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Posted by: Shoutai Jun 15 2008, 10:03 PM

weeeeee.. I was looking for a topic to start a thread... =D

Now, Evolution Theory or God?
wich do u believe in?

I wanna See some opinions before I post mine,so I can see the level of the discussion... =]

LETS START DEBATING!!!

Posted by: Akane Jun 15 2008, 10:06 PM

Evolution, it's scientific and what most people go for. I've never believed in creation, even at an early age. Doesn't mean God can't exist.

Posted by: Shoutai Jun 15 2008, 10:14 PM

not questioning whether God exists or not, just the theory u believe in...

I thought U would post something a lot bigger... T__T

anyway...
I believe in God and His Theory... I was raised that way and It allways made sense to me...
I cant really manage tosee humans evolving from monkeys...

And if we did, why dont we see monkeys turninng into people nowadays?
I believe in Evolution cuz Ive seen proof of it, and I like it...
But, i dont believe we came to be BECAUSE of evolution... I think Evolution came to be because of us... =x

Posted by: Akane Jun 15 2008, 10:18 PM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 15 2008, 11:14 PM)

Posted by: Shoutai Jun 15 2008, 10:30 PM

what u say does make sense... U seem to know quite a lot about the subject...

But... i really dont believe in coincidences... They happen WAY too much around for me to believe it doesnt have a meaning...
and I found a meaning in God's theory... not to mention I dont really see a purpose for us being alive on Earth looking at us through the evolution theory... do u?

Posted by: Akane Jun 15 2008, 10:34 PM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 15 2008, 11:30 PM)

Posted by: Shoutai Jun 16 2008, 08:55 AM

I duno...
I think we all have a purpose.. Of course... we have to search for it...
But were not here for no reason...

I believe the Biggest Evolution there is, is the Interior one...

Posted by: Akane Jun 16 2008, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 16 2008, 09:55 AM)

Posted by: Fallen Archangel Jun 16 2008, 09:52 AM

I believe in both.

I was raised Catholic, went to catholic school, still do. My old school was stupid/moronic and claimed Darwin was a complete retard and his theory was bullshit. My high school is MORE Catholic and BELIEVES in the theory. It's been proven it exists. God exists. God created evolution to create humans. We are God's greatest creation. It is what Catholics believe.

Posted by: Akane Jun 16 2008, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(Fallen Archangel @ Jun 16 2008, 10:52 AM)

Posted by: Shoutai Jun 16 2008, 09:58 AM

no... akane...
interior evolution I mean Mind...
=x

Posted by: Akane Jun 16 2008, 09:59 AM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 16 2008, 10:58 AM)

Posted by: Shoutai Jun 16 2008, 11:16 AM

hmm...

Spiritual evolution...
Becoming a better person to reach enlightment..(think i spelled it wrong)...
Ghandi said something of the sort didnt he?

Posted by: Akane Jun 16 2008, 11:22 AM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 16 2008, 12:16 PM)

Posted by: shadow the hedgehog Jun 16 2008, 11:56 AM

i believe in both.

i dont know if my ideas correspond with the catholic church, but i am catholic and i believe that science and religion should fit together. i've been having this argument with some people at skool and they believe that God just created the world and everything in it the way that the Bible explains. i do not take the Bible literally; i think its meant to be taken symbolically. well, some things are to be taken literally, but not all of it, especially not the creation story. evolution is a proven theory and i think God just set the foundations slowly over time.

Posted by: Captain Douglas Jay Falcon Jun 16 2008, 01:09 PM

I'm quite moderately agnostic, I'd say, so that's the God part covered. And I also believe in evolution; it's basically been proved and I honestly don't doubt it; I fully agree with the principles of Natural Selection (and I held those beliefs before I even learned about it) and stuff.

Posted by: empoleon dynamite Jun 16 2008, 01:22 PM

QUOTE(Captain Douglas Jay Falcon @ Jun 16 2008, 07:09 PM)

Posted by: Akane Jun 16 2008, 01:38 PM

QUOTE(empoleon dynamite @ Jun 16 2008, 02:22 PM)

QUOTE(Captain Douglas Jay Falcon @ Jun 16 2008, 07:09 PM)

And I also believe in evolution; it's basically been proved and I honestly don't doubt it;

Atualy it hasn't. People have never found a part human - part monkey before (burried of course). Although it is highly likely, there is no scientific evidence to back this up. Its like saying, if you throw thousands of parts of a watch in the air enough times, a watch will eventualy be formed.

Posted by: Captain Douglas Jay Falcon Jun 16 2008, 02:12 PM

QUOTE(empoleon dynamite @ Jun 16 2008, 02:22 PM)

QUOTE(Captain Douglas Jay Falcon @ Jun 16 2008, 07:09 PM)

And I also believe in evolution; it's basically been proved and I honestly don't doubt it;

Atualy it hasn't. People have never found a part human - part monkey before (burried of course). Although it is highly likely, there is no scientific evidence to back this up. Its like saying, if you throw thousands of parts of a watch in the air enough times, a watch will eventualy be formed.

Posted by: Swordsalmon Jun 16 2008, 10:21 PM

I'd recommend changing the title to "Evolution or Creationalism?". I think it would make more sense.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure evolution is the more likely path to life. I mean, everything adapts, which has been proven. When there's enough adaption for a particular enviornment, that particular branch of species could be considered a new animal occasionally; evolution.

Posted by: Shoutai Jun 17 2008, 09:17 AM

of course evolution exists...
I believe in it but I dont think thats how we were created...

A while back we had 4 extra teeth, used to crush food...
Nowadays, some people are born without them, and those that have them take them out...
for they arent necessary anymore... =x
and also... I really dont think that we just came to be because of an explosion...
THe Human Mind is an incredilble machine and not in a million years will some1 invet something more advanced then the human brain.
Could such a machinery be created through simply an explosion, then evolution of cells?
I dont think so...

not to mention I find it Highly unlikely that we were once tadpoles...



and I wont change the name of the thread for it says exactly what I meant to say... =x
Unless some mod changes it... xD

Posted by: Etnie Jun 18 2008, 09:28 PM

I'm agnostic and my entire family is Baptist/protestant. so I'm the oddball in my family but they don't know i'm agnostic.
Evolution happens- yes. Evolution is how we came to be- I don't think so in my opinion. I think that we were created some how.
But when I try to accept "we evolved from lesser forms" It just doesn't feel right, you know.

Posted by: Akane Jun 20 2008, 01:14 PM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 17 2008, 10:17 AM)

of course evolution exists...
I believe in it but I dont think thats how we were created...

A while back we had 4 extra teeth, used to crush food...
Nowadays, some people are born without them, and those that have them take them out...
for they arent necessary anymore... =x
and also... I really dont think that we just came to be because of an explosion...
THe Human Mind is an incredilble machine and not in a million years will some1 invet something more advanced then the human brain.
Could such a machinery be created through simply an explosion, then evolution of cells?
I dont think so...

not to mention I find it Highly unlikely that we were once tadpoles...



and I wont change the name of the thread for it says exactly what I meant to say... =x
Unless some mod changes it... xD

Posted by: Jeffrey Aug 16 2008, 08:53 AM

The real question here is this: why, throughout man's history, have we never bene able to compromise between these two poles? People discuss this subject as though Creationism and Evolution are both means to the same end, all the while neglecting to notice that both theories can exist in relative harmony with eachother, side by side.

Divine intelligence creates life. Life evolves. Is this not the simplest notion you've ever heard? I can't comprehend why so many people are hell-bent on choosing one extreme over the other.

Now, I'm not saying this is the way life flourished on Earth, or even that this is what I believe in. What I am saying is that in every debate there is always room for adjustment of these extremes.

Posted by: Shady Aug 18 2008, 09:08 PM

This is a topic that I find very fascinating. Personally, I believe in Evolution, however, I don't claim that there is no god. We don't know how God would choose to do his work. Perhaps he, by design, allows organisms to adapt to their environments to better serve themselves.

And Jeffrey brings up a good point. Looking through this topic, I have seen a lot of people that believe in the "compromise" between Evolution and Creationism. The relatively unimportant people can agree, while those whose opinion is far more likely to make a difference in the big scheme of things refuse to listen to the other side. I think this would be because The theory of Evolution is the "scientific" view, which is "what can be theorized, discovered, and backed up with evidence", while the Creationist theory relies purely on faith.

Posted by: Camerin Aug 18 2008, 09:13 PM

evolution and God
God directed our evolution specificly, and gave us a BIG brain.

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 18 2008, 11:06 PM

To me, God is actually more believable than evolution. After all it IS a theory, meaning it hasn't been 100% proven. In fact, Darwin himself points out the theory's "downfalls" in his Origin of Species somewhere.

What triggers evolution? And why only certain species evolve? Take the giraffe, for example. How come it was the only animal who thought of stretching out its neck to eat from the taller trees? As somebody pointed out, the 'missing link' hasn't been discovered. No one has ever found an intermediate species (A half-necked giraffe, if you may). Of course, the findings of fossils cannot be denied, they are there for the world to see. But how exactly do we know they are linked to humans? Monkeys today still kinda look like us, yet they're a different species.

Evolution theory claims that somewhere in time, some billions of years ago, particles of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen decided to come together and create life. (At least, is what I understand). If this is true, how come with all the technology we have we are not able to recreate this? What makes those particles create life and who is behind it? Certainly not us, that's for sure. If we were, scientists would be creating life by merely putting these four elements together. Is life random, then? Or is there a purpose? Did you know that it has been astronomically proven that our position in the universe allows us to actually explore and 'look out' into space? Were we on a slightly different spot, the orbit would be changed dramatically. And we'd probably be too close or too far from the Sun to sustain life.

Any respectable scientist will agree that there is intelligent design behind nature. This requires a Creator, a Mastermind behind it all. Evolution is too random. I believe in a Creator God with a specific plan and purpose for His Creation.

Posted by: Shady Aug 19 2008, 05:48 AM

A theory is a tested model of the interaction of natural phenomena. It can help to predict future occurances and other observations that can be tested through experiment. The label of "Theory" is relatively hard to obtain, and a being "only a theory" doesn't reduce Evolution's credibility.

When animals evolve (assuming they evolve), they don't do so in response to the environment. It is a random genetic mutation, and, if it fits the environment better, the animal that mutated will have an easier time surviving, and pass down its genes containing the mutation. Its children will then have the gene, and will have the same advantage, and they pass down the gene etc. The reason the Giraffe is the only animal that evolved to have a longer neck is because that helps the Giraffe survive. All other animals have other means of obtaining food, they don't need a longer neck.

I am a little bit fuzzy on the creation of Earth and the beginning of life, but I will try to contribute as intelligently and constructively as possible. When Life first appeared, conditions where far different from what they are now. We don't know exactly what they where like, either (at least, I don't think we do). Even so, creating new life (other than through reproduction) seems an extremely daunting task. We can do some amazing things, but I don't believe that we are anywhere close to being able to throw four compounds together and create bacteria or whatever with them.

I never really knew about the astronomy you discussed in your post, thats really cool. I want to look into this further now...

Anyways, I disagree about your comment on respectable scientists believing in a god. Gods aren't something that can really be scientifically proven (or knocked down), so I wouldn't say that they are a staple in scientific beliefs. However, that doesn't mean that any respectable scientist won't believe in god.

A common argument is brought up about evolution on the eye and its randomness. A lot of creationists take the eye, and say that it needs the Retina, the Lens, the Pupil, the Iris, and all the other intricate parts of the eye to work. Furthermore, any part of the eye would be useless without the other parts, and so many mutations would have to occur at the same time, and the chances of that mutation producing an Eye are extremely low. However, there is a species of clam that has small light receptors, which are essentially a few (modified) parts of a common eye thrown together. However, I like to think of this as "the eye is just what we got stuck with". We really don't have any way of knowing what COULD have been in place of the eye, should have the mutation occurred a different way.

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 19 2008, 12:23 PM

But still, nobody really knows what is the trigger for evolution and said mutations cannot be proven by testing. It is only assuming they took place that we guess who came before who and such. Of course, it's no longer a Hypothesis, either.

Also, the Giraffe would do just fine without its long neck, as it can survive on leaves and twigs. True, it has an advantage by having its long neck, as different food is available to it, but still it doesn't answer the question of why the Giraffe is the only ruminant with a long neck.

The astronomy bit I found on a website a while ago. I believe it was called something like "God in science" or something similar. Of course, if you'd like you could ignore the Creationism in it and just marvel at the wonders of nature.

As for my comment about respectable scientists, I believe I phrased it wrong. My point was that any respectable scientist would agree that there is intelligent design behind nature, a reason for things to be exactly what they are (like our position in the Milky Way and such). Whether they call this God or Nature is a different matter. Sorry it got misunderstood.

I didn't know that about the eye, that's very neat. I think that's probably the main reason why I don't believe in Evolution, it being so random, that is. When you look at nature, it's not random. A ladybug can accurately predict how bad the first snowfall will be. Gravity is not random. In fact, it is so stable that scientists today base all their theories about the creation of the universe (or its eternal presence) assuming this Law, along with many others, were in motion then as they are now.

So, to sum up my point: I don't believe in Evolution because it's random

Posted by: the quiet quilava Aug 19 2008, 12:34 PM

i am going to say, i don't believe in god.
the only proof of his being is a book that has been altered 50 times and churces.
evolution is the only possible idea,
and sorry to tell you missy, if evolution is so random, how do you explain monkeies, dna, or homo erectus*giggle*

@ shoutai: we didnt start out as tadpoles, persay. we were bro from a "primadoria soup" of sorts, containing nutrient rich, life giving water. our entire body is made out of cells, which thrive off nutrients. what better place for cells to start reproducing than in a pool of water COMPOSED of the nutrients it needs?


the idea of god is just stupid. and here is my argument for why i say so, before i have a billion people up my ass about it.
where do people get the idea that some man/girl/whatever decides, you know what? i think i am gonna make people today. *poof, snap of the fingers* adam says, "hey man, i need to get laid!" god: "well, lay back, smoke some pot, im gonna take a rib out."


HOW THE FUCK IS A RIB TURNED INTO BONING MATERIAL?


IMO, god doesn't exist.
there is my explaination.

Posted by: johnrichard1991 Aug 19 2008, 12:39 PM

If you're talking pokemon, it's just a more powerful form.

In real life, I think If you combine features of two people long enough, there might be some change sooner or later.

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 19 2008, 01:19 PM

If the Bible is just a book, it has the same credibility as any other book. What gives more credibility to a science book than the Bible? If they were both, technically, written by men, they should have the same base credibility stat, so to speak.

Furthermore, the Bible itself hasn't been changed, per se. Different versions/translations have spawned, some of which are not accurate or have been edited. A perfect example is the Catholic Bible, in which the word Trinity is added to a verse (because it is nowhere found in the original). If you actually took the time to read it, you'd find that many churches are in the wrong. A good example is the concept of heaven and hell, which the Bible disproves and it actually enforces the doctrine of a resurrection when Jesus Christ returns.

As for Eve coming from Adam's rib, it's a matter of personal beliefs. Remember, though, 100 years ago nobody could even imagine the destructive power of an atomic bomb, yet here it is today threatening all life on the planet. I suppose it takes a little faith, if you want to call it something.

To go back to topic, DNA is a perfect example of design behind nature. Evolution claims that genetic mutations (or changes in DNA structure) are random. They happen at some point, apparently triggered by the environment to increase a certain species' rate of survival. Then, if Evolution were true, why are monkeys still here? Wouldn't we be the pinnacle of their evolutionary chain? If we are the evolved versions of them, we are the survivors.

I do not mean to offend anyone, by the way.

Posted by: empoleon dynamite Aug 19 2008, 01:49 PM

QUOTE(Missy Artichoke @ Aug 19 2008, 07:19 PM)

QUOTE(Missy Artichoke @ Aug 19 2008, 07:19 PM)

Posted by: Pumpkin King Aug 19 2008, 01:57 PM

QUOTE(Missy Artichoke @ Aug 19 2008, 12:06 AM)

Posted by: Shoutai Aug 19 2008, 03:50 PM

hmm.. Im not going into this topic too much right now cu ]z I dont have a lot of time... but To all of you, dont think everyone here reads the bible...
I dont and I am against evolution... the theory...

bah... Ill post more detailed thing later.. =x

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 19 2008, 04:09 PM

I'm for Creationism, God and the Bible. Against Evolution.

Humans are listed in the same biological family as gorillas and chimps, which leads me to believe that if we are the better species in that family, the gorillas shouldn't survive. They didn't evolve big brains like we did, or whatever.

QUOTE(Pumpkin King @ Aug 19 2008, 01:57 PM)

Posted by: Pumpkin King Aug 19 2008, 04:20 PM

QUOTE(Missy Artichoke @ Aug 19 2008, 05:09 PM)

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 19 2008, 04:35 PM

The reason, I think, why I can't put the both of them together in harmony (Evolution and Creationism, that is), is because I have proven to myself through independent study that the Bible is God's word. Since the Bible depicts a Creation that cannot be conceived in evolution, I have to stand on the Creationism side.

It is probably very silly for all of you, to think that I believe everything that is written in there. But then again, it is silly for me to think that primates and bats came from the same 'ancient' species. Or that beavers and whales are actually related.

It is all a matter of beliefs and opinions.

Posted by: the quiet quilava Aug 19 2008, 06:24 PM

>_>
you are ignorant to the facts i front of you. there is major pieces of evidence that point towards evolution, like monkies have 98% of shared dna with humans, among other things. were is the proof that the bible is telling the truth? creationism is about IDEAS that people had back then, evolution is about FACTS that are happening.
let me ask you one thing, missy.
how did the person who wrote the bible know that it took god 7 days to make the earth? how did he know that the snake told adam and eve to take the apple from the tree of eden?
you can't think that all people that are for evolution are stupid. i have read the bible, ON SEVERAL occasions,
but no matter how many times i read it, i still call it the biggest bullshit book i have ever read. OYU are the ignorant one, refusing to look at how evolution is the right answer to life, because you know that if you gave up your faith in your so-called "god", that you wouldnt have anyone else to blame the events that go on in the world but society itself.
now, go educate your self in all the subjects you feel like arguing about,before you go and make one-sided accusations such as that.

Posted by: Shoutai Aug 19 2008, 08:33 PM

QUOTE(the quiet quilava @ Aug 19 2008, 06:24 PM)

Posted by: Raven Aug 19 2008, 08:56 PM

Posted by: Swordsalmon Aug 19 2008, 08:57 PM

QUOTE(the quiet quilava @ Aug 19 2008, 10:34 AM)

Posted by: the quiet quilava Aug 19 2008, 11:31 PM

QUOTE(Raven @ Aug 19 2008, 09:56 PM)

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 20 2008, 10:13 PM

No worries, TQQ.

@Shoutai: In fact, the Bible itself commands you to PROVE for yourself all things and to not believe things just 'cause. (1 Thessalonians 5:21, if anyone is interested).

The Bible, as Swordsalmon pointed out, can be interpreted. Furthermore, the Bible interprets the Bible. There is no one word or one term that goes undefined in it. You just gotta look it up for yourself. It is really all there. Like the seven days example you used, Swordsalmon. In fact there IS a scripture in the Bible that states that for God a day is like a thousand years.

Also, the Bible is a compilation of books written throughout history. It was written by several people at different periods in time. For some, this means it has less credibility, I suppose. But I give it 'historical' credibility, as the events in the Bible are confirmed by other ancient cultures. For example, nearly all ancient cultures have a legend or story of the world at some point being covered in water. The Muslim religion acknowledges the existence of Jesus Christ. There are historical records in Egypt of when the Hebrews left for the Exodus. I could go on and on. But that would be off-topic.

Just out of curiosity, does anybody here know the actual Creation theory written in the Bible? (it goes beyond what's written in Genesis).

Posted by: Raven Aug 20 2008, 10:32 PM

Oh, Missy Artichoke... I have to refute some points, since I just tapped into my head some more and found some knowledge about evolution haha

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 20 2008, 10:53 PM

I forgot to mention that I didn't exactly meant we evolved directly from monkeys, and I obviously phrased it wrong. Earlier I said that the fact we are in the same family as chimps, gorillas and such made me wonder why we are still here. That is more what I meant but failed to phrase. I understand we don't come from monkeys and it was my mistake to generalize the term 'monkey', when I meant the Hominid family.

Raven, it does help, as a matter of fact. But there are things that still don't make sense to me. This world obviously works on a 'survival' way, I am not denying that. Lions eat antelopes and the slow/sick antelope is going to die. It's the whole 'ancestors' thing that throws me off. What is the purpose of having ancestors, in the first place? Of course, there are very old fossils that exist today and obviously humans weren't around when said creatures were actually alive. But what if humans were created after? Is there a need for us to come from something? (Just to clarify, these 'questions' are more like my own wondering, not necessarily direct questions demanding answers).

Posted by: Raven Aug 20 2008, 10:59 PM

I think I'm interpreting it right, but I'm not totally sure. I know it doesn't demand answers, but I still have two cents in regards to it.

Posted by: Viktoriya1998 Aug 21 2008, 06:35 AM

Evolution.If god made us,he'd known we'd kill animals and wreck up the planet with global warming.

Posted by: Missy Artichoke Aug 21 2008, 01:32 PM

QUOTE(Raven @ Aug 20 2008, 10:59 PM)

Posted by: pokepurist Aug 21 2008, 04:56 PM

I think god made everything and chose which ones would evolve into what, eventually guiding monkeys to humans etc.

Posted by: DethSlayr Aug 22 2008, 08:06 AM

I believe in God, and that he created us. No matter how you look at it really, I can still connect it with him. Like if we did evolve from monkeys... then who put the monkeys there in the first place?? God. So basically, my opinion is god has always been here, and he is the creator.

Posted by: Carmani Sep 29 2008, 08:22 PM

I have no religion.

I believe in chaos.

Just a theory. Because it works with me, so it's my reality..

There's a God...

There's a lot of Gods...

But just because u, me, us... Keep believing.

Posted by: Crystal Phoenix Oct 3 2008, 08:33 PM

I believe God made the Big Bang happen and gave Earth life. The life then evolved in to humans, therefore, God created humans.

Posted by: Filipe Couto Oct 12 2008, 11:09 AM

i think it is theory beacause the«ey ara pokemon that are more stronger then the evolutions but its diferent cases in all pokemon.

Posted by: ShivasDisciple Oct 12 2008, 11:21 AM

I think that the big bang didn't just happen the particles were made by god then he chose what species would evolve and created all the others as well.....

Posted by: Inu Ryu Oct 12 2008, 11:42 AM

My father is a paster for a deaf church. I just go along with what he says is true. I am Christian by the way.

Posted by: Wymsy Oct 12 2008, 09:35 PM

QUOTE(Filipe Couto @ Oct 12 2008, 09:09 AM)

QUOTE(Inu Ryu @ Oct 12 2008, 09:42 AM)

Posted by: Raven Oct 12 2008, 09:45 PM

Late but I had a new thoughtwave.

Posted by: Moist Oct 12 2008, 10:19 PM

well doesn't that just blow my mind, raven!


well said.

Posted by: The Serenity Spirit Oct 24 2008, 12:42 PM

Myself, I don't believe in God. I think that evolution is how we got here. The Big Bang (if that's what created the Earth) was, in my opinion, caused by particles, similar to black holes. Due to all that matter, some sort of living cell thing made its way into the new planet. It evolved into a fish, witch led to lizards, which led to dinosaurs, but many of these fish and lizards and stuff made their way into something else.

As for God, wouldn't he have stopped people from dying and someone from inventing bombs? I mean that, why would he let us live a life of horror? I'm not trying to stamp out anyone's beliefs, I'm just pondering about it.

I know half my ideas are probably just stupid and there isn't much point thinking about them.

Posted by: 00Weaville Nov 21 2008, 06:15 AM

Being a Catholic believing in GOD, I have had my doubts, I am open minded to the fact that science has a strong argument that the Big Bang theory occurred and the evolution factor seems to be accepted as there is sufficient evidence that supports this, bones and similarities between different species of animals and their ancestors and even the earlier humans. What made evolution, what was the catalyst? Maybe GOD made a catalyst so that ends can evolve but it states in the BIBLE that everything was created in 7 days and there were already humans. GOD is needed for stabilization in some peoples lives providing hope and order so that chaos does not exist, beliefs and rules are needed in a person's life so that one does not go off to the path of darkness and crime.

Posted by: Pixie Feb 20 2009, 02:13 PM

Evolution definately. It has been proven that evolution has happened and will continue to happen. Anyone who thinks it hasn't happened and is not real, needs to get a hold of themselves. But if they choose not to believe that then oh well.

Posted by: November 11 Feb 20 2009, 06:20 PM

I'm very much a man of science. But I also have a great love for religion and faith.

Science is this amazing thing, these wonderful theories that we, as humans, have conceived and invented and refined: the want to understand everything in our universe, to fit it all together in a form which makes sense.
Evolution, this amazing theory which we have come up with ourselves to explain our past. Not everyone may agree that it happened, but the fact that it all fits is beautiful. Too beautiful to ignore.

Same for the big bang- though doesn't the Big bang agree with Genesis anyway? Something created from nothing, in a sense, though of course that's not the whole story as far as science is concerned- but I won't make a fool of myself by trying to untangle it here xD;

Back to Genesis: it talks of Adam & Eve eating the fruit and gaining knowledge, and God speaks of Eve being made to suffer pain in childbirth. And of course when humans gained larger brains & walked upright- the pelvis cannot be too wide for the latter to be true, and this means that human childbirth is very painful: narrow pelvis & large skulls.
It may not prove anything, but it's interesting, because [inadvertently, perhaps] both stories again share a theory.

But I don't believe that the argument is black/white, right/wrong, God/evolution.
Yes, it's impossible to believe that life was created, poof, like that and, at the same time, that life evolved over millions of years, but there's nothing to say that evolution and God exist.

This all said, no, I cannot believe in creation in six days.
Mainly because life is not perfect, and if it was designed to the best of an omniscient being's ability [which would be the best possible], then surely it would be.
A common argument is the [human] eye: the eye is an amazing piece of machinery- there's no argument there. I'm not a biologist, but the more I learn about how the body works, how plants work and how the molecules function together, the more incredible I find it. It's just breathtaking, and I understand how it's difficult to imagine that all of this just fell together.
Except that, of course, evolution is not just things falling together. It's not a load of stuff put into a beaker, swilled around and poured out to make a person. It's millions and millions of years of trial and error, and we are the result at this time- of course, it hasn't stopped there.

Returning to the eye: No, it isn't perfect. The obvious flaw is the fact that so many people wear spectacles. If we are made in God's image, then is God short-sighted? 0o

Evolution and God are not on the same scale, as far as I'm concerned.
Science is fuel for the brain, stimulation for the mind and for logic, but faith is fuel for the heart and soul, it can give people a sense of purpose and hope and there's nothing wrong at all with wanting that.
[in concurrence with Weaville thar]


I have no idea if that post made sense or not.

Posted by: Twilight Spectrum Feb 22 2009, 04:47 AM

Aw, pity that this topic has only been brought back to life recently. Otherwise I'd have a bit more to talk about. XD;

And to add onto November 11's bit about the eye, here's a short youtube video that explains the early stages of its evolution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM-LcQZHg1M

Many people are very intent on calling evolution "just a theory" But the fact of the matter is, "theory" in science if different than the common use. The common definition of theory is "just a guess". The scientific definition of theory is "a group of general statements used as the explanation for observed phenomena".

The big slogan for many creationists is "we didn't evolve from monkeys". Which is right. We didn't. Monkeys and humans evolved from a common ancestor. And we don't see monkeys evolving into humans because evolution is slowwww and needs selecting forces...

I'm in Biology AP this year, and the more I learn about evolution the more I'm sure it's true.

Posted by: Typhlosion Feb 22 2009, 08:35 AM

QUOTE(the quiet quilava @ Aug 19 2008, 05:24 PM)

Posted by: Nathan Graves Feb 22 2009, 02:13 PM

Posted by: Swordsalmon Feb 22 2009, 04:19 PM

QUOTE(Nathan Graves @ Feb 22 2009, 01:13 PM)

Posted by: SR Meganium Forme Feb 22 2009, 08:09 PM

I didn't want to have a lifelong argument, so I decided to believe that God created evolution.

I wanted a compromise.

Posted by: Shiraoi Feb 23 2009, 10:09 AM

QUOTE(SR Meganium Forme @ Feb 22 2009, 08:09 PM)

I didn't want to have a lifelong argument, so I decided to believe that God created evolution.

I wanted a compromise.

Posted by: Polaris Feb 24 2009, 08:26 AM

I believe in a little of both. They both make sense.

Posted by: salochin Apr 11 2009, 04:06 PM

I personally think that God created evolution so that God would not have to step in constantly and change a species that can't survive or is forced to adapt to a new environment. Evolution is pretty obvious since the first human's were only about two feet tall, maybe three, Now most people are five or more feet tall.

Posted by: Nathan Graves Apr 11 2009, 04:46 PM

Yeah I'm not sure that's the most direct proof.

Bacteria and antibiotics is, though.

Posted by: Saya Apr 11 2009, 09:12 PM

I'm an open-minded person, however I find that facts are more believable than a man who supposedly lives in the sky. I have a lot of friends who are very religious, however, and we get along fine, because we don't force our beliefs on each other. The topic never comes up.

Posted by: lightbird Apr 13 2009, 10:05 AM

I'm a training scientist, so, I go for evolution (which has been proven, although not completely solved) rather than creationism, besides, I've always taken the Creation myth like a symbolical story.
All in all, I think that evolution isn't a matter of belief - it doesn't stop because YOU don't believe in it.

Posted by: nebz5 Apr 13 2009, 03:06 PM

I don't think its on or the other I think they kinda go together like if god exist he made the start and let evolution do the rest or you know something like that

Posted by: Dys Tuvai Apr 13 2009, 05:49 PM

One of the first things they teach you in Biology is that nothing is ever a proven fact. There's only the most likely hypothesis.

Evolution through natural selection IS a very likely hypothesis - it's a process that, at least on the surface, appears to be happening. Life seems to be a highly powerful adaptive force - and really, anyone who underestimates it and claims it isn't happening is either blind to what's going on around them or forcibly trying to nitpick to find holes in a theory they do not rightfully understand. Lightbird said it best - it doesn't stop happening because someone doesn't believe in it.

Quoting the sci-fi author Phillip K. Dick, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Of course, some people may make the same argument about Gods. But eh. xD

I'm a bit of an atheist - not a full-blown one as I don't fully deny the possibility of a supreme being, or beings, or maybe even the universe itself being aware and consciously or subconsciously influencing what we've come to accept as the laws of physics or facts. I do NOT however believe in the existence of the commonly-perceived deity of common monotheistic religions - which is far too human-like for my tastes. And so I don't support creationism - because honestly even science, which at some point states that we can't know for a fact what some things are (Heisenberg uncertainty principle anyone?) is a more likely hypothesis to me than something like that running the universe.

But ultimately, I don't really think it matters. I think that we'll never know what is really going on - it's far beyond our level of understanding - but it's perfectly all right to theorize, and as long as people respect each other's views, no harm done. >>;

Posted by: Kassi Apr 13 2009, 07:22 PM

For crying out loud.

I'm not even going to beat around the bush on this one. There is no "I don't believe in evolution." It exists and it has been proven. Saying "it's just a theory" just makes you look like a moron. A theory is functional and addresses a phenomenon adequately, when common people use "theory" they mean a guess. I suppose that the Einstein-Cartan Theory, Partial Impact Theory, and the Theory of Relativity are just guesses and shouldn't be taken seriously.

I don't believe in creation because religion has no place in the scientific community. Faith is defined as "just knowing" without requiring any proof, which is contrary to scientific progress. To be content with the answer "well I don't know so I guess God did it" stunts progress. I don't know how life came into being. And I'm okay with that. I'm willing to do research and try to find out; I don't need a filler answer to hold its place.

I'd also like to add that humans did not "come from monkeys" and if someone says it again I will jump off a balcony.

Posted by: Nathan Graves Apr 13 2009, 08:51 PM

humans came from monkeys, science is false

Posted by: Crunch Apr 13 2009, 10:54 PM

QUOTE(Kassi @ Apr 13 2009, 08:22 PM)

Posted by: Sarge Apr 15 2009, 12:36 AM

Even http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19956961/ says that evolution is true. Seriously, folks.

Posted by: Hikarii Apr 15 2009, 12:58 AM

-Bows to Sarge and Kassi.-

Posted by: trippy Apr 20 2009, 09:13 AM

Because magic/let there be light beats years of science any day, right?

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 15 2008, 10:14 PM)

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 15 2008, 10:30 PM)

Posted by: Airotia Apr 21 2009, 07:29 PM

I believe in Evolution. All the way.

Something that has always gotten me about the Bible is that, when all the animals and people died in the great flood thousands of years ago, there is no physical evidence of mass death in the... dirt. Somewhere, there should be a layer of pure skeleton. What, did God nab them and hide them away?

Evolution makes sense geologically (that dirt thing I just mentioned) and scientifically. o_O If I was a God, and I wanted people to believe in me, I'd still be publicly smiting people to prove my existence. Or I'd have an indestructible statue in my honor that will stand the test of time until I decide I'm bored with the planet.

'Sides, I hate to think that "God" would give overwhelming scientific evidence that he/she DOESN'T exist, and then punish the non-believers for all eternity.

Posted by: sportsfan666 Apr 21 2009, 08:10 PM

well cant it be both O_o?
god made mammals and who is to say he didnt want them to evolve in to humans...or maybe he didnt want humans at all.
we will never know untill.... God tells us.. which im guessing wont be soon ;~;.
i blame the first people or long ago people... o_O if we could wipe out are past we could actioly think logicaly without decades of thought blocking are brains..
long ago people= the people that made all the legends of why animals are why they are (like chuck norris scared some bears and they turned white and ran away to the north pole)

---
and no evolution cant go backwards have you learnt nothing from the pokemon world D;?
well virtual pixles and "real" things arent very much in common...

Posted by: Utradera Genesis Apr 21 2009, 08:15 PM

God.

I do believe in the Big-Bang theory, but then God created everything on the Earth, and such, within the Seven Days. The evolution idea seems crazy to me. I just don't understand how, even though it's over a million or two years, how a fish could evolve into a human. Nope, doesn't make sense.

Posted by: Yzarc Drowsnam Apr 21 2009, 08:42 PM

QUOTE(sportsfan666 @ Apr 21 2009, 08:10 PM)

Posted by: lightbird Apr 22 2009, 01:11 AM

QUOTE(Utradera Genesis @ Apr 22 2009, 03:15 AM)

Posted by: Sarge Apr 22 2009, 01:56 AM

QUOTE(Utradera Genesis @ Apr 21 2009, 06:15 PM)

Posted by: Zoreta Apr 25 2009, 11:35 AM

QUOTE(Utradera Genesis @ Apr 21 2009, 06:15 PM)

Posted by: FuzzieWuzzie May 23 2009, 01:03 PM

QUOTE(Airotia @ Apr 21 2009, 08:29 PM)

Posted by: Seadragon May 26 2009, 05:13 PM

Dear God, I hate topics like this. I personally believe in both theories. I believe God put animals on earth and let them evolve. But I hate topics that ask whether evolutionism or creationism is correct. On almost EVERY SITE I go to, there's one of these topics. And to show how much I them, I will post a topic about this I posted on another forum:

Posted by: Grovyle May 26 2009, 05:25 PM

Did you know that reptiles never stop growing until they die?

The bible teaches that everything lived 1000+ years in the Garden of Eden.

Posted by: RheaDark May 26 2009, 07:18 PM

.... hahaha seriously dude where do you get this stuff.

Evolution, I'm atheist, there is no higher power, huzzah!

Posted by: yupui May 26 2009, 07:30 PM

I'm a pantheist. Ergo, I make no distinction.

Here's something for you:
I believe that the deepest, truest nature of reality cannot be discovered nor understood by humans, and therefore there will never be a world that does not contain the perception of magic.

Here's another thing:
I do not believe evolution results in a greater being, merely a different one. Progress as defined by humans is a concept defined by arbitrary change, and holds no meaning in reference to the universe.

Posted by: Grovyle May 26 2009, 09:51 PM

@ Rheadark
So God is my god, and time is your god.
That's fine with me.

If only evolution didn't use tax dollars to indoctrinate children with lies...

Posted by: RheaDark May 27 2009, 05:02 PM

Time is not my "god." I don't believe in any sort of higher power. Time is a dimension to me. Get your facts straight and DON'T PUT YOUR DAMN WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

If only religion didn't preach the killing of gays, outlawing abortion... no eating seafood, no wearing mixed fibre clothing, no shaving your head...

WE SHOULD KILL ALL HOMOS, PEOPLE WHO'VE EATEN LOBSTER, AND PEOPLE WEARING FUNKEH CLOTHES, YEAH. Like religion doesn't use money itself... check out what the Vatican's got in its collections.

Lies? LIES? How is this process, recorded by scientists, a lie? How is it more of a lie than saying some invisible omnipotent being created Earth in seven days? I suppose the dinosaur bones are all to TRICK us, huh?

How is it indoctrination? It's taught in school as science. Science is not some sort of mystical voodoo thing like religion is. It's based on facts.

*Huffs* I is angry. Why do people like this exist? I say it's evidence that if there is a higher being, it's not a kind one.

Anyways... if you don't believe in evolution, you don't believe in factual information. If you don't believe the facts, then the world is just a big fuzzy dream. Wee, I can fly! *Gravity* *Splat*

Posted by: LucarioandDiagla May 27 2009, 05:25 PM

I don't believe in evoulution at all. It is not possible for a monkey to be like a human. sure they look like one. But the pig has organisms that are almost exactly like ours. heart, and liver. God makde everything. eveything is different. the earth was not made of an asteriod or whatever. think about. The earth is at a persice angle that if we were to move a milimeter away from the sun we would freeze upand die. if we moved a milimeter close we would burm up and die. and if there is anyone i against me i don't care. every one has differnet opions on everything. and i respect that. i am telling you my opion(and truth) and i hope that you will have some respect.

Posted by: lightbird May 27 2009, 05:54 PM

I agree with Rhea. I've always been abashed about how the religious mind perceives science as another kind of religion.

@LucarioandDialga - why not consider that life evolved according to the conditions the Earth was set into, not that the conditions were "made" for life to evolve?

Evolution isn't a matter of belief, but a fact.
However, one might say that from a technical point of view human evolution has slowed down due to us changing the environment, not the environment changing us, although that still happens, too, like emerging cases of HIV-infected individuals being immune to it. Yes, sure, this doesn't sound that profound, like a third arm or something of the fact, but before you - and that means most people denying evolution - make a statement what is evolution and how it works.. why not read a textbook or attend lectures held by scientists, who base their statements on experimental proofs, not belief, and actually learn something about it?

Posted by: geqcreature May 27 2009, 06:11 PM

The only reason that we have religion is because we are the only living being on Earth that knows about death so we came up with religion to cope with death.

But I want to think there is some unseen force but Im a very logical person.

So I believe in both, more on evolution though.

Posted by: yupui May 27 2009, 06:37 PM

QUOTE(LucarioandDiagla @ May 27 2009, 06:25 PM)

Posted by: Thaliel May 27 2009, 06:38 PM

First cmae creation, this then triggeres evolution...simple as that ^.^

Posted by: Sarge May 27 2009, 08:04 PM

QUOTE(Grovyle @ May 26 2009, 07:51 PM)

Posted by: Grovyle May 27 2009, 08:38 PM

No I am not Eric Hovind.
I do not know NEAR as much as he knows.
He has been a teacher, I am barely 17.
He did happen to change my mind.
AND I had no idea he has said that.

AND can you give the URL to the site plz.

Posted by: Sarge May 27 2009, 09:03 PM

QUOTE(Grovyle @ May 27 2009, 06:38 PM)

No I am not Eric Hovind.
I do not know NEAR as much as he knows.
He has been a teacher, I am barely 17.
He did happen to change my mind.
AND I had no idea he has said that.

AND can you give the URL to the site plz.

Posted by: Grovyle May 27 2009, 09:11 PM

He knows a lot. Just not everything that everyone else knows.
I have seen all of his videos. So that is no surprise there...

thanks for the url! =3

Posted by: laskuraska May 27 2009, 09:15 PM

Life evolved, it was not created. The idea of a magical creative force is nonsensical. Someone else will undoubtedly present all of my arguments more passionately than me, so with this I will disappear.

Posted by: Grovyle May 27 2009, 09:26 PM

Posted by: RheaDark May 27 2009, 09:42 PM

... you're blaming evolution and science for suicides?

You are obviously brainwashed.

There is no way to track if religion is linked to suicide exactly. Such studies would be "biased" because either religious nuts did it, or scientists did it and it'd be "biased" towards science.

Bah.

Besides, this personal creator also says stoning gays is fine, killing adultring wives is fine, divorce shouldn't happen, abortion shouldn't happen, eating seafood is bad, wearing mixed fibre clothing is bad...

Also, just as a general thing: http://i42.tinypic.com/2n6dcmt.jpg

Posted by: Sarge May 27 2009, 10:37 PM

It's really funny how you're copy pasting Eric Hovind's completely non-sensical arguements against evoultion. Yes, I've read them.

I choose you, PZ Meyers!

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 06:25 AM

I could go on and on in disproving evolution, but I won't.

As for the 'Model Earth'.
They made a model to fit their theory. That does not make the model true.

Posted by: Connie May 28 2009, 07:36 AM

I believe in evolution and i don't think god exists. Not just because of scientific proof just kinda because i do in the end

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 10:08 AM

QUOTE(Grovyle @ May 28 2009, 06:25 AM)

I could go on and on in disproving evolution, but I won't.

As for the 'Model Earth'.
They made a model to fit their theory. That does not make the model true.

Posted by: Seadragon May 28 2009, 05:17 PM

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 27 2009, 05:02 PM)

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 27 2009, 05:02 PM)

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 27 2009, 05:02 PM)

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 07:51 PM

First you tell me that evolution doesn't support killing 'inferior' people,
THEN you say THAT!?!
hypocrite...
No, I was pointing out that it's religion that says we should do such things... science doesn't support such things. Also, I never said anything about "inferior" people - you're the first to mention it. Stop putting your damn words in my mouth.

How many Christian are actually doing those thing?
None because society has changed since then.
Yes, society has changed. We've got science, which explains things that we once needed religion to "understand." Religion is no longer needed. Also, there are plenty of christians who advocate gay hate and racism.

Believing in something has absolutly NOTHING to do with believing facts.
I believe the Earth revolves around the Sun. So does that mean that that is no longer a fact?
No, but believing in something that has no evidence to support it as opposed to a lot of factual information means there's something wrong with your head.
Not believing in evolution doesn't change the fact that it is a real theory. Believing it doesn't make it less of a real theory.

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 08:05 PM

No facts?
Why then does the Earth look to have been ravaged by massive amounts of water in the past?

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 08:07 PM

lolwut? Do you know anything about Earth's history?

Are you suggesting that that's evidence of the great flood?

Also, posting a picture of Arizona doesn't really... add to whatever point you're trying to make. Give a source with text.

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 08:08 PM

Google 'Arizona pictures from plane'. That's how I got it.

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 08:11 PM

A picture =/= facts.

I want text that explains your "point" about Arizona being covered in water.

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 08:13 PM

World-wide flood. < == text

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 08:14 PM

... no, I mean a source. Do you know what a source is? There's this thing called a dictionary. look it up.

Pink polar bear <-- Text.

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 08:16 PM

I got that picture 2 weeks ago. I can't remember the URL. (that happens to be before I found this lovely little corner of the forum =3)

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 08:18 PM

Oh mai goodness. Who cares what the url is? I'm asking for a source explaining why you think that picture is evidence that a supernatural entity trumps a scientifically supported theory.

I need to do clickbacks on GPXPlus, be back soon.

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 08:21 PM

The Bible is one source. (you will say it is not factual evidence. it is unavoidable...)

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 08:46 PM

Of course. It's a mere storybook.

It is not the literal word of a supernatural being.

Posted by: Grovyle May 28 2009, 08:50 PM

I believe it is, so it is evidence for me.
Please do not take that as a stuck up comment.
I am merely stating.

Posted by: RheaDark May 28 2009, 08:57 PM

I believe it is, so it is evidence for me.
You believe it is so, but there is no evidence. Thus it is not fact, only opinion, and has no place in a debate as a source.

Please do not take that as a stuck up comment.
How was my statement stuck up? i see only truth.

I am merely stating.
So am I.

Posted by: Sarge May 30 2009, 07:13 PM

QUOTE(Grovyle @ May 28 2009, 06:50 PM)

Posted by: Kurai H May 31 2009, 12:14 AM

Grovyle, the reason Arizona looks like it was once underwater is because it was a part of the Western Interior Seaway, a shallow sea in between the two mountain chains of North America,separating the continent into two landmasses for millions of years during the Cretaceous Era over 65 million years ago.

Personally, I do not see any evidence to prove that a god or idea of creationism exists in reality just like I do not see evidence of pink unicorns trotting on the Earth. The theory of evolution may not be 100% accurate, but it is the best proven theory with current science so far.

And to respond to an earlier post, scientists have created life out of nothing in a controlled atmosphere that resembles what the early Earth's atmosphere is theorized to be.

Posted by: Seadragon May 31 2009, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 28 2009, 08:57 PM)

Posted by: Aku May 31 2009, 10:04 AM

Considering we're on a Pokemon forum... shouldn't we all be evolutionists here?

*bad joke is bad* Ok, I'll leave now... xD

Posted by: RheaDark May 31 2009, 12:32 PM

SeaDragon, I don't recall directing that post towards you... i think i actually missed your earlier posts. Sorry bout that.

It was a sort of general thing about people who are gay-haters, anti-abortion, pro-killing heathens etc. extreme stuff.
I mean, if such a higher power was truly benevolent we wouldn't be living in such a crap world, would we?

I don't understand why you're taking my post so personally when it wasn't even directed towards you in the first place.
And where did you get this thing about how you shouldn't exist if you believe in a higher power? *Pokes post* I was just getting frustrated.

Oh, and for your previous post about "your" religion "[does not state any of the "rules" you listed]." Why is it then that such thing come up at all? If what I'm being angry about doesn't apply to you or your practice of faith, then you shouldn't be offended.

Posted by: Justice May 31 2009, 12:50 PM

The year is 2014 and I'm still trying to invent time travel so I can go back to 2009 and kick myself in the ass.

Posted by: RheaDark May 31 2009, 12:55 PM

"science actually backs up Creation more so than evolution."

...

I'm not sure where to start responding.

Posted by: lightbird May 31 2009, 02:42 PM

QUOTE(Justice @ May 31 2009, 06:50 PM)

Posted by: RheaDark May 31 2009, 03:11 PM

Okay then - I can admit when I get factual information wrong.

I just don't remember where I posted that, if ever. I know for a fact that no cells have been created - just organic molecules.

Hm... *Sifts through posts*

Posted by: Crunch May 31 2009, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(Grovyle @ May 28 2009, 09:13 PM)

QUOTE(Justice @ May 31 2009, 01:50 PM)

Posted by: Seadragon May 31 2009, 06:19 PM

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 31 2009, 12:32 PM)

Posted by: Crunch May 31 2009, 06:34 PM

QUOTE(Seadragon @ May 31 2009, 07:19 PM)

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 31 2009, 12:32 PM)

SeaDragon, I don't recall directing that post towards you... i think i actually missed your earlier posts. Sorry bout that.

It was a sort of general thing about people who are gay-haters, anti-abortion, pro-killing heathens etc. extreme stuff.
I mean, if such a higher power was truly benevolent we wouldn't be living in such a crap world, would we?

I don't understand why you're taking my post so personally when it wasn't even directed towards you in the first place.
And where did you get this thing about how you shouldn't exist if you believe in a higher power? *Pokes post* I was just getting frustrated.

Oh, and for your previous post about "your" religion "[does not state any of the "rules" you listed]." Why is it then that such thing come up at all? If what I'm being angry about doesn't apply to you or your practice of faith, then you shouldn't be offended.

I don't know about you, but I don't believe we live in a "crap world". The world seems fine to me from where I am. Besides, if our higher power WAS really bad, he probably wouldn't even create us in the first place, or, if he did, he'd shoot lightning bolts and fireballs at us and watch us suffer. If anyone's hurting anyone else, its US. If our higher power were truly mean, HE'D be the one torturing us. But WE'RE the ones going to war with one another.

A higher power WOULD be nice. Have you ever played a creation game, like Simcity? When you create your little city, you probably don't want to destroy it and watch everyone suffer. You try to make the city prosper and you want everyone to be happy.

I'm also taking your post personally, because you were directing it to ALL religions. Since I have a religion, that post was directed to me, and anyone else who has a religion. That's why I'm offended.

Posted by: Doomeh May 31 2009, 10:42 PM

QUOTE(Justice @ May 31 2009, 12:50 PM)

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 1 2009, 08:35 PM

QUOTE(Seadragon @ May 31 2009, 05:19 PM)

QUOTE(RheaDark @ May 31 2009, 12:32 PM)

SeaDragon, I don't recall directing that post towards you... i think i actually missed your earlier posts. Sorry bout that.

It was a sort of general thing about people who are gay-haters, anti-abortion, pro-killing heathens etc. extreme stuff.
I mean, if such a higher power was truly benevolent we wouldn't be living in such a crap world, would we?

I don't understand why you're taking my post so personally when it wasn't even directed towards you in the first place.
And where did you get this thing about how you shouldn't exist if you believe in a higher power? *Pokes post* I was just getting frustrated.

Oh, and for your previous post about "your" religion "[does not state any of the "rules" you listed]." Why is it then that such thing come up at all? If what I'm being angry about doesn't apply to you or your practice of faith, then you shouldn't be offended.

I don't know about you, but I don't believe we live in a "crap world". The world seems fine to me from where I am. Besides, if our higher power WAS really bad, he probably wouldn't even create us in the first place, or, if he did, he'd shoot lightning bolts and fireballs at us and watch us suffer. If anyone's hurting anyone else, its US. If our higher power were truly mean, HE'D be the one torturing us. But WE'RE the ones going to war with one another.

A higher power WOULD be nice. Have you ever played a creation game, like Simcity? When you create your little city, you probably don't want to destroy it and watch everyone suffer. You try to make the city prosper and you want everyone to be happy.

I'm also taking your post personally, because you were directing it to ALL religions. Since I have a religion, that post was directed to me, and anyone else who has a religion. That's why I'm offended.

Posted by: Sarge Jun 2 2009, 03:35 AM

QUOTE(Justice @ May 31 2009, 10:50 AM)

Posted by: geqcreature Jun 2 2009, 03:58 AM

QUOTE(Sarge @ Jun 2 2009, 04:35 AM)

QUOTE(Justice @ May 31 2009, 10:50 AM)

Now, believe it or not, if your belief system is molded around evolution, you have to discard a lot of scientific facts.

I do not believe that you are a science nerd. If you actually are a "nerd" as you say, then Jesus F-ing Christ, you need to try harder.

FACT: If only two animals of every "kind" were left on earth at some point in time four thousand years ago, the entire planet would have the same levels of genetic viability as the world wide cheetah population, in which the majority of the population is inbred. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIlWKp44T50

FACT: Ostriches have hollow bones. Hollow bones are perfectly designed for flight, yet the ostrich does not fly. Further more, bats do NOT have hollow bones which means that they are more poorly designed for flight than birds. If God created all living creatures, why didn't he give the ostrich solid bones and the bat hollow bones? How do you account for this?

FACT: The fossil record is divided into layers: the most modern fossils are found in the top-most layers of the earth where as the most primitive species are much, much deeper. If God created all the species at the same time you would expect to find dinosaurs with humans, poodles with trilobites, ect. But we don't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c&feature=related

FACT: A http://www.birdwatchingtours.co.uk/gallery/pix/Mammals-Ect/jacksons_three_horned_chameleon_l.jpg LOOKS NOTHING LIKE A http://drbobbs.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/triceratops.jpg IF IT GREW TO GIGANTIC SIZE OVER A PERIOD OF A THOUSAND YEARS, IT STILL WOULD LOOK NOTHING LIKE A TRICERATOPS. GAH.

I also recommend you watch more of DonExodus's videos. He actually knows a thing or two about science.

Posted by: Jypsom Jun 2 2009, 05:23 AM

I am a christian, and a descendant from William Jennings Brian (not really something to be proud of, cuz nobody knows who he is....), but strangely i believe in evolution. I mean, there is strong scientific proof that evolution exists, proof that you can't argue with. But, I think that God created life on earth, like the first life, and ppl misinterpreted that into humans as they are today. Maybe God doesn't even look anything like us. Maybe he looks like life, what he created in his image.
(sorry if i make no sense, but its just a theory...)

Posted by: Sarge Jun 2 2009, 06:09 PM

QUOTE(geqcreature @ Jun 2 2009, 01:58 AM)

Posted by: Atom Jun 2 2009, 08:47 PM

QUOTE(Sarge @ Jun 2 2009, 07:09 PM)

QUOTE(geqcreature @ Jun 2 2009, 01:58 AM)

There are many gaps in science as well as religion.

Example: Scientist still don't know what causes evolution.

Natural selection causes evoultion.

Posted by: FalconWolf Jun 2 2009, 09:28 PM

God didn't create Man, Man created God. Women created everything else.

Posted by: Kareki Jun 2 2009, 09:31 PM

Evolution works. And gods can, too, if you believe that. I kinda think both work. If anybody asks me outright, I say evolution. But I think both at once. God can have happened, but no matter what, evolution can't be stopped.

Posted by: Rhie Jun 3 2009, 09:57 PM

Just popping in to say my two cents then leave. Interesting arguments I'm seeing here.

I believe in evolution because of its proof, and I don't believe in religion because of the utter LACK of proof.
Though it's true that a divine diety is not impossible, especially after you learn a whole lot about physics in space in time, I think that it's incredibly unlikely.

Posted by: Seadragon Jun 3 2009, 10:44 PM

Here is what I say about this kind of debate:

Who gives a crap?

Seriously, there will always be religions and there will always be atheists. You can't stop it or convince other people that that won't be true. So can this debate just be closed since no one will really win?

Posted by: lightbird Jun 4 2009, 01:18 AM

QUOTE(Seadragon @ Jun 4 2009, 04:44 AM)

Posted by: Reyo Jun 4 2009, 02:30 AM

Is it really impossible for someone to believe in both God and evolution? Sure, the Bible states the "7 days" aspect of the Universe's "creation", but here's something some people may not realize. What is 7 days to someone who is as omnipotent, immortal and all knowing as God? A classic example is Dog years vs. human years. 1 year feels like 15 to them right? Now put US in the Dog's possition and God in ours. What takes us 15 years may only feel like 1 to God, but this is assuming that God would live as long as a human. Now take into account the idea that God is ETERNAL. Suddenly, those years are turning into MILLENIAS. Maybe it really wasn't 7 days...maybe is was 7 millenias...maybe it wasn't on the 7th day that God rested...maybe it was after MILLENIAS of work that he sat down and kicked his celestial shoes off to enjoy some prime time television.

By the way, to anyone who doesn't understand natural selection, I actually have a pokemon analogy for it. Victory Road is filled with rock pokemon (except for a few Golbat here and there), right? You take two pokemon in with you, a Floatzel and a Scyther (you know...I can never spell his name right). Scythers are weak against rock types is he not? Floatzel isn't. If the two were to be let loose on Victory road, who do YOU think would survive?

Posted by: Jypsom Jun 4 2009, 02:42 AM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Jun 4 2009, 04:30 PM)

Posted by: sad love song Jun 4 2009, 03:03 PM

I believe in evolution, because of science. They said, in seven days, God made all the animals that exist. Well, science says, with proof, that things did not start off with man, land animals, and birds. No, it says that we all originated from the sea creatures, and that an Apocalypse underwater forced the animals desperate enough to survive, to strive to find life on land.

It's exactly what M.A.D. says. You must Move, Adapt, or Die. You only have two choices to avoid death, thus forcing them to go through evolution. We don't evolve today, because, where we live, there is nothing utterly forcing us to move and/ or adapt to another lifestyle in order to avoid death.

Posted by: Sarge Jun 5 2009, 02:36 AM

QUOTE(sad love song @ Jun 4 2009, 01:03 PM)

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 6 2009, 10:49 PM

Bah. Just look at who breeds - the idiots.

Smart people don't bother burdening themselves with a bazillion kids. They limit themselves to what they can comfortably support.

/idiocy - it's late.

Posted by: Dragoneh Jun 7 2009, 02:04 AM

I was raised to believe what I want. So I am extremely open minded. You can't not believe in evolution, because it is a fact. I believe the bible is made up of stories, that teach us morals and lessons, not nessicarly the stories themselves are entirely true. I believe in a higher power of some sort, what ever it might be. And evolution is more likely (well I think so) because of adaption, see the similarities between us and monkeys, common ansestor. Just a 13 year old girl's thoughts, not that anyone's right or wrong.

Posted by: Lapras Jun 7 2009, 12:38 PM

I say... God and evolution may make a rather remarkable duo. I'm saying that the idea of God and the idea of evolution may co-exist. Let me touch up on that.

I was told a while back, earlier this year, in fact, that the Hebrew word for "day," as in the first seven days in the Bible, could also be translated to year, and most likely also "era." Therefore, evolution can fit within the chronology of earth, because a "day" is in God's time, not ours; remember that. A day in God's time could be a million years in ours.

Humans have evolved several times. First, from the Australopithecus, or that's how I think it's spelled, to the Homo Erectus, or straight man, when man first began to walk upright. Then, they evolved into the Homo Habbilis (excuse spelling if wrong), which was around the time we began to make tools. From that, we evolved into what we think we know today as the Homo Sapien, or wise man. Actually, around the peak of the Roman empire, it is believed that we evolved from that to the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, or the very wise man. Who knows; soon, we could be something like Homo Callidissimus, or the smartest man. Who knows.

Of course there have been many other kinds of humans along the way, such as H. e. pekinensis, H. cepranensis, the Neanderthals, etc, but this all proves that God works in mysterious ways. We evolve and adapt. We think and we learn. God gave us those abilities, it just matters how we can use it.

I expect an announcement of an evolution of the human race within the next century, whether it be a hype or not. I mean, there are already beliefs of the existence of Indigo Children amongst us. Homo indicum, perhaps?

Posted by: Vero Jun 8 2009, 08:26 PM

QUOTE(RheaDark @ Jun 7 2009, 03:49 PM)

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 9 2009, 08:45 AM

Just a question - what are the Indigo Children? (I prefer answers from people rather than looking it up myself so I can see what sources they have)

Posted by: steampunk Jun 9 2009, 09:23 AM

Just wanted to say my point of still evolving.

I believe we as humans are actually going BACK in the evolution chain.


So my mother had poor vision. So poor she was borderline being called legally blind. according to MAD she either had to move to someplace where she doesn't need good eyes or adapt with what she had. Technically if we go by the wild and such my mother wouldn't have been able to live so any of her children wouldn't get her bad eyes. Ah but she has two kids and we are both wearing glasses. There are the mildly mentally retarded who are able to have children and pass that gene and so on. Because of our technology to make life easier and give every human born a chance to make something of themselves I believe we physically are not evolving. Too many people with 'defects' like mine and others known are surviving and able to continue their deformity/defect.

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 9 2009, 10:36 AM

It's not so much we're de-evolving, it's more like... since technology has made life for us, our bodies no longer have this "need" to be strong, so there are now more people with poor eyesight, etc.

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 11:50 AM

Well, I believe that Evolution actually proves the existence of God. It's very controversial, because there is actually no grounded proof that replaces God with evolution. They don't teach this in schools, but back when there were only one celled organisms, there were only one-celled organisms. Evolution calls for gradual change over time, but what most Evolutionists skim over is the time period in which one-celled organisms become multi-celled organisms. If we were to hypothesize that this change happened because of genetic mutation, then we would have to have evidence that shows that one-celled organisms progressed into multi-celled organisms over time, but that is not the case. Millions of years of one-celled organisms recorded in fossils simply exploded into multi-celled organisms, with no inbetween. Evolutionists claimed that this was so because the time period was not favorable for fossil creation, but this is a blatant lie, as this time was actually very very favorable, as proven by a recent dig in China. The creation of flagella and cilia would take infinite genetic mutations; if one gene was missing from the set of 32+ (forgive me, I can't remember the number), then the flagella would not exist. To form one of the 32+ genes and have it reappear through the species, it would take trillions of years of genetic mutations, completely random genetic mutations. Therefore, evolution is only possible with the existence of a divine creator.

I'm done nerding out for the day, this all came from a discussion I was having in Bio class the other day. And oh jeez, I'm only 14.

Posted by: lightbird Jun 9 2009, 12:10 PM

Keshi, the reason why scientists "skim" the question about the emerging of multi-cellular organisms is because they haven't yet discovered a plausible model.
Of course, putting God in would be helpful, but very ignorant :V

As for humans evolving nowadays, it still goes on, even if not prominent for our short lifetimes to observe it. An example mentioned by one of the guest professors on a course about Darwin's influence on science was that of AIDS immune individuals emerging in European population, if I remember correctly, similarly how AIDS used to be quite frequent amongst apes until they, so to say, grew out of it. I'm sorry that I can't offer a plausible literature source :-S

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 12:17 PM

But look at how complex humans are. Actually, any given animal on the planet. We're so complex. There is no plausible way that every species on the planet evolved from random unguided mutations alone. If we're talking about survival of the fittest here, then why haven't rodents died out yet? Surely, despite the food chain, it would have died out and its predators would have found other prey (if prey were to exist in the method of survival of the fittest.)

I also can't provide any good sources, I'm just reiterating conversations I've had.

[edit] Back on the AIDS thing: just like how bacteria evolve to grow resistant to meds, one-celled organisms evolve. But bacteria only evolve into bacteria and one-celled organisms only evolve into one celled organisms.

Posted by: Atom Jun 9 2009, 12:38 PM

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 01:17 PM)

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 12:43 PM

Fair points, I commend you sir.

But where is the proof of gradual change into multi-celled organisms? Gradual change over time is the entire idea of evolution, yet we go from one-celled, skip over, and then to gradual change over time in multi celled organisms.

Posted by: Atom Jun 9 2009, 12:58 PM

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 01:43 PM)

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 01:08 PM

From here: http://jjjjournal.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/evolution-proves-god-exists-more-than-it-disproves-it/

Posted by: Atom Jun 9 2009, 01:31 PM

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 02:08 PM)

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 01:44 PM

Posted by: Spinoz Jun 9 2009, 01:55 PM

Evolution Theory rox my socks. And I love science. \o/

The human race is going down, because the natural choise would be that the weak decease. But nowadays people live about 70-80yrs at least... It's not natural, not really.

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(Spinoz @ Jun 9 2009, 01:55 PM)

Posted by: Atom Jun 9 2009, 04:30 PM

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 02:44 PM)

Posted by: Suzuki Jun 9 2009, 04:44 PM

God all the way.

I think that God created evolution. Because of how the fossil records say and show slightly a change in prehistoric creatures, that some look the same, but with different DNA. Like a Henodus (a placodont. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henodus ) evolving into a modern-day turtle. Whatever it was, God created it, even if evolution is real or fake.

Posted by: lightbird Jun 9 2009, 05:00 PM

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 06:43 PM)

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 9 2009, 05:21 PM

QUOTE(Suzuki @ Jun 9 2009, 04:44 PM)

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(Atom @ Jun 9 2009, 04:30 PM)

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 02:44 PM)

QUOTE

Yes, evolution doesn't prove or disprove the existence of God, it just doesn't require a God. Also, creation isn't a theory, not even a hypotheses, since it can't be tested. It is perfectly alright to believe a God created life and started the process of evolution. Evolution just doesn't require a God figure.

That actually reminds me of something someone said, "that evolution theory and the theory of a divine creator can actually coexist without any friction or contradictions."

Anyway, back to the point. It's true that the original God theory claimed that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman, and they just appeared as homo sapiens, without evolution. I'm pointing this out to show one of the flaws in the theory of godly design, just as the missing links from single to multi are the flaws in evolution.

I firmly believe that both are entwined, because evolution without a god figure, in my view, would continue on as one-celled to a one-celled to a one-celled. You're fair in saying that creation can't be tested, and it's true that evolution has been proven, but creation and evolution are actually very similar.

In the story of the ark (this is a very loose connection), God decided to wipe out the unfavorable parties on earth and saved a small, "better" party. From then on, the party that was saved reproduced to create what is the population today (according to the story). If God decided to wipe out the weaker parties in the time of the story, who is to say that God is not playing some hand in the lowering/extinction of species today? True, man is killing many species, and this is very 'bad', but is God really just turning the cheek?

You can certainly interpret the Ark story that way if you wish. There's some real moral implications to the story though that can seriously undermine God as any sort of intelligent creator. Such as the fact that apparently God is regretting his creating human beings within the story. If his creation was so perfect from the beginning, why would he regret anything?

Honestly, I think creationism and evolutionary theory (I have to stress again that God/creation is NOT a theory, since neither can be tested) do have some serious contradictions. A creator would make sure its creations are as flawless as possible, otherwise it's a bad design. Yet, there are so many things that could be improved about just Homo sapiens alone.

Anyway, I like you. Your posts are pretty good.

Posted by: Raitozaki Jun 9 2009, 08:01 PM

I, personally, believe in evolution. I don't really believe in the whole higher being. It's scientifically proven that we're somehow related to gorillas, so that explains evolution to some extent (as do the dinosaurs).

I just don't really follow religion. So I'm not really into the whole "God" belief. I don't condemn people who do though, as long as they don't get upset when I say I don't believe in God. I'm more of a Karma person.

Anyway, yes, I think Evolution is a more sensible way to look at things; but that's just me.

Posted by: Atom Jun 9 2009, 08:16 PM

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 08:49 PM)

Posted by: Redemption Jun 9 2009, 08:22 PM

God.

I find it hard to believe that creatures as complex as us evolved from single-celled organisms. Something had to happen in between to fill in all the gaps. Evolution has some valid points to make, but it doesn't cover the rest of the story. Is it so hard to believe that a higher being than us has created us through the process of evolution? I could go on, but I won't (Awaits stupid/rude response from an immature moron. )

Posted by: Keshi Jun 9 2009, 08:25 PM

QUOTE(Atom @ Jun 9 2009, 08:16 PM)

QUOTE(Keshi @ Jun 9 2009, 08:49 PM)

Perhaps God likes to watch us grow and improve? In Catholic Education, the first lesson I learned as a six year old was that 'God loves everyone. Everyone.' So God doesn't need us to be entirely perfect; it's also said that God loves us so much that he gives us the choice to be "good or bad" (which is only semi-relevant, but I'm including it anyway.)

If God loves humans so much that he gives them the choice to turn away from him, then that shows that he doesn't need to be obeyed unconditionally. Surely, love means more if it isn't forced? If a creator needed all of his creations to be perfect, then God would wipe out every person who ever turned away from him, which is essentially every human in existence as everyone doubts him at one point in their lives (or throughout their entire lives, which ever applies.)

In my humble opinion, I think that God's goal for his creations is not perfection, but to strive for it as much as is humanly possible, because to be human is to be imperfect.

Thank you! Good to hear I'm not coming across as immature (with my age and all), and I like you as well: your posts really make me think.

Edited for spacing issues, I don't like posts that are long blocks of text.

I'm sorry, I should have made myself clearer. I didn't mean perfection in the sense that humanity is sinful and imperfect emotionally/mentally. I meant physically, as in our physical structure. As a species, due to our upright stance, we're riddled with back and leg problems. Our eyes are built backwards, and we have no real defensive and predatory weapons (naturally occurring) other than our minds. If it wasn't for our being social animals, we'd be goners. I agree with you about mental/emotional perfection. I don't believe in God, and there's things about the concept of sin, etc. that I seriously disagree with, but I think it's a cop-out argument to demand total perfection.

Posted by: BrownieParadox Jun 9 2009, 09:06 PM

I believe in God, simply because I've been warned that if I don't I'll end up in a very bad place.... Yet, evolution seems to make more sense to me; the way we have developed--and other species as well--corresponds with our higher placement here on Earth. Weaker creatures die off, simply due to their inability to cope with their predators. Humans developed minds which can cope and evade danger and we possess an advanced level of understanding. Over time, this is how we changed; nobody could have just said, "Poof, you're smart and automatically at the top of the food chain!" That's scientifically incorrect, in my opinion. Individuals believe in God to rely on a force that can give them hope and support them. If someone had just died, their relative wouldn't want to accept the fact that the man just had disappeared into nothingness; they'd want to trust that God had taken them to a better place. It makes them feel better. Society would fall apart without something or someone to believe in. That's why God exists.

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 9 2009, 09:09 PM

QUOTE(BrownieParadox @ Jun 9 2009, 09:06 PM)

I believe in God, simply because I've been warned that if I don't I'll end up in a very bad place.... Yet, evolution seems to make more sense to me; the way we have developed--and other species as well--corresponds with our higher placement here on Earth. Weaker creatures die off, simply due to their inability to cope with their predators. Humans developed minds which can cope and evade danger and we possess an advanced level of understanding. Over time, this is how we changed; nobody could have just said, "Poof, you're smart and automatically at the top of the food chain!" That's scientifically incorrect, in my opinion. Individuals believe in God to rely on a force that can give them hope and support them. If someone had just died, their relative wouldn't want to accept the fact that the man just had disappeared into nothingness; they'd want to trust that God had taken them to a better place. It makes them feel better. Society would fall apart without something or someone to believe in. That's why God exists.

Posted by: Suzuki Jun 9 2009, 09:17 PM

Oh, im sorry.
Yes I would say both

Posted by: dotPHUNK Jun 9 2009, 11:50 PM

I want to believe that both are what has lead us to where we are. Though... I really don't know. If I were to have to pick one, I'd probably say God. :\

Posted by: Aknara Jun 10 2009, 09:07 AM

I 100% believe in evolution > creation.

Come on, it took an omnipotent god to create a world in 6 days and then found that so stressful the lazy sod fell asleep?

I don't think so. xD

Posted by: Atom Jun 10 2009, 10:36 PM

QUOTE(BrownieParadox @ Jun 9 2009, 10:06 PM)

I believe in God, simply because I've been warned that if I don't I'll end up in a very bad place.... Yet, evolution seems to make more sense to me; the way we have developed--and other species as well--corresponds with our higher placement here on Earth. Weaker creatures die off, simply due to their inability to cope with their predators. Humans developed minds which can cope and evade danger and we possess an advanced level of understanding. Over time, this is how we changed; nobody could have just said, "Poof, you're smart and automatically at the top of the food chain!" That's scientifically incorrect, in my opinion. Individuals believe in God to rely on a force that can give them hope and support them. If someone had just died, their relative wouldn't want to accept the fact that the man just had disappeared into nothingness; they'd want to trust that God had taken them to a better place. It makes them feel better. Society would fall apart without something or someone to believe in. That's why God exists.

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 11 2009, 09:14 AM

In order to keep them in line. God doesn't make people feel better, he makes them hate themselves for being sinners.

Posted by: lightbird Jun 11 2009, 03:35 PM

QUOTE(BrownieParadox @ Jun 10 2009, 03:06 AM)

I believe in God, simply because I've been warned that if I don't I'll end up in a very bad place.... Yet, evolution seems to make more sense to me; the way we have developed--and other species as well--corresponds with our higher placement here on Earth. Weaker creatures die off, simply due to their inability to cope with their predators. Humans developed minds which can cope and evade danger and we possess an advanced level of understanding. Over time, this is how we changed; nobody could have just said, "Poof, you're smart and automatically at the top of the food chain!" That's scientifically incorrect, in my opinion. Individuals believe in God to rely on a force that can give them hope and support them. If someone had just died, their relative wouldn't want to accept the fact that the man just had disappeared into nothingness; they'd want to trust that God had taken them to a better place. It makes them feel better. Society would fall apart without something or someone to believe in. That's why God exists.

Posted by: arkaya Jun 12 2009, 08:54 PM

Don't get me wrong, I have a couple of religious friends and treat them the same as any other friend - and totally respect peoples individual choices!
...But I can't say I think there is a god... It just dosen't make sense to me at all - it seems like a story that was created a long time ago - when things were simpler and people needed something to help them make sense of themselves.

Also there is a theory that what we perceive to be god is perhaps a throwback to a time when the two halves of the human brain were not completely merged - where one half of the brain could commuincate with the other in a way that it seemed seperate (like from a god) .. so I just can't believe in creationism - so evolution (with some flaws) for me.

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 12 2009, 11:30 PM

Such a theory, hm? Interesting. Got any links?

Posted by: Sarge Jun 13 2009, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(Redemption @ Jun 9 2009, 06:22 PM)

God.

I find it hard to believe that creatures as complex as us evolved from single-celled organisms. Something had to happen in between to fill in all the gaps. Evolution has some valid points to make, but it doesn't cover the rest of the story. Is it so hard to believe that a higher being than us has created us through the process of evolution? I could go on, but I won't (Awaits stupid/rude response from an immature moron. )

QUOTE(BrownieParadox @ Jun 9 2009, 07:06 PM)

I believe in God, simply because I've been warned that if I don't I'll end up in a very bad place.... Yet, evolution seems to make more sense to me; the way we have developed--and other species as well--corresponds with our higher placement here on Earth. Weaker creatures die off, simply due to their inability to cope with their predators. Humans developed minds which can cope and evade danger and we possess an advanced level of understanding. Over time, this is how we changed; nobody could have just said, "Poof, you're smart and automatically at the top of the food chain!" That's scientifically incorrect, in my opinion. Individuals believe in God to rely on a force that can give them hope and support them. If someone had just died, their relative wouldn't want to accept the fact that the man just had disappeared into nothingness; they'd want to trust that God had taken them to a better place. It makes them feel better. Society would fall apart without something or someone to believe in. That's why God exists.

Posted by: Hagane no Yuurei Jun 17 2009, 05:35 PM

I believe in evolution.

Ferocious raptors evolving into chickens is my kind of theory.

Posted by: ZeroVX Jun 19 2009, 03:19 PM

I guess you could say I believe in both. The evolution theory is solid and works, but it had to start somewhere. What, just one day, completely randomly, an amoeba is created? No, it had to have a push. That push being God.

Here's how I see it. God created the world and life, and then left it to its own devices. It makes sense if you think about it.

Is there a heaven and a hell? I think so. And I firmly believe that heaven has a magic slurpee machine. Seriously, try drinking one and not thinking that it came from a higher plane.

Do Jesus, Vishnu, Mohammed, Buddha, or any of those spiritual figures exist? Maybe. It's kinda like wondering Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny exist. The stories had to come from somewhere, right?

(I will bet any amount of money that someone will reword that to make it sound like I'm comparing religion to fairy tales.)

Posted by: Tyrantar Jun 19 2009, 03:43 PM

from when i was about 6 i thought that god and jesus was a load of bull

to be honestt i still think most of the bible is a load of bull


but ive reached a point where i think there must be something out there


but still, thingd like burning bush?, pillars of salt? - crap


but i do beleive in things like christ could have existed and was crucified
and things like moses escaping king whatsisname's soldiers
(but not the splitting water bit

but i really hope the adam and eve story isn't true
think about it, if its true every human on the planet is related and no matter
what you do, if you do its incest

Posted by: sqtodd Jun 19 2009, 05:02 PM

QUOTE(Redemption @ Jun 9 2009, 07:22 PM)

God.

I find it hard to believe that creatures as complex as us evolved from single-celled organisms. Something had to happen in between to fill in all the gaps. Evolution has some valid points to make, but it doesn't cover the rest of the story. Is it so hard to believe that a higher being than us has created us through the process of evolution? I could go on, but I won't (Awaits stupid/rude response from an immature moron. )

Posted by: RheaDark Jun 21 2009, 01:00 AM

QUOTE(Tyrantar @ Jun 19 2009, 03:43 PM)

from when i was about 6 i thought that god and jesus was a load of bull

to be honestt i still think most of the bible is a load of bull


but ive reached a point where i think there must be something out there


but still, thingd like burning bush?, pillars of salt? - crap


but i do beleive in things like christ could have existed and was crucified
and things like moses escaping king whatsisname's soldiers
(but not the splitting water bit

but i really hope the adam and eve story isn't true
think about it, if its true every human on the planet is related and no matter
what you do, if you do its incest

Posted by: GodEneru Jun 24 2009, 04:16 PM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 15 2008, 10:14 PM)

Posted by: austin42 Aug 3 2009, 02:18 PM

Evolution is scientific, and I'm a scientist. I can't accept an illogical idea that some omnipotent being created life, because the way the world works does not support the existence of said omnipotent being. Right now, the world supports the theory of evolution, so I support evolution as well.

Posted by: Reyo Aug 3 2009, 05:48 PM

I don't remember if I've posted in this thread before. If I have, please bear with me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've come across several anti-evolutionists in my day, and 100% of them KNEW ALMOSTNOTHING OF EVOLUTION. One of them even told me that they knew evolution was false since their dog didn't experience evolution when they had a litter.

First off, no one came from monkeys and apes. No one is saying that we came from monkeys and apes. (Though this argument has been slowly disappearing.) Second, just how many people out there who claim to understand evolution, and are still against it, truly understand evolution?

Here's a test.
What is it that we inherit from our parents, eye color or proteins?
Your parents have brown eyes and you have blue. What does that mean for both you and your parents?
A male is born with Hemophilia, who's fault is it?
Who was the first scientist one to discover genetics?

You don't have to provide a post with answers, just ask yourself if you know the answers without googling it. If you can't, then how can you argue evolution? This is basic genetics people.

Now to simplify natural selection, which is basic evolution, in a term everyone here should understand.

You have two pokemon in your party, a scyther and a floatzel. Scyther knows basic bug type attacks and Floatzel knows basic water type attacks. Now imagine that you're in Victory road, which is teeming with Gravelors, Steelixes, and Rhydons. Now imagine that this is a double battle against two gravelers. Both Gravelors, your Floatzel, and your Scyther are level 47, have the same HP, ATT, Speed, DEF, SP DEF, SP ATT, and evasivness. Both Gravelors use Rock Throw. One hits Scyther. It's super effective, Scyther faints. The other hits Floatzel. It's not very effective, he remains unfainted. Why didn't Floatzel faint like Scyther did? Both him and Scyther had the same stats and level. This just doesn't make sense...or does it?

Now can you see how two different species can go through what is called natural selection?
Prey: Scyther and Floatzel
Environment: Cave
Predators: Gravelor

Scyther, being a bug type, was selected against in an environment of rock typepokemon while floatzel was selected for. A more complicated example could be Sickle cell and Malaria, but I won't even waste time here since a) I've already given the Scyther/Floatzel and Gravelor example, and b) I'm too lazy to do so right now.

For those people who wish to debate this subject further, I urge you to at least take Biology class and educate yourselves. If you've already done so...AWESOME. Now use the knowlege you picked up in that class.

QUOTE(BrownieParadox @ Jun 9 2009, 09:06 PM)

I believe in God, simply because I've been warned that if I don't I'll end up in a very bad place.... Yet, evolution seems to make more sense to me; the way we have developed--and other species as well--corresponds with our higher placement here on Earth.

Posted by: Kuches Aug 7 2009, 04:58 PM

Hm... Evolution or God? I say Evolution.
Not that I am against God or anything, I believe in him... but in Scientific terms I say we evolved from earlier primates.

Posted by: Jonahman10 Aug 9 2009, 01:34 PM

Personally I don't believe in Evolution, there are to unconsistencies in between creatures that supposedly evolved from one another. I believe in Adaptation and such.

I believe in the creation story from the Bible, not literally as in seven days, but over an expanse of time. In this period some say evolution could have occurred. The seven days could be seven days, but if the first day there wasn't any light, and our days are measured by the sun and moon, then it couldn't have been a day for sure.

I personally don't believe in evolution because I feel there isn't enough evidence to support it, even though genetics and natural selection are some evidence.

I also feel necessary to say that people who didn't truly understand either clung to one or the other for no truthfully good reason. They still made up bad remarks towards the other group without understanding their ground and the other ground.

I also feel necessary to say that Gregor Mendel, the father of modern day genetics, was a priest and he came up with his theories through working for his church's food pantry by breeding peas in it's court yard so they could feed the hungry.

Posted by: Reyo Aug 10 2009, 12:31 AM

QUOTE(Jonahman10 @ Aug 9 2009, 01:34 PM)

Posted by: Betala Aug 10 2009, 02:10 AM

I'm an Atheist, but my parents don't understand it.

I completely don't believe in God. I believe in evolution completely.

For me, the Bible is only a storybook that I don't like.

But still, that's only my opinion, and if you believe in God, I'm not trying to hurt you. This is only my opinion.

Posted by: MystykFyre Aug 11 2009, 04:48 AM

Who says they aren't both the correct answer? Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Seven Days were days equal in measure to our days. He could have had time to make the dinosaurs, wipe 'em out, make monkeys, make 'em evolve, and have Adam and Eve before the Seventh Day. We never will know until we take our last breath on this planet and pass into the waiting arms of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Memento Mori Aug 15 2009, 02:41 PM

Posted by: draconitas Aug 17 2009, 10:18 AM

I was brought up in a rather Christian environment, but I'd have to say that growing up, my Primary Science Encyclopaedia was my bible, and the (Children's) Bible was more of a nice story, nothing more. I'd say I was Agnostic, in a way - I sincerely doubt the presence of God, but I won't completely discount the possibility of there being some kind of higher power. I believe strongly in evolution, and unfortunately some of the sites I have come across only serve to further turn me away from creationism, though unfortunately it was just the manner in which they tried to explain things. One claimed fossils existed not because God created dinosaurs, because he didn't (they weren't mentioned as being in the Garden of Eden), but that God placed the fossils there for us to have something to puzzle over.

Though, when people mention the chicken-or-egg question, I like to joke and say, "Chickens, of course - you think God sat around hatching all those eggs?"

Posted by: bulbachu Aug 22 2009, 10:32 AM

before i start, i have to say that i don't believe in God. i believe there is a higher power, whether human or godly, that can change us and who created the universe, but no otherworldly being who created us out of nothing.

i believe that creatures do evolve over time. take, for instance, a virus. it can adapt to it's surroundings suprisingly fast because it must do so in order to survive. evolution has played a key role in the history of our world, where even we are finding ourselves being forced to adapt constantly to new surroundings, and over many years we might change again in some way. i don't belive that a single being or a few beings are freely able to control the world around us, but rather can guide us along the path of life.

the subject of God is very touchy, but higher beings do have a place in this world. there is a world out there that suffers from disease and poverty. a higher being gives may people the drive to get up out of bed each morning and face the day. some people are cured of maladies just because they think they were healed by a pill or a wish, but it is instead their own drive. higher beings set for us a golden standard for a way of living and caring for one another, and no matter who or what it is, it can lead us to paradise, to eternal happiness, and if there is another world where we all go after we die, we will find happiness there as well, knowing we did our best in this world and helped others at each step along the path of life.

Posted by: RheaDark Aug 22 2009, 03:02 PM

I'm an atheist, so evolution all the way.

Posted by: Scrooge Aug 24 2009, 01:27 AM

I hate when people say they can't believe evolution because it says that we evolved from monkeys, even though no one actually said that.

Posted by: Avyuir Aug 24 2009, 01:36 AM

I myself am agnostic, I dont doubt there is a higher power but is there an actual God, I won't say till I have seen him with my own eyes.

As for the topic, I believe in evolution. You can see evolution in all kinds of creatures by just looking at their heritage. Take big cats for example (lion,s tigers, etc). They all have certain adaptations from evolution that allow them to be so good at their territories and so diverse.

Posted by: Sovee Aug 26 2009, 10:13 PM

I would like to congratulate Reyo´s explanation about natural selection since it was very didatic. I just want to correct something: you should consider two individuals of the same species not two different species (for example two Scythers with different defense values and the one with the greatest would have a better chance to survive and then have descendants). But it was very good anyway!

I am a biologist student so for me evolution is a fact (and a very interesting subject for studying)
I don´t know if I believe in God or not but I think religion is a good thing if it can make people´s lives better.

(I apologize for possible errors in grammar and such... English is not my main language and I am a bit rusty... I promise I will try to get better !!!)

Posted by: Reyo Aug 27 2009, 01:27 AM

QUOTE(Sovee @ Aug 26 2009, 10:13 PM)

I would like to congratulate Reyo´s explanation about natural selection since it was very didatic. I just want to correct something: you should consider two individuals of the same species not two different species (for example two Scythers with different defense values and the one with the greatest would have a better chance to survive and then have descendants). But it was very good anyway!

I am a biologist student so for me evolution is a fact (and a very interesting subject for studying)
I don´t know if I believe in God or not but I think religion is a good thing if it can make people´s lives better.

(I apologize for possible errors in grammar and such... English is not my main language and I am a bit rusty... I promise I will try to get better !!!)

Posted by: penguinJAM Aug 27 2009, 01:52 PM

As an atheist, I back evolution 100%. Whenever a friend starts a religious argument with me, they always throw the same points at me, without having evidence or proof to back up their points. It makes me very frustrated.

Posted by: Reyo Aug 27 2009, 05:56 PM

QUOTE(penguinJAM @ Aug 27 2009, 01:52 PM)

As an atheist, I back evolution 100%. Whenever a friend starts a religious argument with me, they always throw the same points at me, without having evidence or proof to back up their points. It makes me very frustrated.

Posted by: penguinJAM Aug 27 2009, 08:11 PM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Aug 27 2009, 06:56 PM)

QUOTE(penguinJAM @ Aug 27 2009, 01:52 PM)

As an atheist, I back evolution 100%. Whenever a friend starts a religious argument with me, they always throw the same points at me, without having evidence or proof to back up their points. It makes me very frustrated.

Is that just about evolution, or the religion in general.

I'm not busting your balls here, I'm just noticing a vagueness in your comment when it comes to your religious friends.

Posted by: E4 Hikaru Aug 27 2009, 08:24 PM

The way I see it...

...Why not both?

I am a religious person, but I personally believe that science has t have at least some truth to it, with all the evidence and whatnot. So, I came up with a compromise that could satisfy both ends...

I believe that God did create everything--people, animals, the universe(s), etc. But, when these people/animals found themselves in different environments, like the Galapagos tortoises, they were able to adapt. Makes sense, right?

~E4 Hikaru

Posted by: ShayminsoftheSky Aug 31 2009, 03:01 AM

I dont believe in god so I believe Darwin's theory.

Posted by: Waterwraith Aug 31 2009, 05:44 AM

I used to believe in God when I was younger, and prayed perhaps once a week when I wanted something. But, nothing ever happened, so I just dropped my belief. Having to go to a Catholic school for 5 years didn't help either.... I'm now an atheist.

I believe more in evolution. There seems to be pretty good reasons and proof for it. It makes more sense as well, especially in some of the examples Darwin gave, such as the examples of the birds in the galapagos islands.

Posted by: essi Sep 4 2009, 05:03 AM

I don't believe in anything.

Posted by: Hinata Hyuuga Sep 4 2009, 05:14 AM

I say God. If there wasn't a God then my life is a lie and a lot of things that have happened to me would be impossible. I find it hard to believe that out of nowhere there was a "Big Bang".

Plus if evolution is the adaption to your environment, why don't mothers have more arms?

Posted by: Froslass132 Sep 4 2009, 10:34 AM

QUOTE(essi @ Sep 4 2009, 06:03 AM)

Posted by: Pizzakun Sep 5 2009, 03:57 PM

To be serious, my own belief is a weird mixture of both.

Posted by: Reyo Sep 8 2009, 12:35 AM

QUOTE(Froslass132 @ Sep 4 2009, 10:34 AM)

QUOTE(essi @ Sep 4 2009, 06:03 AM)

I don't believe in anything.

That's nice...

@Hinata: Exactly! Someone finally get it!

Scientists' jobs are to disprove the "theory" that God exists. Needless to say, they fail horribly, no science can explain the wonders that God has done.

I say God. If there wasn't a God then my life is a lie and a lot of things that have happened to me would be impossible. I find it hard to believe that out of nowhere there was a "Big Bang".

Plus if evolution is the adaption to your environment, why don't mothers have more arms?

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 08:52 PM

It really amazes me that some people still don't haven't accepted evolution, despite the overwhelming evidence in its favor.

As an atheist, I don't believe in God at all. Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence. We're the only creatures that we know of who are sentient to the extent of questioning our purpose here, but then, we don't know of everything in existence yet. I think it's kind of arrogant to assume that Earth is the only planet in the entire universe to have evolved under the right conditions for life--or indeed that life has to be carbon-based to begin with.

Dolphins intrigue me. They share many of our characteristics in mind, and I wonder if, given enough time, they'll evolve to the point of being sentient as well. Certain birds too. Crows live upwards of 80 years, hold funerals for their dead, etc.

Do I believe God put us here so that he could sit back and watch what happened? No. Do I believe he created the first spark of life with the intention that it would evolve to the point of humanity? No. I believe that certain things are simply beyond human comprehension, and that people find it as difficult to come to terms with the fact that all of life on Earth is just a meaningless blip in the overall passage of time (which doesn't actually exist) as they do to picture the number one million in physical form.

Posted by: Reyo Sep 27 2009, 09:53 PM

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 08:52 PM)

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 09:53 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 08:52 PM)

It really amazes me that some people still don't haven't accepted evolution, despite the overwhelming evidence in its favor.

As an atheist, I don't believe in God at all. Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence. We're the only creatures that we know of who are sentient to the extent of questioning our purpose here, but then, we don't know of everything in existence yet. I think it's kind of arrogant to assume that Earth is the only planet in the entire universe to have evolved under the right conditions for life--or indeed that life has to be carbon-based to begin with.

Generalization is not going to win arguments. Not every Christian believes in creationism, and not every scientist who believes in evolution is an atheist. That and the fact that the Christians aren't the only ones who believe in creationism.

I'm a living example of this. I'm a Christian and I incorperate evolution with almost everything I do.

Posted by: Mr Blue Viperfish Sep 27 2009, 10:07 PM

Posted by: Reyo Sep 27 2009, 10:10 PM

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:06 PM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 09:53 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 08:52 PM)

It really amazes me that some people still don't haven't accepted evolution, despite the overwhelming evidence in its favor.

As an atheist, I don't believe in God at all. Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence. We're the only creatures that we know of who are sentient to the extent of questioning our purpose here, but then, we don't know of everything in existence yet. I think it's kind of arrogant to assume that Earth is the only planet in the entire universe to have evolved under the right conditions for life--or indeed that life has to be carbon-based to begin with.

Generalization is not going to win arguments. Not every Christian believes in creationism, and not every scientist who believes in evolution is an atheist. That and the fact that the Christians aren't the only ones who believe in creationism.

I'm a living example of this. I'm a Christian and I incorperate evolution with almost everything I do.

I wasn't trying to generalize. Atheists don't tend to fall awestruck at the miracles around us as creations of god, just as Christians don't tend to fall awestruck at the great godless coincidence that I believe our lives to be. I said nothing about all scientists being atheists or that no Christians believe in evolution, just that atheists don't believe God was involved in any way and Christians do.

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 10:12 PM

QUOTE(Mr Blue Viperfish @ Sep 27 2009, 10:07 PM)

Posted by: Reyo Sep 27 2009, 10:16 PM

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:12 PM)

QUOTE(Mr Blue Viperfish @ Sep 27 2009, 10:07 PM)

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

There are other religious views on evolution other than the stereotypical Christian stance. Not every religious person believes in the same deity.
I've studied a few different religions and a few scientific theories, evolution being one of them. Evolution makes more sense to me than creationism.

I understand that too. I just use Christianity as an example because it tends to be the most prominent.

Also OMFG I love your icon.

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 10:17 PM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 10:10 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:06 PM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 09:53 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 08:52 PM)

It really amazes me that some people still don't haven't accepted evolution, despite the overwhelming evidence in its favor.

As an atheist, I don't believe in God at all. Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence. We're the only creatures that we know of who are sentient to the extent of questioning our purpose here, but then, we don't know of everything in existence yet. I think it's kind of arrogant to assume that Earth is the only planet in the entire universe to have evolved under the right conditions for life--or indeed that life has to be carbon-based to begin with.

Generalization is not going to win arguments. Not every Christian believes in creationism, and not every scientist who believes in evolution is an atheist. That and the fact that the Christians aren't the only ones who believe in creationism.

I'm a living example of this. I'm a Christian and I incorperate evolution with almost everything I do.

I wasn't trying to generalize. Atheists don't tend to fall awestruck at the miracles around us as creations of god, just as Christians don't tend to fall awestruck at the great godless coincidence that I believe our lives to be. I said nothing about all scientists being atheists or that no Christians believe in evolution, just that atheists don't believe God was involved in any way and Christians do.

Then this isn't the thread to make such comments.
This is "evolution v creationism" not "christians believe in God and atheists don't."

QUOTE

I grew up in with a Christian background and most of my friends are Christian, so I know for a fact that a lot of Christians do believe in evolution. What leaves me dumbstruck are the ones who still don't. I know a lot of good Christians and a lot of ignorant ones, just like I know a lot of good atheists and agnostics and quite a few who think things I'll never agree with.

Basically I understand what you're saying and I didn't mean to offend!

Then next time, say THAT instead of

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

Nowhere in that statemnent do you separate the Christians into a group of those who do and don't believe in evolution. You made it sound like we ALL don't.

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 10:20 PM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 10:16 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:12 PM)

QUOTE(Mr Blue Viperfish @ Sep 27 2009, 10:07 PM)

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

There are other religious views on evolution other than the stereotypical Christian stance. Not every religious person believes in the same deity.
I've studied a few different religions and a few scientific theories, evolution being one of them. Evolution makes more sense to me than creationism.

I understand that too. I just use Christianity as an example because it tends to be the most prominent.

Also OMFG I love your icon.

For that, I'd suggest using "religious people" instead of singling out a single group. It's less ignorant that way.

Posted by: Reyo Sep 27 2009, 10:25 PM

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:17 PM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 10:10 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:06 PM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 09:53 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 08:52 PM)

It really amazes me that some people still don't haven't accepted evolution, despite the overwhelming evidence in its favor.

As an atheist, I don't believe in God at all. Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence. We're the only creatures that we know of who are sentient to the extent of questioning our purpose here, but then, we don't know of everything in existence yet. I think it's kind of arrogant to assume that Earth is the only planet in the entire universe to have evolved under the right conditions for life--or indeed that life has to be carbon-based to begin with.

Generalization is not going to win arguments. Not every Christian believes in creationism, and not every scientist who believes in evolution is an atheist. That and the fact that the Christians aren't the only ones who believe in creationism.

I'm a living example of this. I'm a Christian and I incorperate evolution with almost everything I do.

I wasn't trying to generalize. Atheists don't tend to fall awestruck at the miracles around us as creations of god, just as Christians don't tend to fall awestruck at the great godless coincidence that I believe our lives to be. I said nothing about all scientists being atheists or that no Christians believe in evolution, just that atheists don't believe God was involved in any way and Christians do.

Then this isn't the thread to make such comments.
This is "evolution v creationism" not "christians believe in God and atheists don't."

QUOTE

I grew up in with a Christian background and most of my friends are Christian, so I know for a fact that a lot of Christians do believe in evolution. What leaves me dumbstruck are the ones who still don't. I know a lot of good Christians and a lot of ignorant ones, just like I know a lot of good atheists and agnostics and quite a few who think things I'll never agree with.

Basically I understand what you're saying and I didn't mean to offend!

Then next time, say THAT instead of

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

Nowhere in that statemnent do you separate the Christians into a group of those who do and don't believe in evolution. You made it sound like we ALL don't.

...I wasn't trying to make it a "Christians believe in God and atheists don't" topic as I assumed that was already well established. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 10:37 PM

@Reyo, as I'm unfamiliar with forum formatting and I seem to have posted "more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text".

...Except I never said "Christians who don't believe in evolution amaze me", I said "people who don't believe in evolution amaze me". You're the one who picked Christians out of that, not me.

Would you rather I targeted every single religion in existence? That could take some time. I mentioned Christianity because it's most prevalent, both in US society and in this post. I was simply stating my beliefs as they clash with Christianity, not as they clash with every single religious group in the world.

You keep assuming I'm ignorant when I'm not. I was once a Christian too, I understand that the religion isn't a singularly thinking mass of people. I disagree with your beliefs, but I'm not calling you ignorant for disagreeing with mine. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

Posted by: Reyo Sep 27 2009, 10:52 PM

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:37 PM)

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 11:04 PM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 10:52 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:37 PM)

@Reyo, as I'm unfamiliar with forum formatting and I seem to have posted "more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text".

...Except I never said "Christians who don't believe in evolution amaze me", I said "people who don't believe in evolution amaze me". You're the one who picked Christians out of that, not me.

Would you rather I targeted every single religion in existence? That could take some time. I mentioned Christianity because it's most prevalent, both in US society and in this post. I was simply stating my beliefs as they clash with Christianity, not as they clash with every single religious group in the world.

You keep assuming I'm ignorant when I'm not. I was once a Christian too, I understand that the religion isn't a singularly thinking mass of people. I disagree with your beliefs, but I'm not calling you ignorant for disagreeing with mine. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

*coughcough*

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

Yes, you DID specify Christians, and them being the prevelant religion doesn't mean that should be the ONLY religion to be picked on. And saying that a single group of people are responsible and then saying "Oh I meant this" doesn't make your comment seem any less ignorant. And yes, I DO want you to target all of them, but you're acting like it's such tough shit. All you have to say is "religious people who believe in creationism" and it'll be believable.

The "Blacks robbing banks" comment is also ignorant because I didn't specify that not all blacks rob banks, and saying "I DIDN'T say that they DID" is asking for us to read your mind. I could've said "people" but no, I said blacks because in my fake, not real study, it turns out that blacks tend to rob more banks. It's still ignorant.

And saying "I was once Christian, therefore I can't be ignorant towards them" is like saying "I have a black friend, so I can't be racist." In fact, most of the religion bashers I've seen on the internet were once religious themselves.

Posted by: Reyo Sep 27 2009, 11:14 PM

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 11:04 PM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 10:52 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:37 PM)

@Reyo, as I'm unfamiliar with forum formatting and I seem to have posted "more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text".

...Except I never said "Christians who don't believe in evolution amaze me", I said "people who don't believe in evolution amaze me". You're the one who picked Christians out of that, not me.

Would you rather I targeted every single religion in existence? That could take some time. I mentioned Christianity because it's most prevalent, both in US society and in this post. I was simply stating my beliefs as they clash with Christianity, not as they clash with every single religious group in the world.

You keep assuming I'm ignorant when I'm not. I was once a Christian too, I understand that the religion isn't a singularly thinking mass of people. I disagree with your beliefs, but I'm not calling you ignorant for disagreeing with mine. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

*coughcough*

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

Yes, you DID specify Christians, and them being the prevelant religion doesn't mean that should be the ONLY religion to be picked on. And saying that a single group of people are responsible and then saying "Oh I meant this" doesn't make your comment seem any less ignorant. And yes, I DO want you to target all of them, but you're acting like it's such tough shit. All you have to say is "religious people who believe in creationism" and it'll be believable.

The "Blacks robbing banks" comment is also ignorant because I didn't specify that not all blacks rob banks, and saying "I DIDN'T say that they DID" is asking for us to read your mind. I could've said "people" but no, I said blacks because in my fake, not real study, it turns out that blacks tend to rob more banks. It's still ignorant.

And saying "I was once Christian, therefore I can't be ignorant towards them" is like saying "I have a black friend, so I can't be racist." In fact, most of the religion bashers I've seen on the internet were once religious themselves.

Did you not notice the paragraph break between those two lines? Not once, ever, in any way, did I say "Christians who still believe in creationism amaze me". Ever. Ever. I said people. I didn't bring up Christians until the next paragraph, when again, I didn't say that. I was referring to the fact that in this very thread, a lot of Christians say something along the lines of "I can't not believe in God because I don't believe in so much coincidence/my life can't be a mistake/life is too miraculous to be random" etc. I didn't say "religious people" because I wasn't referring to religious people there, I was referring to Christians specifically, who have said that, just scroll back. The argument doesn't work for me. That was my point. Instead you're going off on some tangent about how I tried to assume that Christians don't believe in evolution, which I never even touched on.

Posted by: tehriah Sep 27 2009, 11:24 PM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 11:14 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 11:04 PM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 27 2009, 10:52 PM)

QUOTE(tehriah @ Sep 27 2009, 10:37 PM)

@Reyo, as I'm unfamiliar with forum formatting and I seem to have posted "more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text".

...Except I never said "Christians who don't believe in evolution amaze me", I said "people who don't believe in evolution amaze me". You're the one who picked Christians out of that, not me.

Would you rather I targeted every single religion in existence? That could take some time. I mentioned Christianity because it's most prevalent, both in US society and in this post. I was simply stating my beliefs as they clash with Christianity, not as they clash with every single religious group in the world.

You keep assuming I'm ignorant when I'm not. I was once a Christian too, I understand that the religion isn't a singularly thinking mass of people. I disagree with your beliefs, but I'm not calling you ignorant for disagreeing with mine. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

*coughcough*

QUOTE

Christians can go agape over all of God's creations all they want, but they'll never convince me that our existence here isn't just one colossal coincidence.

Yes, you DID specify Christians, and them being the prevelant religion doesn't mean that should be the ONLY religion to be picked on. And saying that a single group of people are responsible and then saying "Oh I meant this" doesn't make your comment seem any less ignorant. And yes, I DO want you to target all of them, but you're acting like it's such tough shit. All you have to say is "religious people who believe in creationism" and it'll be believable.

The "Blacks robbing banks" comment is also ignorant because I didn't specify that not all blacks rob banks, and saying "I DIDN'T say that they DID" is asking for us to read your mind. I could've said "people" but no, I said blacks because in my fake, not real study, it turns out that blacks tend to rob more banks. It's still ignorant.

And saying "I was once Christian, therefore I can't be ignorant towards them" is like saying "I have a black friend, so I can't be racist." In fact, most of the religion bashers I've seen on the internet were once religious themselves.

Did you not notice the paragraph break between those two lines? Not once, ever, in any way, did I say "Christians who still believe in creationism amaze me". Ever. Ever. I said people. I didn't bring up Christians until the next paragraph, when again, I didn't say that. I was referring to the fact that in this very thread, a lot of Christians say something along the lines of "I can't not believe in God because I don't believe in so much coincidence/my life can't be a mistake/life is too miraculous to be random" etc. I didn't say "religious people" because I wasn't referring to religious people there, I was referring to Christians specifically, who have said that, just scroll back. The argument doesn't work for me. That was my point. Instead you're going off on some tangent about how I tried to assume that Christians don't believe in evolution, which I never even touched on.

That doesn't make the comment any less offensive to a singular group of people. In your first post, you signled out the religion of Christianity, which makes you come off as biased against that religion and that religion alone. How is ANYONE going to read your mind and say "oh...he meant ALL religions despite singling Christianity" And now you're admitting to singling Christianity, which is just as bad as Racism. I can say "I hate blacks" when I really meant "I hate ethnic minorities." How is ANYONE supposed to get "ethnic minorities" from blacks just like "all religious people" out of "Christians" even though that point is moot since you've just ADMITTED to being biased against Christians on this particular subject. That kind of biased isn't allowed in this country, let alone this forum.

QUOTE

...I have no idea what you're talking about with your bank robbing example, as I didn't specify a specific group of people in my comment about being amazed, and you keep trying to say that I did.

I'm not even talking about your comment about "being amazed" I'm talking about where you specifically targetted Christians for your abuse.

QUOTE

Just because we formerly religious people now bash it doesn't make us ignorant. We've been there and we've done that and we've found something else that suits our personal taste better, we didn't magically forget what it felt like to be Christian. I'm not saying "I have Christian friends so I know how they think", I'm saying I was once a Christian, so yes, I do know how some--not all--think, at least in terms of their overall beliefs. I personally find you accusing me of being ignorant about Christianity just because I no longer follow it to be insulting.

Once being a Christian also doesn't magically give you the moral obligation to bash the singular religion.

Posted by: Pumpkin King Sep 28 2009, 08:57 AM

That's fabulous. Now let's forget this argument and get back on topic.

My ten cents: Evolution is a theory, which is what creationalists like to throw around as their defense. A theory has been proven several times. For example, gravity is considered a theory. It's pretty hard to argue with gravity. And also, creationalism has a very rocky base. The Bible is a very unreliable source. Those stories had been floating around from generation to generation by word of mouth, changing all the time. I won't even mention how inaccurate the original stories were.

Two more cents: Evolution has a kajillion times more evidence than creationalism. And yes, I'm Roman Catholic.

Posted by: TheIgDemon Sep 28 2009, 09:13 AM

I believe in evolution because it has way more evidence than creationism. Creationism just doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: musical Sep 28 2009, 09:22 AM

i'm kinda half and half with this. i believe that there is something up there, God, and he made all of this stuff. with evolution, i believe that god chose certain animals to change so they could adapt to their lifestyle because the way they were built didn't fit.

take whales for example. they used to be land animals a long long time ago. they hunted animals in the water and spent most of their time there. i guess God saw that these animals likes water better than land and chose them to evolve and grow flippers, a blowhole, and all the other characteristics modern whales have.

and replying to what tehriah said about crows having funerals for their dead, elephants do that, too. it's vey elaborate and emotional for the elephants when someone dies and they have a huge funeral for them. i bet elephant could become more like us over time, just as tehriah said with dolphins. elephants are very smart animals.

Posted by: suzyk Sep 28 2009, 03:57 PM

God does not exist to me. God is something created by humans so we can cope with the problems of the world. Because we're insecure and find security in a higher power or supreme creator.

Funny how I'm taking World Religion this year. lol Buddhism is the only fun religion. Except it's a lot like Hinduism. Why is it even a religion.

Posted by: gretchen8642 Oct 3 2009, 09:39 AM

Evolution. I think creation theory works for people who live in a time without any real scientific discovery, searching for answers, but in our modern era it's a bit negligent to ignore pertinent scientific evidence in favor of blind faith.

I dislike that religions sometimes discourage alternative answers and new exploration. (Like imprisoning Galileo because he wanted to learn about the orbit of the sun and earth)

Posted by: Cann Mephisto Oct 5 2009, 07:12 AM

Evlution..

God doesn't exist...

Posted by: Reyo Oct 5 2009, 04:59 PM

QUOTE(suzyk @ Sep 28 2009, 03:57 PM)

Posted by: Suikun Oct 5 2009, 08:57 PM

QUOTE(gretchen8642 @ Oct 3 2009, 09:39 AM)

Posted by: Libie Oct 6 2009, 08:44 AM

Just my opinion but... can't you have both? Can't you just say God created everything (via the Big Bang, or anything you like) and He keeps shaping the world using evolution? I mean yes the Bible said that God created everything in 7 days and all but surely people don't take everything from the Bible as 100% fact? The Bible wasn't even written by God, it was written by people, and people aren't a very reliable source...

Also, the Church once claimed that the Earth was at the centre of the universe. Good try, but what the Church says isn't necessarily always right People of the church =/= God, and people do make mistakes, is all I'm gonna say...

And yes, by the way, people who claim that "evolution doesn't exist because it's just a theory" should look at genetic research which has proved evolution beyond a doubt at least a million times over. Who's going to step up and claim that DNA doesn't replicate, isn't used to make proteins, doesn't undergo meiosis, and doesn't mutate? Be my guest. Genes and DNA exist - it is through them that evolution even happens. Yes, evolution is a "theory", but genetics is not. Just like Pumpkin King explained, gravity is a "theory" - the fact that apples fall to the ground is not. But I digress. The point of this topic is "Creationism vs evolution" and my two cents is: why not both xD

Posted by: babyk1lla Oct 6 2009, 08:57 AM

well i dont believe in either i was raised to believe in god my parents but later on i started taking my own path i dont believe in evolution because i really dont think we came from monkeys and i dont believe god's theory because every body calls a book "the bible" i mean its just a book written by man there is no proof of god they say hes all perfect now if he was why is there bad in the world? there wouldn't be any if he were "perfect" i believe in jesus because he did set feet on the land but god? who is "he" is he even a person? I wont ever believe in god until i see it thats just the way i feel

Posted by: Bloodlust Oct 6 2009, 10:20 AM

I agree with Libie.

Not only was the Big Bang perfectly structured to create our solar system, it also made it possible so that Earth was ideal for life to grow and develop and also, if the big bang created our solar system, who created the universe? I someone or something created the big bang, I also believe they made the earth's atmosphere so perfect. But I believe it was evolution that created us, and not Adam and Eve.

Posted by: Libie Oct 6 2009, 10:22 AM

QUOTE(babyk1lla @ Oct 6 2009, 02:57 PM)

Posted by: Drifty Oct 6 2009, 02:08 PM

God. There are too many gaps in evolution, and a lot of the "facts" they have were proven to be falsified decades ago, yet are still used in textbooks. Plus, there's evidence that completely disproves the entire concept of evolution. Ask me what if you will, I'll have the answers, and the sources to back them up.

Posted by: Reyo Oct 6 2009, 03:07 PM

QUOTE(Drifty @ Oct 6 2009, 02:08 PM)

Posted by: FlareLove11 Oct 7 2009, 01:17 PM

God exists...Period. He sent His only Son to die on the cross for our sins. That's what I believe in; I'm going to heaven when I die because I told God that I believed that He sent His Son and I meant it. It takes some faith to believe. Read the Bible, Foo.

Posted by: Reyo Oct 7 2009, 01:20 PM

QUOTE(FlareLove11 @ Oct 7 2009, 01:17 PM)

Posted by: Remi Oct 7 2009, 08:48 PM

I'm not really sure anymore... I was raised Christian, but over the past few months I have been questioning my faith. By no means am I an atheist, but I have come to accept that there is no way of knowing whether there is a god or not, and to just be happy with the life I have.

I don't find the idea of God or any gods invalid, because I believe that a person's thoughts create their world. If you believe in something, then it is real for you.

Posted by: FueledByPokemon Oct 8 2009, 02:47 PM

Evolution Completly .
God cant change us no matter how powerful he is . It is us who change ourselfs

&&Im The Same As Remi ;D

Posted by: Pokefunguy Oct 8 2009, 03:29 PM

QUOTE(FueledByPokemon @ Oct 8 2009, 02:47 PM)

Posted by: Lilijka Nov 9 2009, 03:34 PM

QUOTE(Libie @ Oct 6 2009, 04:22 PM)

QUOTE(babyk1lla @ Oct 6 2009, 02:57 PM)

i dont believe in evolution because i really dont think we came from monkeys

Just a nitpick: we descend from apes, not monkeys Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but we are not properly *descendants* of apes, either: they're our cousins. Us and apes were descended from a common ancestor millions of years ago. So, no, chimps, gorillas etc. aren't our grandparents, but our cousins 798349 times removed or something xD

(...)

Posted by: Rokoka Nov 9 2009, 04:23 PM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 15 2008, 10:03 PM)

God vs Evolution

Posted by: Jessica Chen Nov 9 2009, 10:30 PM

I believe in evolution. why did God destroy the dinosaurs? Where do Adam and Eve fit in? How is it possible for someone to come from the dead? Those are some of the reasons I DONT believe in God

Posted by: magikarp dude Nov 13 2009, 03:43 PM

I believe in God.
I don't know why you guys think that evolution is scientific because some scientist that i forgot the name of PROVED evolution to be wrong.
Once something in science is proven wrong it is and always will be wrong!

Posted by: Reyo Nov 13 2009, 08:29 PM

QUOTE(magikarp dude @ Nov 13 2009, 03:43 PM)

I don't know why you guys think that evolution is scientific because some scientist that i forgot the name of PROVED evolution to be wrong.

Posted by: Lord Raven Nov 13 2009, 08:58 PM

on top of that, can you provide any of your own proof that contrasts our own arguments against evolution? I guarantee you, I know enough to tell when someone is bullshitting me, and Reyo definitely knows far more than I do about evolution to argue against crap.

Posted by: Rokoka Nov 15 2009, 12:31 AM

QUOTE(magikarp dude @ Nov 13 2009, 03:43 PM)

I believe in God.
I don't know why you guys think that evolution is scientific because some scientist that i forgot the name of PROVED evolution to be wrong.
Once something in science is proven wrong it is and always will be wrong!

QUOTE

Bones are being found that link to human evolution millions of years ago
The Bible does not go Back over a million years let alone Millions

You can't find ANYTHING that is 1 million years old and find out it is 1 million years old! The only way scientists get those numbers is using radiometric dating which is an incredibly unreliable source. You can only get the APPROXIMATE date for stuff about 2000-4000 years old!
And also the bones would've already decomposed! did they show you their "bones" that they "found"? Who told you that those bones are being found?

Well your wrong and here's your Proof

ADDIS ABABA — Scientists in Ethiopia
have discovered bones of human ancestors
that might be up to 5.8 million years old.
They would be the oldest found thus far.
AP PHOTO

Posted by: Brevity Nov 15 2009, 12:40 AM

I completely believe in evolution.
Personally I think God is just a belief for people who are too weak to stand up to reality and what's really happening in their lives. o.o Simple really.

If somebody could prove to me, scientifically /prove/ to me, that God was real, then fantastic, I'll go with that. But until that impossible thing is proven, I'm sticking with evolution. It makes way more sense then some old guy popping out of absolutely nowhere and making a new everything.


---no, that was not bashing. This is an opinion thread. Don't hate on me for my honest opinion. ><

Posted by: Rokoka Nov 15 2009, 01:06 AM

QUOTE(Brevity @ Nov 15 2009, 12:40 AM)

Posted by: Reyo Nov 15 2009, 01:50 AM

QUOTE(Rokoka @ Nov 15 2009, 01:06 AM)

Posted by: Ieva Kasku Nov 15 2009, 10:42 PM

Well, for one thing the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. There are so many different religions out there, and different sects in the same religions, all of them holding very different views on this matter. Since I am primarily acquainted with Christianity, being a Catholic myself, and not really qualified to speak for other religions, I'll focus on that. I and many of my friends believe very firmly in the existence of both God and evolution. Even if you do take the bible completely literally, which isn't all that common, it is mentioned that 'one day' for God would be quite a long time for humans. Seven days could easily be the millennia required for evolution. Just because God created plants and animals and whatnot doesn't mean that He created them exactly how they are today. There is quite a lot of scientific evidence pointing to evolution, and contrary to what several people in this thread seem to think, just because I believe in God doesn't mean that I discount evidence when it comes to science, and that goes for plenty of other religious people too. Mendel was a monk, after all.

As for scientific proof of God's existence, why? Religion and science aren't the same thing: one requires proof, the other requires faith. There's no proof He doesn't either; one of the core principles of science is that you can't prove something doesn't exist.

Posted by: Villerar Nov 16 2009, 06:14 AM

I'm an anti-naturalist evolutionary creationist, which basically means I reject naturalism (everything in the universe being a result of only mechanistic natural processes) and accept evolution and creation.

I acknowledge there is a chance for life to develop merely by mechanisms, but I think that chance would probably be too slim to be taken seriously, or better said: I think the expected outcome would be smaller than one organism.

Posted by: Blueflame Nov 19 2009, 05:30 PM

QUOTE(Ieva Kasku @ Nov 15 2009, 09:42 PM)

Posted by: Booklover323 Nov 24 2009, 01:18 AM

Amen to that, Ieva Kasku.

To be quite frank, I don't believe it's possible to fully prove the existence of either evolution or creation by scientific means. Each belief requires a degree of faith.

I mean, let's face it, people...evolution is just a more elaborate version of spontaneous generation, a belief held in medieval times that maggots sprang from rotting flesh. And so on. We can't prove evolution nor creation because none of us were there to witness it. Our dating methods are far from accurate, as they require an estimate as to the amount of carbon in the atmosphere at the time, an estimate that could turn out to be incredibly off, or worse, purposefully skewed.

It's not science vs. religion, it's one belief system against the other. Evolution will not and cannot ever be proven, and if it happens to be disproven (as I personally believe it has been), another Godless origin theory is bound to spring up in its place.

And creationism is never going to be 100% proven because, well, you can't exactly prove the existence of God, now, can you?

So why is the world endlessly debating about "proof" when there is no such thing as solid proof of a single origin theory?

Posted by: pichu egg Nov 25 2009, 09:18 AM

Evolution, duh! Are there any evidence of god creating the universe? no. Are there any evidence of evolution? Yes. If it wasn't for evolution, this website wouldn't exist along with the other 999,999,999 websites. So yes, evolution does exist and those who believe in the Bible are idiots.

Posted by: Cortney Nov 28 2009, 08:30 PM

I believe in evolution 100%. I highly doubt the existence of any god, especially the Christian god described in the Bible. I'm technically agnostic, but I believe there is proof against a hands-on, helpful god.

Posted by: Villerar Jan 3 2010, 10:55 AM

I "believe" in both. I put the quotation marks there, because I don't think believing is the proper word for a scientific theory, model or theorem. Those usually are used until they are replaced by better ones and are thus tentative. We should always be ready to discard them for better ones, though old theories are usually included as a specific case inside a new theory.

I don't think God's existence can be proven, nor that evolution can be proven. God is by definition not falsifiable, evolution is by definition falsifiable. Because evolution is falsifiable, we could at one point be urged to reject it. That said, I don't think it will be rejected in the strong sense of being completely discarded, but will be rejected in the sense of being improved. There are still some imperfections, which will probably be mended in future decades.

As I said before I'm an evolutionary creationist, the meaning of which you all can infer. I don't think people who believe in God are evading reality for the obvious reason God is reality to them. It is just at which side of that argument you are whether you classify one view as real or another.

I am convinced there is no proof against an omnipotent, benevolent deity, unless you assume God necessarily sets things straight right away whenever anybody commits any wrong. The problem of evil is not a strong argument in my eyes because of that assumption and the consequences. I know it is for rather many people, but I fail to see its logical merits.

Posted by: individuo Jan 3 2010, 12:18 PM

Evolution is pretty much fact. The only reason it is and was ridiculed in the first place was because it greatly opposed the teaching of the catholic church and the Papal State who's word has been pretty much the law of the Western world since it's creation.

If It wasn't for the Papal States tight grip on the believes on western society. I really don't think we would be having this debate.

God (in my view) is a security blanket people cling to when we feel sad or alone. A small glimmer of hope in a darkened world. Existing only in the heads of those who believe in him/her/it. Hence why the physical existence of god can never be proved.

Posted by: Villerar Jan 3 2010, 04:16 PM

QUOTE(individuo @ Jan 3 2010, 12:18 PM)

Posted by: Kiseki Lin Jan 3 2010, 11:12 PM

I believe in what I believe. I believe that there's a God and I believe in evolution. To me, why couldn't there be a God who created what was necessary way back when and then evolution continued on the process? Onto the Christian bible, I watched a documentary years ago on the History channel that the story of Adam and Eve was similar to another story that they found in some place. I can't remember. But this is all in my personal opinion along with my personal belief, so yeah...

Posted by: EmperorJinju Jan 3 2010, 11:27 PM

Both god and Evolution can be falsified for all we now we could be some aliens science experiment and getting real tired of people saying there is god and that he is real pretty much forcing others to believe in it all religion is same they all believe a god or gods who the earth and everything on it and that He\She\Them made laws which ever human must follow and people are too stupid to realize if there is god then he could have created the necessitates and bacteria that to days life evolved .So unless you show me proof and fly me up to heaven and show me god and it says that he created us as we are then i stick with a theory that has been tested and is being proved.

Posted by: NineOrchids Jan 4 2010, 12:01 AM

A mix of both I guess...god created creatures and we evolved into what we are now. =/ I dunno... just what I think.

Posted by: MelodyHarp Jan 4 2010, 09:45 PM

I say evolution.

Posted by: Amina Jan 6 2010, 09:39 PM

Evolution, it just seams to make more sense to me. Although I do believe in other things like reincarnation, so God theory doesn't seam too out there for me, but I'm a science dork c: (Despite believing in reincarnation x3)

Posted by: sunsetstation Jan 9 2010, 11:40 PM

Evolution. Creationism makes no sense to me.

Posted by: Starceuscream Jan 10 2010, 12:25 AM

Evolution is a part of God's creation. There is nothing that exists that God did not create. Therefore even if evolution is how we came into being, it was God that created that evolution to begin with.

Posted by: Jack Frost Jan 10 2010, 04:51 AM

Naturally Earth is, like, 6,000 years old. Dinosaurs are here only to test our faith

Posted by: Reyo Jan 12 2010, 01:24 PM

QUOTE(Jack Frost @ Jan 10 2010, 04:51 AM)

Naturally Earth is, like, 6,000 years old. Dinosaurs are here only to test our faith

Posted by: DragonRelaX Jan 13 2010, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Shoutai @ Jun 16 2008, 04:03 AM)

Posted by: Lucian Jan 13 2010, 01:29 PM

BOTH obviously. Gosh it's like you can't have one without the other :U

Or you know I could go off on a tirade of completely trivial things about how I think it was all created but... that would just waste time haha, so uh. Yeah I'm not a very religious person at all but it's not like I completely disbelieve the whole god theory/story/whatever. My mother even admitted it was a pretty farfetch'd(dohoho do you see what I did there I bet you did) but she was like "but then why is there good and evil" and all. It can't very much be explained.

But even with religious morals, I don't get why people get offended by the idea of evolution. Like seriously, thousands of years ago a human couldn't live as long as we could today. Even if it wasn't physical evolution, it was evolution of our knowledge of chemicals and herbs and better health that gave us more ways to elongate our lives so TECHNICALLY evolution exist, just in ~different forms~

So I can't really pick one, so both.

Posted by: FollowingDemons Jan 14 2010, 11:24 PM

I'm a strong believer of Evolution and the whole "survival of the fittest" thing.

I think that our ancestors had evolved from organisms that managed to survive through the Earth's torturous events. The human race itself may evolve into something greater to help them survive as the Earth changes.

Posted by: Eniguma Jan 18 2010, 11:27 PM

I can't fall for either one, and you know, I don't have to. The quote "I think, therefor I am" sums it up pretty nicely.

To elaborate, I just don't see anything worth believing in either. If we were created, it's pretty apparent, minus all that shit that happened before two thousand years ago, that it doesn't want us to know about it. Seriously, what kind of god could just leave us down here and only let us into their kingdom if we believed in something we had no proof for? A pretty self centered one, one which I wouldn't even want to spend eternity with.

Evolution? I guess there's not much to say here. I find the whole theory very interesting, and I often research it, but there's just not enough for it to win me over.

Posted by: Drifty Feb 12 2010, 02:34 AM

QUOTE(Eniguma @ Jan 18 2010, 11:27 PM)

Posted by: Reyo Feb 12 2010, 03:00 AM

QUOTE(Eniguma @ Jan 19 2010, 12:27 AM)

QUOTE(Drifty @ Feb 12 2010, 03:34 AM)

QUOTE(Eniguma @ Jan 18 2010, 11:27 PM)

I can't fall for either one, and you know, I don't have to. The quote "I think, therefor I am" sums it up pretty nicely.

To elaborate, I just don't see anything worth believing in either. If we were created, it's pretty apparent, minus all that shit that happened before two thousand years ago, that it doesn't want us to know about it. Seriously, what kind of god could just leave us down here and only let us into their kingdom if we believed in something we had no proof for? A pretty self centered one, one which I wouldn't even want to spend eternity with.

Evolution? I guess there's not much to say here. I find the whole theory very interesting, and I often research it, but there's just not enough for it to win me over.

Whether or not we have proof is a matter of opinion. It simply depends on who you are, how you see things, and what "proof" you have access to. For instance, my sister was born with Dwaine's syndrome (a disease affecting the eye muscles) and had to wear glasses, although there wasn't really a prescription that could help due to the nature of the disease. God healed her eyes. Or at least I assume it was God because it happened while she was being prayed over and I happen to believe in God. Another person may look at it and decide that the problem was merely psychological and she "snapped" out of it. It's all relative.

As for evolution, I agree. I find the theory interesting, but I can't help but recognize the enormous gaps that exist, especially on the cellular level. And then of course there's their ridiculous theory on how life initially began. I mean, seriously, chemical soup? That's code for: "We have no idea."

Posted by: Drifty Feb 12 2010, 10:10 AM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Feb 12 2010, 03:00 AM)

Posted by: Reyo Feb 12 2010, 10:48 AM

QUOTE(Drifty @ Feb 12 2010, 11:10 AM)

Posted by: Drifty Feb 12 2010, 11:04 AM

QUOTE(Reyo @ Feb 12 2010, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Feb 12 2010, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Feb 12 2010, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Feb 12 2010, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE(Reyo @ Feb 12 2010, 10:48 AM)

Posted by: Reyo Feb 12 2010, 11:38 AM

QUOTE(Drifty @ Feb 12 2010, 12:04 PM)

Yeah, I've noticed that too! Like, there's a little bit of physics involved, like with the light spectrum in regards to photosynthesis, and chemistry with the electrons and energy conversion, etc. I think it's extremely entertaining.

Posted by: Steelsentry Feb 14 2010, 08:33 PM

I believe in evolutionary creationism. the idea that a/(the) greater being(s) started something a long time ago, where things started reacting to each other. These things eventually formed a universe, which in turn caused the mutation of some of these things into organic and inorganic material, which, in turn became static and dynamic entities which became plants and animals.

Posted by: Villerar Feb 19 2010, 11:12 AM

QUOTE(EmperorJinju @ Jan 3 2010, 11:27 PM)

Posted by: Frankincensy Feb 19 2010, 04:53 PM

I believe in evolution but I don't think it necessarily conflicts with the idea of God. Although I'm agnostic, I don't think it's impossible that a God(s) could have created evolution as the manner in which life on Earth develops.