[X] My Assistant

[Blueberry]

Haiti started out as a huge land of plantation, a slave country taken over and pumped out for trade purposes only. You can say Haiti has had a hard life. The main reason for the earthquake being so bad and causing the damage that was done was their poor building structure, which was mostly their fault. The earthquake however wasn't their fault.

From the views of most: Haiti was a disaster waiting to happen.
From the views of many: It should be helped but not at America's dime.
From the views of some: Let's pack up and do what we can now.

This is a quote from one of my friends while we talked about how it's clogging up the news and more people know about this than the beef recalls that are currently happening where I live.

Bush had his hurricane now Obama has a earthquake that didn't even happen here. I agree with you on that. it's clogging up the airways and leaving out everything important. I learned a lot about Haiti last year and it was a pretty damned country to begin with. Now there is nothing left and we are pumping money, time, and energy into the place that HAS nothing left. No, I would not help Haiti if I ruled a country. They are now reduced to animals. They should of prepared for this to happen, for me being Dominican, we are prepared enough as California is or maybe a little less (but that's not the point). American is simply doing this for their own well being and the feeling that they are doing something great when actuality they are controlling a giant zoo of animals who have nothing left. Just look at the videos on youtube of the people rioting and hoarding....it took five days for them to start saving people. The natives of Haiti watched and listened to their loved ones be hurt and covered in the ruins of buildings and waited for the help that would come. Time could of been saved if their own police force and fire stations did that but guess what...they don't HAVE anything like that. They are facing poverty, hunger, and a now epic crime rate due to the fact that their prison was destroyed too. So now they have a bunch of rapist, xcons, and murderers out there starting gangs. There IS no help left. They are now officially a third world country...Haiti has needed help for a long time and it's too late now.

I do agree, on everything he just said. Haiti has actually been in crisis for years and it takes them being completely broken down for us to save them. Here are some Youtube videos, one is from a year ago and the rest are whats happening now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCeWmwx9dh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FY3j7nT4XI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g3NqmAvrbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmwScgNBf4Y

BBC (tis where I go for my news or Korean or British news on tv) of course has stuff posted on this too:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8455629.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8456322.stm

So what do you think? Yes or no? Defend your side and please don't yell and bitch at others because of their views on this issue.

This post has been edited by Blueberry: Jan 20 2010, 09:50 AM

[Lord Raven]

I'd like to Haiti's been given the fresh start it's needed, and we're helping them start things up again.

[MoogleSam]

I think we should since no matter what, they are still human beings no matter what and they need help.

How is the poor structuring their fault if their building safety regulations didn't include earthquake insurance? They couldn't control that, that is their government's job to decide if they need it or not and they clearly didn't think they did.

Oh, and it wasn't just that one earthquake which caused so much damage, the aftershocks were 5.3 and 5.5 on the Richter Scale which is still pretty strong, aftershocks don't tend to be that powerful normally.

[Wishful Jirachi]

I would help them, even if they were starting out bad. They don't deserve to not have our help because of that. Technically no one doesn't deserve help for any reason. Everyone should be able to get the same things from people, not special stuff just because of the way they were before they needed it.

[Annakyoyama358]

This is supposed to be a serious topic?
We as a country have done easily as many horrid things as Haiti could think of doing. We have plenty of old buildings that outta be burned down, and plenty of buildings that an earthquake would destroy. It's not like Haiti is Cali, they're hardly in a quake-heavy area.
We take care of our worse, most disgusting people. Killers, rapists, death row inmates.... They live a better life than half the world. But we shouldn't help people of a poor country who couldn't afford to build EARTHQUAKE reesistant buildings only a couple hundred miles from FLORIDA?
OF COURSE we should help Haiti. If it were your state/country/area that need help (i'm loking at you, New orleans) you'd expect help. Good people help other people. Period

This post has been edited by Annakyoyama358: Jan 21 2010, 01:31 AM

[Koritsi]

I do believe we should help. Yes the country was in ruins before the earthquake, but that is not the peoples' fault, all the years of bad leadership lead the island nation to be the poorest country of the Americas.

[Xal]

I've tried to write a reply a few times now (the first just a few minutes after the thread was posted), but I've scrapped all of them in disbelief. The extent of the ignorance, not to mention the disgusting belief that the people of Haiti deserve to die for a list of nonsensical 'reasons', in the OP is quite horrific. There's just no use in constructing a reasoned argument against it.

[Rugal]

Should we help out? Yes. Allow me to explain why:

No matter where you live, you're always going to be exposed to natural catastrophes. Be it getting hit by hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, shifting in major tectonic plates, tornados in the Midwest, or mudslides in LA county. While I can attest and agree with New Orleans being a disaster in the making, Haiti is a completely different ballgame.

[I could type a 25 page paper on the pure Economic side of it, but I'll save some heartache for myself]

The island of Hispanola lies right on (relative in geographic terms, not exactly on top) two major tectonic plates. Now with it being originally a plantation island for sending sugarcane back to Europe, it's not exactly the best off place financially considering what the French and Spaniards did to the people there. Also in a globalized society nations become wealthy when they have things that other people want. Considering Haiti doesn't exactly have a whole lot of natural resources to tap into in order to shoot higher in the international trade market. Knowing this, it doesn't leave them a lot of bank to work with, which is needed to build safer buildings. Now going off of that, seeing that it lies on two major tectonic plates leaves it ripe for earthquakes. What can they exactly do? They don't have the cash to hire contractors and build a better infrastructure and they don't have the cash to skip home and leave for a "better off" country.

Now is Philanthropy a bad thing? Never will be; Donating a couple bucks here and there to charity is never a bad thing because people need the help.

Who knows, maybe you'll end up finding yourself begging for the bare essentials of life one day.

So what do you think? Yes or no? Defend your side and please don't yell and bitch at others because of their views on this issue.

I dunno man, you stated quite a few extreme statements in your post. Usually those tend to trigger such responses.

[Blueberry]

So what do you think? Yes or no? Defend your side and please don't yell and bitch at others because of their views on this issue.

I dunno man, you stated quite a few extreme statements in your post. Usually those tend to trigger such responses.

Let me explain that a bit, I have been in debates to where people are told "YOU'RE JUST WRONG!" if you are gonna say someone is wrong, prove it. This is a debate, if you have a side support it. Trust me in a debate class you learn to either push people to their limit of "Oh yea..well maybe" or till they have nothing to say. :/ I have been called (and watch people be called) hateful words just because of the way they are against others on a subject....just prove your point other than starting pointless drama. It's rare that everyone's views are the same.

EDIT:

I read over some of the responses and pretty much came up with all your arguments against not helping them saying, "They need our help because they are helpless." Somewhat like a old man should be helped across the street but I can bet that most of you would not help that man across the street. Trust me I have seen it done and rarely anyone stops from their busy-doing-nothing walk to help them.

I am sorry but we are JUST BARELY helping our growing homeless population and I don't see many people stopping to give THEM ten dollars other than texting it to some organization. :/ I actually will stop and give them some extra change if I have it but I don't see many people actually do it.

Think about it the next time you see a homeless person begging or playing something for change to get by or a someone struggling to get down the street....


This post has been edited by Blueberry: Jan 27 2010, 10:50 PM

[Lord Raven]

i really don't think a minor point in the opening post is worth dissecting, by the way, especially if it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[Rugal]

Bush had his hurricane now Obama has a earthquake that didn't even happen here. I agree with you on that. it's clogging up the airways and leaving out everything important. I learned a lot about Haiti last year and it was a pretty damned country to begin with. Now there is nothing left and we are pumping money, time, and energy into the place that HAS nothing left.

Oh yeah, clearly because those who live in Haiti didn't have the choice of where they live, have zero marketable value globally to get investors to put money in their pockets to work with, so an earthquake which was COMPLETELY OUT OF THEIR REALM OF CONTROL destroys the entire country's near non-existent infrastructure warrants 9 million people to die just because the people are just some poor third world heathens who will never amount to anything useful in society. Awesome man, I'd buy you a plane ticket to Haiti just to see you get flogged by that statement alone.

No, I would not help Haiti if I ruled a country. They are now reduced to animals. They should of prepared for this to happen, for me being Dominican, we are prepared enough as California is or maybe a little less (but that's not the point).

Yeah going back to the point of no cash to work with. You need money in order to "prepare" for things like this. You also need things worth trading for in order to get cash in a globalized society. So no cash = no preparation. Stellar logic right there once again.

American is simply doing this for their own well being and the feeling that they are doing something great when actuality they are controlling a giant zoo of animals who have nothing left.

Seems a lot of the world agrees, seeing that over a billion greenbacks have been donated from all parts of the world to help out. I also commend you that you used the term "animal" correct in it's scientific context, seeing that Humans are indeed, animals.

Just look at the videos on youtube of the people rioting and hoarding....it took five days for them to start saving people. The natives of Haiti watched and listened to their loved ones be hurt and covered in the ruins of buildings and waited for the help that would come. Time could of been saved if their own police force and fire stations did that but guess what...they don't HAVE anything like that. They are facing poverty, hunger, and a now epic crime rate due to the fact that their prison was destroyed too. So now they have a bunch of rapist, xcons, and murderers out there starting gangs. There IS no help left. They are now officially a third world country...Haiti has needed help for a long time and it's too late now.

People starting up gangs and pillaging others happens in every catastrophic disaster. Seeing that if small groups of people collaborate you have a much higher chance of survival instead of trying to make it purely on your own. Also I have no certification or any type of training to go rescue people trapped in collapsed 5 story buildings, so the best I can do realistically is drop a couple Washingtons so that the people over there on the scene can do what they're there to do.

I read over some of the responses and pretty much came up with all your arguments against not helping them saying, "They need our help because they are helpless."

Well, they are helpless: No electricity, no clean water, multiple disease and sanitation issues, a lot of things an average Joe in a wealthy country would take for granted.

Somewhat like a old man should be helped across the street but I can bet that most of you would not help that man across the street. Trust me I have seen it done and rarely anyone stops from their busy-doing-nothing walk to help them.

I actually do that fairly often. However one lone person can only help out so much and look after them self as well. Plus I'm not exactly certified to go preform CPR or other first aid procedures on people in need, so I'd likely end up making the situation worse if confronted with an actual emergency. Cell phones and 911 are perfectly reasonable and legit ways to help.

I am sorry but we are JUST BARELY helping our growing homeless population and I don't see many people stopping to give THEM ten dollars other than texting it to some organization. :/ I actually will stop and give them some extra change if I have it but I don't see many people actually do it.

I see homeless people all the time. Believe it or not, I live in the Rockford Metro Area, which is currently ranked in the Top 15 in Unemployment here in the US. About 60% of the city looks like a scene right out of an LA project district. I like to donate to as many charitable organizations as I can deem worthy, but I also have to look out for my own financial well being as well. Also the whole texting thing is a brilliant tool for donating money. A great deal of people use smart-phones nowadays so having the 10 bucks tacked on to their monthly bill and then sent directly to Red Cross and other charities is a hell of a lot faster then dealing with cash and loose change.

Eh, whatever. It's like talking to a brick wall. I'm done.

[Xal]

I have been in debates to where people are told "YOU'RE JUST WRONG!"

Probably because you are.

Some things just don't need disproving.

[Lord Raven]

I read over some of the responses and pretty much came up with all your arguments against not helping them saying, "They need our help because they are helpless." Somewhat like a old man should be helped across the street but I can bet that most of you would not help that man across the street. Trust me I have seen it done and rarely anyone stops from their busy-doing-nothing walk to help them.

I am sorry but we are JUST BARELY helping our growing homeless population and I don't see many people stopping to give THEM ten dollars other than texting it to some organization. :/ I actually will stop and give them some extra change if I have it but I don't see many people actually do it.

To some extent, i feel as if the homeless have had their chance and lost it because they didn't do their job well enough.

the people of haiti? yes, their government was shit to start, but they have absolutely NOTHING now. at least the homeless are in America and probably even have shelters to get into; the haitans (?) have nothing.

[Yamper]

Now. If it happened in America, it'd get there ALOT quicker and they'd get better help.

Plus, im surprised at all the people coming out alive. I couldn't believe my ears when i heard about the 84 year old woman coming out alive. But it's the fact, they've been saved and just left there. And the bus incident. Supposed to be free, yet they have to pay. Whats The Effing Point?! It's completely Pointless by making them do things they can't do. They should still send all the help they have though.

[Ezio]

Bah if they need help, help em.

This post has been edited by Ezio: Feb 11 2010, 05:33 PM

[Elito]

Well, of course the country is a mess when it was a mess before! You cant say its theirs fault for bad buildings. Haiti is a poor country. And if you have at least a little bit of humanity inside yourself, you would feel compassion, and you would at least think on a way to help them or try.

It maybe is true, politicians are just doing that for their own glory and to show people they do good, but I think we as normal humans should feel at least compassion.

[Ezio]

Well, of course the country is a mess when it was a mess before! You cant say its theirs fault for bad buildings. Haiti is a poor country. And if you have at least a little bit of humanity inside yourself, you would feel compassion, and you would at least think on a way to help them or try.

It maybe is true, politicians are just doing that for their own glory and to show people they do good, but I think we as normal humans should feel at least compassion.

I'm going to agree with this...

[Unskilled78]

Should we help out? Yes. Allow me to explain why:

No matter where you live, you're always going to be exposed to natural catastrophes. Be it getting hit by hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, shifting in major tectonic plates, tornados in the Midwest, or mudslides in LA county. While I can attest and agree with New Orleans being a disaster in the making, Haiti is a completely different ballgame.

[I could type a 25 page paper on the pure Economic side of it, but I'll save some heartache for myself]

The island of Hispanola lies right on (relative in geographic terms, not exactly on top) two major tectonic plates. Now with it being originally a plantation island for sending sugarcane back to Europe, it's not exactly the best off place financially considering what the French and Spaniards did to the people there. Also in a globalized society nations become wealthy when they have things that other people want. Considering Haiti doesn't exactly have a whole lot of natural resources to tap into in order to shoot higher in the international trade market. Knowing this, it doesn't leave them a lot of bank to work with, which is needed to build safer buildings. Now going off of that, seeing that it lies on two major tectonic plates leaves it ripe for earthquakes. What can they exactly do? They don't have the cash to hire contractors and build a better infrastructure and they don't have the cash to skip home and leave for a "better off" country.

Now is Philanthropy a bad thing? Never will be; Donating a couple bucks here and there to charity is never a bad thing because people need the help.

Who knows, maybe you'll end up finding yourself begging for the bare essentials of life one day.

but would hurling money at them help? Sure, they can build earthquake-resistant homes, but what happens when a hurricane hits them (again) and damages those homes? Will their economy somehow be able to survive because of that charity we threw at them now? Is Hati just one of those countries that will never be able to thrive on its own?

[Vox]

^That's a bit of a weird approach though - if your house was burnt down because it was struck by lightning, should you 'waste money' by buying another one, in case that second one also gets hit by lightning?

[Pollen]

Haiti actually hasn't been given that much money. I think when a country faces a disaster such as that, the rest of the world should take notice and aid them. What I think renders aid weak is the management. It is reasonable for someone to assume that we will not get much bang for our buck.