[X] My Assistant

[Gati]

This is not to talk about the legalization of hemp (cannabis, marijuana, other names for it whatever the hell you want to call it).
I made this topic to talk about why it should stay illegal.
Basically because.. I can not find any serious topics as of why it is still illegal. The only fucking thing I've heard is "because it gets you high" and "its bad for you" if that's the only reason you have too, just don't post and shut up. Plus, it has been proven that it is less harmful than tobacco and alcohol.

Uses of hemp: Paper, food, oil, fuel, water and soil purification, weed control, dietary supplement, medicine, fiber, animal bedding, building material, composite materials, cordage (ropes), fabric.

Why it should stay illegal: ???

[Reyo]

1. Why alcohol is legal while weed is not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition

2. Why weed will most likely stay illegal.

You know what the difference between alcohol/tobacco and weed is? You need to first ask yourself this question: Do you know what it takes to process tobacco/make alcoholic drinks?

In order to get weed, all you do is have the plant growing in your basement for 3 months...then BAM! You've got your ass a jungle. Even then, all you do is roll the thing up in a thing of paper and light it. That's. About. It.

Do you know how/have the equipment to make cigarettes? The government does.
Do you know how/have the equipment to make alcohol? The government does.

The government can tax the living shit out of alcohol and tobacco because they know that the general public is ignorant to how to produce, and sell it, themselves. Meanwhile, it only takes one guy to have one seed planted in his basement untill he's got his own under-the-table hash buisiness...where the government won't see a dime.

Sure, they can sell seeds by the pair for an erroneous amount of money, but that'll be the only amount of money the government makes off of that guy. The guy takes the seeds and starts growing. Then he reserves half of his newly aquired jungle for personal consumption, and the other half for black market smoking. To make it worse, the guy sells his suply for HALF of what the government sells it for. He'll still get his money back since he'll have half a freaken jungle to work with, unless you're proposing we sell seeds for the cost of a small house...

Well fine, we'll devote a taskforce to sniff out, and stop illegal weed selling opporations...but how would that be any different from the CURRENT war on marijuana?

TL;DR The govmentsa big greedy poopy pants and won't legalize it cuz there aint no money to be made...man >:(

[Gati]

Alcohol was legalize mainly because everyone ignored the law and constant smuggling was also ignored unlike cannabis. Plus, alcohol is also a traditional drink and every country has their traditional alcoholic drink.

In the past, in the U.S, using hemp for many things was fine, until it was seen as an "evil plant", making it look that it had no use whatsoever such as opium.

You're mainly talking about the dry form of cannabis, which is used as a drug. However, alcohol isn't hard to make, and growing cannabis isn't as easy to grow, why do you think the "guy" that grows and sells it in his basement can't get as much as the ones that smuggled it in.
I have no idea why you're talking about the government. Companies are the ones whom own the breweries and others that own the land.

Some states are already pushing for industrial hemp, I think Oregon is the only state that currently has licensed industrial hemp.

Actually if they legalize it, a big company, most likely a tobacco one, would mass produce it like tobacco and there'll be no point for others to illegally sell it. It's believed that it'll help out the economy a little for the taxation.

[Reyo]

Alcohol was legalize mainly because everyone ignored the law and constant smuggling was also ignored unlike cannabis. Plus, alcohol is also a traditional drink and every country has their traditional alcoholic drink.

No, it was made illegal because of the fact that alcohol poisoning was killing people. It was made legal again because bootleg alcohol peddlers would put things like fermandehide in the drink to make it last longer. Eventually, more people were dieing from all of the chemicals that people put into the bathtub gin than they were when it was legal. Mix that with the fact that the government wasn't seeing a dime of profit and it's not hard to see why it was ended.

In the past, in the U.S, using hemp for many things was fine, until it was seen as an "evil plant", making it look that it had no use whatsoever such as opium.

We did alot of stupid shit in the past.

Slavery...
Prohibition...
Segregation...
The 1960's...

You're mainly talking about the dry form of cannabis, which is used as a drug. However, alcohol isn't hard to make, and growing cannabis isn't as easy to grow, why do you think the "guy" that grows and sells it in his basement can't get as much as the ones that smuggled it in.

Hey, hey...you know what else isn't hard? Quantum mechanics. I also find brain surgery quite relaxing on my time off. The same with contemplating string theory. Prove me wrong.

And yes, I am just talking about smokable weed, but do you know why? It's because we already have a source of paper, rope, and fuel. The only thing people would care about is smoking themselves retarded.

I have no idea why you're talking about the government. Companies are the ones whom own the breweries and others that own the land.

Who gets the taxes off of the sales from alcohol? Your friendly neighborhood urologist?
Besides, the government has to be the one to decide whether or not it gets legalized. Who do you think does all of that?

Some states are already pushing for industrial hemp, I think Oregon is the only state that currently has licensed industrial hemp.

You want me to just accept that as truth without questioning it or are you going to provide a source?

Actually if they legalize it, a big company, most likely a tobacco one, would mass produce it like tobacco and there'll be no point for others to illegally sell it. It's believed that it'll help out the economy a little for the taxation.

You're assuming that just because people smoke weed AND tobacco that the tobacco company would be able to just keep it under control. I can tell you have a very limited understanding of what constitutes as "easy". Growing weed is "easy." It's extremely basic gardening. I had a friend who used to sell weed out of his basement and he'd go on and on about how once he made the switch from buying off of dealers to growing his own, he had so much leftover money from being able to sell the supply he doesn't smoke. It's because all you need is a dozen seeds and you have a mini amazon jungle. As for tobacco, there needs to be a process. Smoking tobacco right off of the plant would scrape the Calcium right off of your teeth (or feel like it anyway). It needs a process to make it more mild for human consumption. Meanwhile, you set a marijuana leaf on fire and you're golden.

So I'll say this again...all it takes is one guy selling weed out of his basement for a dollar less than the companies are doing it, and he'd be able to bankrupt any legal marijuana dealer. They wouldn't even have to worry about obtaining seeds since people grow weed today. All they'd have to do is go about their normal business.

[Gati]

Hey, hey...you know what else isn't hard? Quantum mechanics. I also find brain surgery quite relaxing on my time off. The same with contemplating string theory. Prove me wrong.

And yes, I am just talking about smokable weed, but do you know why? It's because we already have a source of paper, rope, and fuel. The only thing people would care about is smoking themselves retarded.

You can not compare those subjects to something that a anyone can do.

And those same sources are fucking our environment.

Who gets the taxes off of the sales from alcohol? Your friendly neighborhood urologist?
Besides, the government has to be the one to decide whether or not it gets legalized. Who do you think does all of that?

The companies that don't want it to be legalize, keep in mind that many companies influence both the public and bills that get or don't get passed.

You want me to just accept that as truth without questioning it or are you going to provide a source?

Oregon

So I'll say this again...all it takes is one guy selling weed out of his basement for a dollar less than the companies are doing it, and he'd be able to bankrupt any legal marijuana dealer. They wouldn't even have to worry about obtaining seeds since people grow weed today. All they'd have to do is go about their normal business.

I don't think so..

[Reyo]

Hey, hey...you know what else isn't hard? Quantum mechanics. I also find brain surgery quite relaxing on my time off. The same with contemplating string theory. Prove me wrong.

And yes, I am just talking about smokable weed, but do you know why? It's because we already have a source of paper, rope, and fuel. The only thing people would care about is smoking themselves retarded.

You can not compare those subjects to something that a anyone can do.

And those same sources are fucking our environment.

I was being satirical over you saying "it's not hard to make alcohol". I'm willing to bet that you'd have to google how to make alcohol, and even then you wouldn't have 90% of what's needed to make said alcohol.

And I'm curious over how rope is fucking up our environment where changing it to hemp would do the exact opposite.
(HINT: Make sure to post sources to provide yourself with a better case.)

Who gets the taxes off of the sales from alcohol? Your friendly neighborhood urologist?
Besides, the government has to be the one to decide whether or not it gets legalized. Who do you think does all of that?

The companies that don't want it to be legalize, keep in mind that many companies influence both the public and bills that get or don't get passed.

If by companies you mean government, then yes.

You want me to just accept that as truth without questioning it or are you going to provide a source?

Oregon

That's a link, what am I to do with a link?
Proper sourcing etiquite is that you provide the link, and then an excerpt from the link proving your case.

So I'll say this again...all it takes is one guy selling weed out of his basement for a dollar less than the companies are doing it, and he'd be able to bankrupt any legal marijuana dealer. They wouldn't even have to worry about obtaining seeds since people grow weed today. All they'd have to do is go about their normal business.

I don't think so..

You wanna elaborate on that literary masterpeice?

[Lord Raven]

can someone please sum up what reyo's arguing



also i think all drugs should be legalized and the republicans should stop bitching about the deficit if we're going to keep fighting a pointless drug war that's supposedly "destroying" stuff that could easily prove profitable to our economy. and those profits can actually, you know, start to circulate.

[Reyo]

can someone please sum up what reyo's arguing



also i think all drugs should be legalized and the republicans should stop bitching about the deficit if we're going to keep fighting a pointless drug war that's supposedly "destroying" stuff that could easily prove profitable to our economy. and those profits can actually, you know, start to circulate.

TL;DR The govmentsa big greedy poopy pants and won't legalize it cuz there aint no money to be made...man >:(

As for what I'm arguing, I don't particularly give a shit whether marijuana's legalized or not. Gati asked why it isn't legal while things like alcohol and tobacco are, and I answered.

[Lord Raven]

oh thats logical, then. carry on

i think marijuana has a legitimate shot at legalization, though

[Gati]

When did I asked that, Reyo?
I made this topic to talk about why it should stay illegal.
And you have not replied on that matter.

I won't respond to anything you replied because this has gotten way off topic as is.. and a waste..

[Reyo]

To answer your question, here:

Plus, it has been proven that it is less harmful than tobacco and alcohol.

I can tell when someone indirectly states something so they can come back later and say "Well I didn't LITERALLY say that" and if there's something that gets me in reference to the legalization of weed, it's when someone tries to use the fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal to make it seem like weed needs to be the same. Yes, alcohol and tobacco are more harmful than weed, but there are also REASONS that they are legal while marijuana is not. I thought you'd want to know those reasons so you could better understand the facts of this discussion, but I guess not.

And fyi, when someone says "I won't respond to anything you replied" for any reason whatsoever, I take it as a sign that the person no longer has a point worth making.

[Gati]

I do understand and know about the issue of the three.

And I didn't replied because I don't think you actually took the time to read my replied so why should I bother answering.

You want me to just accept that as truth without questioning it or are you going to provide a source?

Oregon

That's a link, what am I to do with a link?
Proper sourcing etiquite is that you provide the link, and then an excerpt from the link proving your case.

That's the actual bill, what other source do you need?

[Reyo]

I do understand and know about the issue of the three.

And I didn't replied because I don't think you actually took the time to read my replied so why should I bother answering.

And fyi, when someone says "I won't respond to anything you replied" for any reason whatsoever, I take it as a sign that the person no longer has a point worth making.

You want me to just accept that as truth without questioning it or are you going to provide a source?

Oregon

That's a link, what am I to do with a link?
Proper sourcing etiquite is that you provide the link, and then an excerpt from the link proving your case.

That's the actual bill, what other source do you need?

I didn't want another source, I wanted you to quote something from the bill that proves your statement.

[Gati]

If you want me respond I will.

I think the bill is pretty straightforward, that's why I didn't quote it.

You wanna keep going around in circles or do have anything as of why it should stay illegal.

[Reyo]

If you want me respond I will.

I think the bill is pretty straightforward, that's why I didn't quote it.

You wanna keep going around in circles or do have anything as of why it should stay illegal.

I'm willing to go as long as it takes untill you prove to me that you've actually read the bill yourself, and that you're not just another stoner hoping to get pot legalized just so you can sit in your momma's basement and smoke all day under the reasoning that you care about things like "the economy" or "cancer patients."

I've been in enough of these discussions to know that 9 times out of 10, the guy advocating for medicinal marijuana doesn't even know what makes it medicinal.

[Gati]

ah, good one.
I personally hate people who want to make it legal but they cannot be taken seriously because they only smoke it and don't know the background.
One of the main reasons that interested me to make it legal again was paper.

And I'm curious over how rope is fucking up our environment where changing it to hemp would do the exact opposite.
(HINT: Make sure to post sources to provide yourself with a better case.)

I'm not just talking about rope, I'm talking about paper and other material.
In 1916, Lyster H. Dewe and Jason L. Merrill from the US Department of Agriculture, concluded that paper made from hemp pulp was favorable over wood pulp.
Although today is more expensive due to the lack of crops.

If by companies you mean government, then yes.

No, by companies I mean companies.

You wanna elaborate on that literary masterpeice?

Simple, bottled water was ridiculed, people still buy a one dollar water instead of 1 cent water.
I myself think is not a good comparison. However, companies will always find a way (if it ever becomes commercialize) and most people would most likely buy it retail instead of some guy or grow it themselves.

[Reyo]

ah, good one.
I personally hate people who want to make it legal but they cannot be taken seriously because they only smoke it and don't know the background.
One of the main reasons that interested me to make it legal again was paper.

And I'm curious over how rope is fucking up our environment where changing it to hemp would do the exact opposite.
(HINT: Make sure to post sources to provide yourself with a better case.)

I'm not just talking about rope, I'm talking about paper and other material.
In 1916, Lyster H. Dewe and Jason L. Merrill from the US Department of Agriculture, concluded that paper made from hemp pulp was favorable over wood pulp.
Although today is more expensive due to the lack of crops.

So what are you proposing we do about the lack of crops?

If by companies you mean government, then yes.

No, by companies I mean companies.

Then you'd be wrong. When you purchace a beer at a bar, there's a certain percentage you pay the bar that acts just like normal tax. Even if you buy alcohol from a liquor store, you pay a certain percentage of tax to the store. Those bars/liquor stores then pay that tax to the government. It's the same thing with purchasing a candy bar, except I believe that the sales tax on alcohol is a certain percent higher than the normal tax set out in each state.

As for tobacco, I'm not sure how that works. Then again, there hasn't been a prohibition on cigarettes. Even then, I'm sure that the companies selling the tobacco still have to pay a certain percent to the federal government in taxes.

You wanna elaborate on that literary masterpeice?

Simple, bottled water was ridiculed, people still buy a one dollar water instead of 1 cent water.
I myself think is not a good comparison. However, companies will always find a way (if it ever becomes commercialize) and most people would most likely buy it retail instead of some guy or grow it themselves.

Except that people don't usually sell tap water out of their house. Meanwhile, people buy weed out of the basements of their suppliers every day.

[Gati]

The lack of crops is because its illegal.

Don't you think I know already?
I very well know that it's about a .40 - 2.50 dollars a pack, and about .06 - 1.00 dollar a gallon (depends on the state). That's on the product, however. Not the companies themselves, that's why they keep making millions of it.

That's why I said that I didn't think it was a good comparison.
I think about it like selling movies. companies are still making millions because people keep buying them retail instead of downloading it themselves or buying it from a guy who sells it on his truck for $5, even though the DVD has the same thing on it (when its a direct copy that is).

Edit: Why it should stay illegal, its still ???

This post has been edited by Gati: Mar 23 2010, 06:23 PM

[Reyo]

The lack of crops is because its illegal.

Don't you think I know already?
I very well know that it's about a .40 - 2.50 dollars a pack, and about .06 - 1.00 dollar a gallon (depends on the state). That's on the product, however. Not the companies themselves, that's why they keep making millions of it.

......I asked what you propse we do about it.

That's why I said that I didn't think it was a good comparison.
I think about it like selling movies. companies are still making millions because people keep buying them retail instead of downloading it themselves or buying it from a guy who sells it on his truck for $5, even though the DVD has the same thing on it (when its a direct copy that is).

That's assuming people only go to the movies to see the physical movie. I go to the movies with friends because we get to bullshit in the arcade beforehand and eat at Dennys afterwards (if any of this sounds familiar......sup...). The point I'm trying to make is that all people would have to do is continue buying from their suppliers like normal. There wasn't a time where you had to sneak a movie at a friend's basement because the cops could arrest you for it. Yes, people would start buying from formal smoke shops, but then they'd go back to their normal suppliers once they realize that they could get it a couple bucks cheaper that way.

Edit: Why it should stay illegal, its still ???

The best I could come up with is that the government wouldn't be able to make as much money as people think it would.

[Gati]

About what? If its the lack of crops, people who'll be interested on it would simply invest on industrial hemp. And I think it could be a very successful investment by saying that its eco-friendly and all that trendy shit.

Well, I think that's a personal opinion. Because people don't smoke it as much as everyone thinks.
And in my opinion, I do think much more people would buy it retail.

The government can make money of it.. not that much, but as much as tobacco.