[X] My Assistant

[Rugal]

The major reason why booze is permitted is because historically societies have loved to get plastered on occasion, the government loves taxing it and there's no real quick streamlined process to make it in large quantities that doesn't involve heavy machinery that's necessarily easy to hide from plain sight. Another reason why Weed is illegal, and will stay illegal is that due to the methods of getting it give major leeway of it being an akimbo with something far more powerful/lethal/addictive for that ultimate high. I'm all for it's legalization and the taxing the living fuck outta it but there's really no practical reason for that to happen because "Bags of Cash Under the Table" have been a staple of underworld trade since forever.

[Reyo]

About what? If its the lack of crops, people who'll be interested on it would simply invest on industrial hemp. And I think it could be a very successful investment by saying that its eco-friendly and all that trendy shit.

Lyster H. Dewe and Jason L. Merrill from the US Department of Agriculture[/url], concluded that paper made from hemp pulp was favorable over wood pulp.
Although today is more expensive due to the lack of crops.

And I highly doubt that calling it "all that trendy shit" will do much good. Sure, saying "it'e eco friendly" will get the attention of some eco-nuts, but what about the people who will REFUSE to do something just becase the econuts are doing it? Besides, would YOU be investing in hemp rope and similar hemp products? What are you investing in right now?

Well, I think that's a personal opinion. Because people don't smoke it as much as everyone thinks.
And in my opinion, I do think much more people would buy it retail.

How do you know that? Have you taken a poll of every single person in this country? How did you compensate for people who lied about whether or not they smoked? What logic do you have to think that such a thing is true? Is that logic based on inferences, or assumptions?

You can't just say "Well that's personal opinion, and since my personal opinion of that is different, you have to hold it as valid." There are such things as falsifiable opinions.

The government can make money of it.. not that much, but as much as tobacco.

How do you figure?

[Gati]

I do think that it will help. This is another personal opinion and I do think that it will be successful because also by saying that people in the past used it all the time and that even the declaration of Independence was drafted on paper made from hemp fibers and many other examples.

It is estimated that about 43% of the people in the U.S have tried it in one point in their lifetime, which most likely reduces for constant users.

By the tax that they'll want to put on it.

[Reyo]

I do think that it will help. This is another personal opinion and I do think that it will be successful because also by saying that people in the past used it all the time and that even the declaration of Independence was drafted on paper made from hemp fibers and many other examples.

It is estimated that about 43% of the people in the U.S have tried it in one point in their lifetime, which most likely reduces for constant users.

By the tax that they'll want to put on it.

Ok, I know that people will take one look at that and say "so what?" What difference does it really make that the Declaratyion of independence is written on hemp paper? What difference does it make that a good chunk of people people smoke weed all the time/have tried it at least once in their lives? We've already established that the main problem is the fact that producing things out of hemp would be more expensive for the first couple of years, not that marijuana is to be legalized because once it's proven to be profitable to the government, it'll be legalized.

And while we're on that, what is the fact that people smoke weed really going to do? All that does is say that people use hemp for recreational purposes. It doesn't solve the problem that weed is easier to grow and prepare than alcohol or tobacco. It doesn't fix the problem that more people would rathor buy from a dealer at a dollar or two cheaper than a company. Putting a tax on it wouldn't help since people would just continue buying from their regular dealers at half the cost. I'm asking you what you propose we do to make it where it's not only cost effective to produce the hemp products, but more beneficial to the government since THEY'RE the ones who would be making this decision.

You don't propose an idea by showing the benefits it has to the general public alone, you propose an idea by showing the benefits it has to the one making the choice. If you do that by showing how the benefit on the general public benefits the one making the choice, then so be it, but the one making the decision needs to benefit in order for something to be done in your favor.

[Gati]

Yes, it wouldn't be as much profitable at first because of the crops and the lack of equipment for it, though the equipment could be transported from France. However, hemp does grows rapidly and doesn't have much diseases.
The declaration of Independence would mainly go for propaganda, which made it illegal in the first place.

That is still a personal opinion, Reyo. Just like you told me at first, "How do you know that? Have you taken a poll of every single person in this country?"
I still think of it as movies, that people do buy them for much cheaper or just download 'em for free, but more people still buy them.
It is not only the government, like I said before, that companies also influence both the public and the government.

The main idea of this, is to both the taxation and cheapness of it. Hemp not only is easier to grow but it also contains a stronger fiber content than cotton. Plus the medical purposes of it, and even building material making concrete stronger. Bottom line, it is cheaper than other materials but that is, if future competitive companies stay quiet.

[Reyo]

Yes, it wouldn't be as much profitable at first because of the crops and the lack of equipment for it, though the equipment could be transported from France. However, hemp does grows rapidly and doesn't have much diseases.
The declaration of Independence would mainly go for propaganda, which made it illegal in the first place.

As shown through the denial of ecofriendly cars, the government thinks in terms where it has to be profitable RIGHT NOW or it doesn't get endorcements.

That is still a personal opinion, Reyo. Just like you told me at first, "How do you know that? Have you taken a poll of every single person in this country?"
I still think of it as movies, that people do buy them for much cheaper or just download 'em for free, but more people still buy them.
It is not only the government, like I said before, that companies also influence both the public and the government.

The point I'm trying to make is that your opinion is coming more from blatent assumptions of how YOU see things and not through inferencing. I'm saying that the government won't pass it because of the profits, and from what I've learned in my history classes. As I said before, in the 1970's, electric powered cars were denied because of the fact that "It'd take 30 years for it to come to fruition." The government thinks of things in terms of NOW. Not later, NOW. History has shown us that the government will refuse to pass something because of lack of immediate profit, and as I've said before all it takes is the American population to continue buying from their suppliers at half the price of what the formal smoke shops are selling it for. Why do you think 99 cent stores or doller trees exist? They can get things like ramen and candy from Walmart or Target, but the doller tree's less expensive, so people buy from doller tree and not Walmart, and if you think about it, it makes sense. Why would you pay 5 dollars or something that you can get at the 99 cent store for 99 cents? The government knows this. They know that it's just too damn easy to grow weed, so they'll have almost no control over it. They also know that all the dealers would have to do is sell their supply for less than the stores and they would get most of the profits and NOT pay a dime to the federal government. Yes, people will buy weed from formal stores, but will it be enough? I don't think so, and I've just told you why.

The main idea of this, is to both the taxation and cheapness of it. Hemp not only is easier to grow but it also contains a stronger fiber content than cotton. Plus the medical purposes of it, and even building material making concrete stronger. Bottom line, it is cheaper than other materials but that is, if future competitive companies stay quiet.

Again, bro. You can tell me about how it's so easy to grow (which is something I already know, mind you) and how it's stronger than rope, but you have to prove to the guys at white house that THEY'LL benefit from it.

[Rugal]

Yes, it wouldn't be as much profitable at first because of the crops and the lack of equipment for it, though the equipment could be transported from France. However, hemp does grows rapidly and doesn't have much diseases.
The declaration of Independence would mainly go for propaganda, which made it illegal in the first place.

It wouldn't profitable at all because anyone with access to Google or insert preferred search engine here could grow it in their basement for a far lower cost then a huge plantation and not be arrested for it.

I still think of it as movies, that people do buy them for much cheaper or just download 'em for free, but more people still buy them.

Back in the late 90s Napster made it hilariously easy to download music without paying for it. After it got gunned down by the RIAA it kind of fell off the radar. The reason why it isn't so publicized nowadays is that Bittorrent isn't exactly the most tech-retard friendly system of pirating shit out there.

It is not only the government, like I said before, that companies also influence both the public and the government.

Son I live in Chicago, we still have some cases of the Chicago Outfit bribing officials. For those who don't know, the Chicago outfit was the Mafia family headed by none other then Al Capone himself back in the 20s.

The main idea of this, is to both the taxation and cheapness of it. Hemp not only is easier to grow but it also contains a stronger fiber content than cotton. Plus the medical purposes of it, and even building material making concrete stronger. Bottom line, it is cheaper than other materials but that is, if future competitive companies stay quiet.

Cotton has historically been a major cash crop to southeastern states, and I don't think they'd be all too willing to embrace hemp as a new crop when Cotton already has HUGE marketable value, predominately in almost all our clothing we wear today. Plus with the common practice of burning fields to get supplimental amounts of Nitrogen back into the soil for the next season could get citizens of entire counties contact-high. That spells a PR disaster if I ever saw one. Economically, people are naturally wired for instant-gratification. If something doesn't immediately benefit them they'll more often denounce a change in the system then accept it. This is why technological advancements traditionally aren't utilized in the slightest for at least 5 years after a complete working and manufacturable model for commercial use.

[Gati]

I know that. Which is why the country is the shape is in now.

It is the same thing that you said before and my response is the same.

Is not only the president. For it to pass many people would need to convince many politicians.
However, the U.S will be one of the last countries to pass this shit.

@ boy
Same shit Reyo is saying.

Napster was the first and other file sharing programs base on that. Downloading something today is much easier and faster.

I'm talking about nationwide, and nationwide is the fat-cats that bribe the politicians.

Did I say that we should replace cotton?
I only said that hemp has a higher fiber content, and hemp can be used for more things than cotton, I did not said that we should replace it.

This post has been edited by Gati: Mar 24 2010, 05:57 PM

[Reyo]

I know that. Which is why the country is the shape is in now.

It is the same thing that you said before and my response is the same.

Is not only the president. For it to pass many people would need to convince many politicians.
However, the U.S will be one of the last countries to pass this shit.

@ boy
Same shit Reyo is saying.

Napster was the first and other file sharing programs base on that. Downloading something today is much easier and faster.

I'm talking about nationwide, and nationwide is the fat-cats that bribe the politicians.

Did I say that we should replace cotton?
I only said that hemp has a higher fiber content, and hemp can be used for more things than cotton, I did not said that we should replace it.

And now we're at the real root of the problem. What's wrong with today isn't that hemp is illegal, it's that something needs to be changed in the way our government works. As soon as that change happens, I have no doubts that hemp will be legalized, but for now I just don't see it happening.

[Gati]

And now we're at the real root of the problem. What's wrong with today isn't that hemp is illegal, it's that something needs to be changed in the way our government works. As soon as that change happens, I have no doubts that hemp will be legalized, but for now I just don't see it happening.

Boom, exactly. That is why I made this topic, why it should stay illegal.
There is nothing clear as of why, and I also highly doubt that it'll be legal any time soon. Because unfortunately, our current president wants to do something and right way "NO, socialist!"
I think the only thing is for individual states to do what Oregon did, some states are already doing so (Vermont and North Dakota). Nationwide.. I highly doubt it too.

[Reyo]

And now we're at the real root of the problem. What's wrong with today isn't that hemp is illegal, it's that something needs to be changed in the way our government works. As soon as that change happens, I have no doubts that hemp will be legalized, but for now I just don't see it happening.

Boom, exactly. That is why I made this topic, why it should stay illegal.
There is nothing clear as of why, and I also highly doubt that it'll be legal any time soon. Because unfortunately, our current president wants to do something and right way "NO, socialist!"
I think the only thing is for individual states to do what Oregon did, some states are already doing so (Vermont and North Dakota). Nationwide.. I highly doubt it too.

One baby step at a time, bro. One baby step at a time.

[Lord Raven]

please everyone educate me with their side of the debate so i don't have to go through 30 posts of back and forths about what seems to be nothing. i want to jump in too cause i have heavy opinions about drugs.

[Gati]

I blame Reyo.
Basically, I made this topic to get opinions of people who believe that hemp should stay illegal. And there were none.
If we talk about other drugs than it'll go way off-topic.. again..

I know you believe that all drugs should be legal, Raven. So I don't think this is the thread for it

[Reyo]

I blame Reyo.
Basically, I made this topic to get opinions of people who believe that hemp should stay illegal. And there were none.
If we talk about other drugs than it'll go way off-topic.. again..

I know you believe that all drugs should be legal, Raven. So I don't think this is the thread for it

To be fair, I posted what I did to show you more why it will stay illegal. My stance isn't really that it should stay illegal. I'm one of those nondruggies who would vote for it to be legalized, and then continue not giving a damn about the people who smoke it. Everyone knows that it should be legalized, but most things that should be are still not.

I guess my view is more like Raven's, except I'm a little more in the middle.

EDIT: lol Raven, you want to get in some epic debate with someone who has the mindset that all drugs are the devil, don't you?

[Lord Raven]

you'd be surprised how unwilling i am to go through that again, but what needs to be done needs to be done.


so there's three pages of debate that's going nowhere? that's some good shit. you're arguing over a nice, shitty, minor point overall.

[Reyo]

you'd be surprised how unwilling i am to go through that again, but what needs to be done needs to be done.


so there's three pages of debate that's going nowhere? that's some good shit. you're arguing over a nice, shitty, minor point overall.

I'm not going to get in some big, heated debate with you over an opinion that we both share. No matter how much you want to.

[Lord Raven]

i personally think marijuana has a shot at being legalized. the rest, not at all, but it's being voted on in California this coming november

[Rugal]

@ boy
Same shit Reyo is saying.

Napster was the first and other file sharing programs base on that. Downloading something today is much easier and faster.

Sorry for not exactly immediately replying to this because I don't exactly frequent this forum like others. Downloading shit is faster because we have a hell of a lot faster internet access then back in those days. Plus many Gnutella network clients (I.E. Limewire, Frostwire, etc.) are now owned by private corporations that collaborate with the feds and MPAA. And the fact that people who generally use these are tech retards they're at a much greater risk of getting slammed by a million dollar suit for roughly $24 in initial "damages" to the recording industry

I'm talking about nationwide, and nationwide is the fat-cats that bribe the politicians.

Nationwide as in the insurance company? What about all the other corrupt corporations who do this at a far greater scale?

Did I say that we should replace cotton?
I only said that hemp has a higher fiber content, and hemp can be used for more things than cotton, I did not said that we should replace it.

I never did either if I recall correctly. I'm all for embracing new ideas and shit but I don't see how it'll make a significant economical impact fast enough. There's a reason why some inventions succeed and others fail, and with the way things work, there'll probably be a newer and better thing and people will forget about adopting hemp altogether. Plus I really don't know how you could machine Hemp-based clothing. But eh, leave that to the fashion industry, if they wanna push something through they tend to do a damn good job at it.

tl;dr the feds gotta make something happen otherwise all we can do is speculate.

[Furious George]

Hemp is legal in many areas if it has been bred/treated to reduce the concentration of THC.