, and not letting people, including (ignorant, foolish) teenagers (who don't do it safely) who can't look after or will struggle to look after a baby, will just make our population increase further, bringing more children who we can't look after into the world.


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joker
post Aug 1 2010, 10:36 AM
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On the moral side....abortion is horrible if done at the later stages...its basically killing a baby. But if we are talking about freedom of choice, then i guess it should be allowed. Still, its taking away all the potential the baby has in this world. Borrowing a cliche: this baby could have been the one to find the cure for cancer. My point is, abortion is just not killing the baby himself/herself, but all of the potential and the possiblities that the baby had. I mean think of it...
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Stratospheric Co...
post Aug 1 2010, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE(joker @ Aug 1 2010, 11:36 AM) *
On the moral side....abortion is horrible if done at the later stages...its basically killing a baby. But if we are talking about freedom of choice, then i guess it should be allowed. Still, its taking away all the potential the baby has in this world. Borrowing a cliche: this baby could have been the one to find the cure for cancer. My point is, abortion is just not killing the baby himself/herself, but all of the potential and the possiblities that the baby had. I mean think of it...

I agree completely with this. BTW Sorry for being an ***.
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PikaDiety
post Aug 1 2010, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE(joker @ Aug 1 2010, 11:36 AM) *
On the moral side....abortion is horrible if done at the later stages...its basically killing a baby. But if we are talking about freedom of choice, then i guess it should be allowed. Still, its taking away all the potential the baby has in this world. Borrowing a cliche: this baby could have been the one to find the cure for cancer. My point is, abortion is just not killing the baby himself/herself, but all of the potential and the possiblities that the baby had. I mean think of it...


If we're going with that argument, the baby could also become the next Hitler. Meaning it would be kinder to abort it. You don't know what a baby is going to grow up to do, we don't have set destinies. I doubt when my mom was pregnant she'd ever suspect I'd be trying to work my way to becoming a writer. Some parents don't even think of what their kid will be while pregnant, and don't until after the kid is born.
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Crystal Shards
post Aug 1 2010, 12:18 PM
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Copy/pasta from last thread:

I think these two videos sum up pretty much how I feel on the actual debate of abortion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LflNHygv4wE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymF6b09VO9w

My stance? I'm pro choice. What we should be looking to do instead of arguing over whether women should be allowed to have safe abortions, we should look for ways to lower the rates of unwanted pregnancies. This can be done by making contraception easier and cheaper to get a hold of (where I am at, each month of the pill is $10 and each quarter-year shot is $75, condoms are free in some places like hospitals and some schools but not all) and better sex education. What I mean by better sex education is that women and men should both receive better than abstinence-only education and that they should receive lessons on what a baby actually needs. Many younger girls, thanks to celebrities like Britney Spears and television shows like 16 and Pregnant, seem to see pregnancy as glamorous, and babies as pets. They don't seem to understand that babies need constant care and affection, and that you can't just give it away when it's done being fun. Having a child affects more than just the body--it affects entire lives of everyone involved. So it's important that if you are going to have a child, that you're trained to be able to take care of it, and you understand the responsibilities.

These two things, more available contraception and better sex education, would greatly reduce abortion rates because they would reduce unwanted/teen pregnancy rates (and, by extension, pregnancy rates as a whole). With lower pregnancy rates (especially those due to a lack of knowledge/materials) comes lower abortion rates.

Really, this isn't an argument about abortion being allowed, because it's going to happen whether or not we support it. It's about whether we're going to allow abortions to occur within a safe environment. I applaud anyone who takes on the massive responsibility of parenthood, but the fact of the matter is it's not for everyone. I think a vast majority women actually think before having an abortion. It's not a decision to be made lightly, and anyone who is actually pregnant is going to be more likely to fully understand the consequences of their actions. When a woman gets pregnant, regardless of her initial feelings, she should go to a doctor and have every option explained to her in an unbiased manner. She needs to make an educated decision for herself. If she'd prefer to take the fetus to term, then she has two options: adoption or keeping it. If she doesn't, then her option is abortion. ANY of those choices are going to have psychological effects on the mother, and so she should be carefully monitored.

Also you can't send every unwanted baby into foster care or adoption agencies. As much as I personally prefer adoption to abortion, it's not economical. At all. Foster care centers and adoption agencies have enough strain on them as it is without piling on at least a million more kids per year, assuming every kid not aborted goes into foster care/adoption agencies.

Using the "what if you were the fetus" argument is ignorant with the light we've cast upon what a fetus can actually feel and think about. It's the same as the "what if you had the next president of the United States" argument--what ifs mean nothing. Frau Hitler was advised to abort for health reasons and didn't. Does this mean we should advocate abortion 100% of the time? No. So why should the argument work the other way? My mom's family asked if she could have an abortion, and she decided not to, and I'm here. If she had (not that it's really all that easy to do at six months), I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here to feel regret about being here. Woopdefreakingdo.

On a side note, really rape shouldn't even be an issue here. Either a woman has complete control over her reproductive organs or she doesn't. To say she doesn't would only add insult to injury in a case like rape. Not to mention rape/incest cases are like, 1-2% of abortion cases, last statistics I saw (and 6% are due to health reasons).

This post has been edited by Crystal Shards: Aug 1 2010, 12:19 PM


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