[X] My Assistant

[00Weaville]

Being a Catholic believing in GOD, I have had my doubts, I am open minded to the fact that science has a strong argument that the Big Bang theory occurred and the evolution factor seems to be accepted as there is sufficient evidence that supports this, bones and similarities between different species of animals and their ancestors and even the earlier humans. What made evolution, what was the catalyst? Maybe GOD made a catalyst so that ends can evolve but it states in the BIBLE that everything was created in 7 days and there were already humans. GOD is needed for stabilization in some peoples lives providing hope and order so that chaos does not exist, beliefs and rules are needed in a person's life so that one does not go off to the path of darkness and crime.

[ToxicInfection]

Evolution definately. It has been proven that evolution has happened and will continue to happen. Anyone who thinks it hasn't happened and is not real, needs to get a hold of themselves. But if they choose not to believe that then oh well.

[Blemmigan]

I'm very much a man of science. But I also have a great love for religion and faith.

Science is this amazing thing, these wonderful theories that we, as humans, have conceived and invented and refined: the want to understand everything in our universe, to fit it all together in a form which makes sense.
Evolution, this amazing theory which we have come up with ourselves to explain our past. Not everyone may agree that it happened, but the fact that it all fits is beautiful. Too beautiful to ignore.

Same for the big bang- though doesn't the Big bang agree with Genesis anyway? Something created from nothing, in a sense, though of course that's not the whole story as far as science is concerned- but I won't make a fool of myself by trying to untangle it here xD;

Back to Genesis: it talks of Adam & Eve eating the fruit and gaining knowledge, and God speaks of Eve being made to suffer pain in childbirth. And of course when humans gained larger brains & walked upright- the pelvis cannot be too wide for the latter to be true, and this means that human childbirth is very painful: narrow pelvis & large skulls.
It may not prove anything, but it's interesting, because [inadvertently, perhaps] both stories again share a theory.

But I don't believe that the argument is black/white, right/wrong, God/evolution.
Yes, it's impossible to believe that life was created, poof, like that and, at the same time, that life evolved over millions of years, but there's nothing to say that evolution and God exist.

This all said, no, I cannot believe in creation in six days.
Mainly because life is not perfect, and if it was designed to the best of an omniscient being's ability [which would be the best possible], then surely it would be.
A common argument is the [human] eye: the eye is an amazing piece of machinery- there's no argument there. I'm not a biologist, but the more I learn about how the body works, how plants work and how the molecules function together, the more incredible I find it. It's just breathtaking, and I understand how it's difficult to imagine that all of this just fell together.
Except that, of course, evolution is not just things falling together. It's not a load of stuff put into a beaker, swilled around and poured out to make a person. It's millions and millions of years of trial and error, and we are the result at this time- of course, it hasn't stopped there.

Returning to the eye: No, it isn't perfect. The obvious flaw is the fact that so many people wear spectacles. If we are made in God's image, then is God short-sighted? 0o

Evolution and God are not on the same scale, as far as I'm concerned.
Science is fuel for the brain, stimulation for the mind and for logic, but faith is fuel for the heart and soul, it can give people a sense of purpose and hope and there's nothing wrong at all with wanting that.
[in concurrence with Weaville thar]


I have no idea if that post made sense or not.

[Twilight Spectru...]

Aw, pity that this topic has only been brought back to life recently. Otherwise I'd have a bit more to talk about. XD;

And to add onto November 11's bit about the eye, here's a short youtube video that explains the early stages of its evolution. Evolution of the Eye

Many people are very intent on calling evolution "just a theory" But the fact of the matter is, "theory" in science if different than the common use. The common definition of theory is "just a guess". The scientific definition of theory is "a group of general statements used as the explanation for observed phenomena".

The big slogan for many creationists is "we didn't evolve from monkeys". Which is right. We didn't. Monkeys and humans evolved from a common ancestor. And we don't see monkeys evolving into humans because evolution is slowwww and needs selecting forces...

I'm in Biology AP this year, and the more I learn about evolution the more I'm sure it's true.

[Typhlosion]

how did the person who wrote the bible know that it took god 7 days to make the earth? how did he know that the snake told adam and eve to take the apple from the tree of eden?

I was personally thinking the same thing yesterday when I was talking about Religion to some one.
In all's honesty, how can some one that made a book a long time ago, know about how it took god 7 days to make the earth or how god created such beings as Adam and Eve. How did this person know about Noah's giant boat or about how life was a billion years ago before he/she/it was even born? It doesn't make sense to me at all.
That is why I don't believe in everything the bible says. I believe that we as humans evolved from an ancient form of ape billions of years ago. I also believe the big bang theorie. In general, I believe in evolution over a lot of what the bible says.

[Lord Raven]

I'm in Biology AP this year, and the more I learn about evolution the more I'm sure it's true.

We learned pretty much all of that in Bio GT in my school. :[

I should take Bio AP though, but it would probably be murder with Chem/Physics (Electromagnetism)/Calc C (Multivariate as well) already. :[

In all's honesty, how can some one that made a book a long time ago, know about how it took god 7 days to make the earth or how god created such beings as Adam and Eve. How did this person know about Noah's giant boat or about how life was a billion years ago before he/she/it was even born? It doesn't make sense to me at all.

Didn't the Bible say that God gave the info to some guy who wrote the Bible or something? My memory's pretty foggy and I know shit all about religion, so it's just what I recall.

[Swordsalmon]

Didn't the Bible say that God gave the info to some guy who wrote the Bible or something? My memory's pretty foggy and I know shit all about religion, so it's just what I recall.

Yes, the writers of the Bible were given divine infallability, so to speak. I don't remember the exact term, though.

And even then, the Bible's passages can be interpeted in different ways. I personally believe that in Genesis, the six days of Creation were a stand-in for the billions of years of change by the Lord. Besides, it's pretty doubtful that most Christians don't accept evolution; it seems more of the literal interpeters act as a voice for a silent majority.

[Stealth Rock]

I didn't want to have a lifelong argument, so I decided to believe that God created evolution.

I wanted a compromise.

[Shiraoi]

I didn't want to have a lifelong argument, so I decided to believe that God created evolution.

I wanted a compromise.

That's how it was explained to us when we were seven. When I grew up and realized that people are actually arguing about that stuff, I was shocked, because I thought that it is obvious that there was evolution and if someone is religious, he/she can believe that it was God who triggered it. Just like someone who was in a bad accident but ended up alive and healthy would be a lucky coincidence for me, someone religious would say that God saved him.

I also think that the Bible is a metaphor... but then again, what I can say, I was brought up as Christian, but I'm not religious and I don't really believe in most of what I was taught (or rather have my own opinions) so.

[Polaris]

I believe in a little of both. They both make sense.

[salochin]

I personally think that God created evolution so that God would not have to step in constantly and change a species that can't survive or is forced to adapt to a new environment. Evolution is pretty obvious since the first human's were only about two feet tall, maybe three, Now most people are five or more feet tall.

[Lord Raven]

Yeah I'm not sure that's the most direct proof.

Bacteria and antibiotics is, though.

[Kaname Madoka]

I'm an open-minded person, however I find that facts are more believable than a man who supposedly lives in the sky. I have a lot of friends who are very religious, however, and we get along fine, because we don't force our beliefs on each other. The topic never comes up.

[Nivbird]

I'm a training scientist, so, I go for evolution (which has been proven, although not completely solved) rather than creationism, besides, I've always taken the Creation myth like a symbolical story.
All in all, I think that evolution isn't a matter of belief - it doesn't stop because YOU don't believe in it.

[nebz5]

I don't think its on or the other I think they kinda go together like if god exist he made the start and let evolution do the rest or you know something like that

[Dys Tuvai]

One of the first things they teach you in Biology is that nothing is ever a proven fact. There's only the most likely hypothesis.

Evolution through natural selection IS a very likely hypothesis - it's a process that, at least on the surface, appears to be happening. Life seems to be a highly powerful adaptive force - and really, anyone who underestimates it and claims it isn't happening is either blind to what's going on around them or forcibly trying to nitpick to find holes in a theory they do not rightfully understand. Lightbird said it best - it doesn't stop happening because someone doesn't believe in it.

Quoting the sci-fi author Phillip K. Dick, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Of course, some people may make the same argument about Gods. But eh. xD

I'm a bit of an atheist - not a full-blown one as I don't fully deny the possibility of a supreme being, or beings, or maybe even the universe itself being aware and consciously or subconsciously influencing what we've come to accept as the laws of physics or facts. I do NOT however believe in the existence of the commonly-perceived deity of common monotheistic religions - which is far too human-like for my tastes. And so I don't support creationism - because honestly even science, which at some point states that we can't know for a fact what some things are (Heisenberg uncertainty principle anyone?) is a more likely hypothesis to me than something like that running the universe.

But ultimately, I don't really think it matters. I think that we'll never know what is really going on - it's far beyond our level of understanding - but it's perfectly all right to theorize, and as long as people respect each other's views, no harm done. >>;

This post has been edited by Dys Tuvai: Apr 13 2009, 05:52 PM

[Kassi]

For crying out loud.

I'm not even going to beat around the bush on this one. There is no "I don't believe in evolution." It exists and it has been proven. Saying "it's just a theory" just makes you look like a moron. A theory is functional and addresses a phenomenon adequately, when common people use "theory" they mean a guess. I suppose that the Einstein-Cartan Theory, Partial Impact Theory, and the Theory of Relativity are just guesses and shouldn't be taken seriously.

I don't believe in creation because religion has no place in the scientific community. Faith is defined as "just knowing" without requiring any proof, which is contrary to scientific progress. To be content with the answer "well I don't know so I guess God did it" stunts progress. I don't know how life came into being. And I'm okay with that. I'm willing to do research and try to find out; I don't need a filler answer to hold its place.

I'd also like to add that humans did not "come from monkeys" and if someone says it again I will jump off a balcony.

[Lord Raven]

humans came from monkeys, science is false

[Atom]

For crying out loud.

I'm not even going to beat around the bush on this one. There is no "I don't believe in evolution." It exists and it has been proven. Saying "it's just a theory" just makes you look like a moron. A theory is functional and addresses a phenomenon adequately, when common people use "theory" they mean a guess. I suppose that the Einstein-Cartan Theory, Partial Impact Theory, and the Theory of Relativity are just guesses and shouldn't be taken seriously.

I don't believe in creation because religion has no place in the scientific community. Faith is defined as "just knowing" without requiring any proof, which is contrary to scientific progress. To be content with the answer "well I don't know so I guess God did it" stunts progress. I don't know how life came into being. And I'm okay with that. I'm willing to do research and try to find out; I don't need a filler answer to hold its place.

I'd also like to add that humans did not "come from monkeys" and if someone says it again I will jump off a balcony.

This this this. Evolution pretty much proves itself just by making more sense than any religion out there, but there's loads of evidence from practically every field of science.

I don't need an answer to everything out there. Learning as much as I can while I have the chance is enough for me without cheapening life by adding unnecessary supernatural elements to it. The natural world is fascinating enough by itself without needing a god figure to babysit it.

[Sarge]

Even THE POPE says that evolution is true. Seriously, folks.

“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”

There is no question that evolution is happening at this moment all around the world even though it happens too slowly for us to observe at a glance. If you expect to be able to observe a lizard evolving into a dragon in the real world, you need to spend less time playing Poke'mon. The theory itself is still being revised as we learn more about genetics and uncover more of the fossil record, which is normal for any scientific theory. Even the theory of gravity has changed as new information became availible to scientists (Newton never wrote E = MC2, Albert Einstine did - more than 200 years later!).

I'm not anti-religion. I fully respect a person's right to believe in an invisible diety which neither I nor they can perceive except through the power of faith.

But faith is based on faith, while science is based on reason. Faith is not science and science is not faith. Period.