[X] My Assistant

[ZeroVX]

Please pay very close attention to what I'm about to say:

This thread is not about whether animal abuse is right or wrong. I think anyone reading this thread can agree that animal abuse is as wrong as child abuse, spouse abuse, or whatever.

No, this thread is more about what could be defined as animal abuse.

Now, obviously, hitting, kicking, slapping, throwing, dragging, or maiming an animal is abusive, so we'll just move that out of the way.

Declawing we'll leave out as there's already a thread for that.

Dressing up your pets: This is a fairly weak form of abuse, as some would argue that it's not actually hurting the animal. Well, think about it. What if that ribbon you thought would look cute on your turtle is tied on its neck a little too tight? And pets do not need clothes, if you ask me. Least of all those with fur. Just imagine wearing about four layers of clothing, then going outside for an animal show on a hot summer's day. Now try and tell me that isn't abusing the pet.

Collars/leashes: Some could argue that these shouldn't be used as it puts strain on the pet's neck and could lead to choking. Well, in some cases, maybe, but only if the owner doesn't know how to tie the collar on. Having said that, I have worked at the SPCA before, and I can say that they know how to do it properly, and would probably show a new owner how if they asked. So, the way I see it, if you're taking an animal outside, put a collar and leash on it, as it could get away into the street, meet a car, and....well, you know. If it's not going outside, don't bother.

Feeding certain foods: This is typical with dogs being fed table scraps. Folks, you need to remember that dogs are carnivores. That means their bodies are designed so that they can only eat meat. Raw, uncooked, unflavoured, untoppinged meat. If you want to give your dog a nice raw t-bone steak that you bought from the supermarket just for him, I don't see a problem, but make sure there are no extra seasonings or anything that could harm it. A cooked vegetable? No. Never. That is the exact opposite of what it should be fed. This can also apply to cats, as they are carnivores too. The only time a dog or cat would eat a vegetable would be if it was to throw up something they shouldn't have eaten. And never, EVER, feed any of your pets chocolate. Chocolate is deadly to both cats and dogs, and shouldn't go anywhere near it. If you have a pet raccoon though, go crazy.

(Also, I'd just like to dispel the myth that cats like to drink milk. This is not true, as I've tried this with my cat and he usually didn't seem interested. I later found out that milk can actually be very fattening to adult cats. So, don't believe the cartoons, kids!)

Spaying/neutering: This'll be a big one, I'm sure. I mean, how can you get much crueler than removing a pet's genetalia? Well, that's thinking in the short term. The short term being that your pet will whine and try to scratch at said area. The long term being that it prevents your pet from running out and creating baby animals, who will probably be abandoned or killed. And do you really want to be responsible for kitten/puppy deaths? Regardless, there are those who refuse to spay or neuter their pets, which brings me to my last area that I can think of...

Sexually pleasing your pets: I swear to God above, there are people out there who believe they should do this to their unspayed/unneutered pets, so they don't have the energy to run out and create more animals. This is, in my opinion, the highest form of abuse you could do to your pet, equating with raping a person. This is proof that there are people who truly believe they are above all other creatures on Earth, and know what's best for everything else. I'm sorry, but jerking off your dog is wrong, wrong, WRONG. Your dog does not need to have a "release". You just think he does. Your dog can get by without having sex. Anyone can. You might be a little short-tempered, but it's possible. Likewise for animals. That's why unneutered males can be so aggressive, because they haven't mated and want to. Granted, it's biologically programed in our minds to mate and create the next generation, but we aren't so consumed by it that we jump the first member of the opposite sex that we see. This leads back to my argument in the spaying/neutering part. You don't want to create more animals that will probably end up being killed. So, rather that "pleasing" your pet, or locking them in the backyard(which could also be abusive if you think about it), just do what Bob Barker said and spay/neuter them. The doctors are not there to make it incredibly painful, they know what they're doing.

Well, your thoughts?

Edit: Added part about pets and grass. I forgot that they sometimes do that.

This post has been edited by ZeroVX: Jul 15 2009, 03:59 PM

[Crystal Shards]

Feeding certain foods: This is typical with dogs being fed table scraps. Folks, you need to remember that dogs are carnivores. That means their bodies are designed so that they can only eat meat. Raw, uncooked, unflavoured, untoppinged meat. If you want to give your dog a nice raw t-bone steak that you bought from the supermarket just for him, I don't see a problem, but make sure there are no extra seasonings or anything that could harm it. A cooked vegetable? No. Never. That is the exact opposite of what it should be fed. This can also apply to cats, as they are carnivores too. And never, EVER, feed any of your pets chocolate. Chocolate is deadly to both cats and dogs, and shouldn't go anywhere near it. If you have a pet raccoon though, go crazy.

(Also, I'd just like to dispel the myth that cats like to drink milk. This is not true, as I've tried this with my cat and he usually didn't seem interested. I later found out that milk can actually be very fattening to adult cats. So, don't believe the cartoons, kids!)

I'm sorry but this isn't even true. My grandma lives on a farm and has 15-20 cats at any given period and they eat all kinds of meat and are still alive. And the cat that lives indoors will only beg for milk-based products. She loves milk and ice cream, and is perfectly healthy. Also even dogs will eat grass; giving an animal vegetables on occasion isn't going to kill them. The cats on the farm eat vegetables from time to time too.

Anyway I think dressing up your pets is animal abuse, though not so much on the leash/collar thing. I don't really see anything wrong with spaying/neutering except for the fact that they don't have a choice in it, but it's not like you can really ask an animal its opinion. Sexually pleasing your animal is a bit weird. I had a friend who would do it when her cat got too riled up when it was in heat (which apparently is a common practice, but it's not for me), but that's about it.

[Icykat]

Dressing up your pets:
Yes, I do believe it's abuse, but only under certain circumstances. If a dog or cat has fur to keep itself warm, then extra clothing isn't neccesary, and may be harmful. putting a 'cute' doggie shirt on a saint bernard in scorching heat outside is abuse. But fitting a sweater onto a hairless pet in winter may be beneficial to it's health. It all depends on the situation. I'd rather spend my money on toys for my pet, rather than clothes. It's pointless to give my dog or cats fasion senses, seeing as they could care less.

Collars/leashes: I dont care what anyone says. Collars ARE NOT abuse. neither are leashes. To leash a WILD animal, like a wolf or tiger, IS abuse, because they are not familiar to confinement. But dogs and cats are domesticated, and since birth they naturally follow. leashes and collars are guides to protect the animal from wandering into trouble and harm. Without a leash/collar, my dog would most certainly run into traffic on walks.

Feeding certain foods: "Folks, you need to remember that dogs are carnivores. That means their bodies are designed so that they can only eat meat." I do not agree with this. While dogs and cats ARE carnivores, they do eat grasses, and dogs love to eat carrots and other vegetables aswell. My cats love milk and cheese, and as long as it's in moderation (Just tiny bits as treats), it shouldnt be harmful to their health. I do agree that letting your pet eat nothing but human food is a bad idea. An animals diet should be as natural as possible, but claiming that animals should eat nothing but meat is preposterous. After all, pet food is composed of more than just raw meat, isn't it?

Spaying/neutering: Fixing your pet is not abuse. Not only does it save you financial trouble in the long run (Babies, expenses, etc), but it can also help rid your pets of future illnesses. I know that spaying a female cat helps prevent urinary infections. Not to mention it prevents unwanted animals both living and dying in pounds.

Sexually pleasing your pets: ...That's just nasty. Is there anything else to say? Other animals are incapable of feeling real "love" towards humans, so technically, you'd be raping your pet. Grosssss.

There are my two cents on these topics.

[Naeusu]

Dressing up your pets:

It isn't abuse when the pet cannot create enough heat on it's own to stay healthy. Certain breeds of dogs and incredibly short haired cats almost need to wear a sweater or some other type of clothing most of the year if they live in a colder climate then what they were breed for. Also, if you do put bows or ribbons in your pet's fur then it shouldn't bother them at all. The only thing i would consider abuse in a ribbon case is if it's put on improperly and either endangers the animal's life or could possibly cause skin irritation if put on incorrectly.

Collars/leashes:

Collars are an essential part of a small house pets life (and by that i mean the kind that are furry and run around like cats, dogs, ferrets, w/e, that isn't caged). Collars carry important information such as ID, Rabies info, and rescue information in case something bad should happen like a door being left open or a house being broken into resulting in the pets leaving the home. An animal that is unused to wearing a collar is much more likely to try to remove it and harm them self. As long as the collar is neither too loose nor too tight there is no reason for a pet stated above not to wear a collar. (i have 3 indoor cats and dogs and all wear collars no matter what)

Feeding certain foods:

As for dogs, they are OMNIVOROUS. The majority of their diet should consist of meat but they do eat fruit and vegetables if found in the wild. Feeding your dog fresh, raw, fruits and vegetables is VERY healthy (especially carrots and apples) because they can help give your pet nutrients that most crappy dog food doesn't give either any or enough off. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU FEED YOUR DOG BECAUSE THEY CAN BE ALLERGIC TO THE FOOD YOU'RE GIVING TO THEM (MOST CORN OR WHEAT GLUTEN PRODUCTS), OR THE FOOD CAN BE TOXIC, (LIKE AVOCADOS). Buy a nutrition book or use the wonderful internets to find out exactly what is good and what isn't. Most low end dog food is made almost entirely of corn and wheat products which most dogs can't digest. If you feed your dog alpo or old jack (which you can buy a 50lb bag for 12 dollars), watch how much he poops, it's because he can't digest the main corn ingredient.

As for cats, they require a high protein, high meat diet because that's what they would eat in the wild and is only what they can naturally digest. There is no supplementation you can give a cat to remove meat from their diet. However, that does not stop food companies from putting corn in your cat's food. MOST CATS ARE LACTOSE INTOLERANT. JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK THE CAT DOESN'T GET SICK, DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE RIGHT.

Spaying/neutering:

Spaying/neutering when done at the right time will prevent certain health issues and unwanted litters. If done early enough in the life of the pet, they never even seem to notice or gain a "sex drive". I do not think that spaying/neutering is necessary all the time because a responsible owner should be able to prevent unwanted pregnancy or breeding of their pet by taking certain measures. If you do not want to "fix" your pet or breed them, then simply house them where they cannot get to or have another animal get to them while they are "in season" for females. As for males, make sure your fence is secure or make them a house pet and walk on leash only.

Sexually pleasing your pets:

Bestiality is horrendous and should NEVER be encouraged.

This post has been edited by Naeusu: Jul 16 2009, 02:11 PM

[Chemical Hound]

i used to have a dog and it ate grass when it felt sick - it seemed to help

[Naeusu]

i used to have a dog and it ate grass when it felt sick - it seemed to help

Dogs and cats in general eat plain grass when they have an upset stomach... i've heard that it either helps to calm their stomach or helps them to throw up whatever is upsetting them... but grass isn't very nutritional at all....

[Swordsalmon]

Dressing up your pets: This is a fairly weak form of abuse, as some would argue that it's not actually hurting the animal. Well, think about it. What if that ribbon you thought would look cute on your turtle is tied on its neck a little too tight? And pets do not need clothes, if you ask me. Least of all those with fur. Just imagine wearing about four layers of clothing, then going outside for an animal show on a hot summer's day. Now try and tell me that isn't abusing the pet.

Except that in many cases (Especially with small dogs), clothing is necessary in cold weather. Now, unnecessary clothing can be detrimental and painful if not worn correctly, so tight clothing can sometimes be painful to an animal.

Collars/leashes: Some could argue that these shouldn't be used as it puts strain on the pet's neck and could lead to choking. Well, in some cases, maybe, but only if the owner doesn't know how to tie the collar on. Having said that, I have worked at the SPCA before, and I can say that they know how to do it properly, and would probably show a new owner how if they asked. So, the way I see it, if you're taking an animal outside, put a collar and leash on it, as it could get away into the street, meet a car, and....well, you know. If it's not going outside, don't bother.

Again, it does depend on the collar. Slip-knot varities are difficult to use properly and are as such, starting to be banned. However, collars and leashes as a whole aren't abusive, as long as the owner isn't putting strain on the pet. That's why body-collars work so wonderfully; they aren't attached to the neck and work much better.

Feeding certain foods: This is typical with dogs being fed table scraps. Folks, you need to remember that dogs are carnivores. That means their bodies are designed so that they can only eat meat. Raw, uncooked, unflavoured, untoppinged meat. If you want to give your dog a nice raw t-bone steak that you bought from the supermarket just for him, I don't see a problem, but make sure there are no extra seasonings or anything that could harm it. A cooked vegetable? No. Never. That is the exact opposite of what it should be fed. This can also apply to cats, as they are carnivores too. The only time a dog or cat would eat a vegetable would be if it was to throw up something they shouldn't have eaten. And never, EVER, feed any of your pets chocolate. Chocolate is deadly to both cats and dogs, and shouldn't go anywhere near it. If you have a pet raccoon though, go crazy.

(Also, I'd just like to dispel the myth that cats like to drink milk. This is not true, as I've tried this with my cat and he usually didn't seem interested. I later found out that milk can actually be very fattening to adult cats. So, don't believe the cartoons, kids!)

Bolded is absolutely false. Dogs, like wolves, are omnivores. Wild wolves and dogs eat vegetable matter commonly, and domesticated dogs can also eat many types of vegetable matter. On the contrary, pet dogs shouldn't be fed raw meat, as the bacteria can make the dog sick. There are special diets for dogs, some that do try the raw meat path, though these are generally done with enormous care. Cats however, are purely carniverous.

Though agreed with some food. Chocolate can be consumed by dogs, but only in extremely tiny amounts, but will likely make them sick. Vanilla is actually much more dangerous than chocolate to a dog.

Spaying/neutering: This'll be a big one, I'm sure. I mean, how can you get much crueler than removing a pet's genetalia? Well, that's thinking in the short term. The short term being that your pet will whine and try to scratch at said area. The long term being that it prevents your pet from running out and creating baby animals, who will probably be abandoned or killed. And do you really want to be responsible for kitten/puppy deaths? Regardless, there are those who refuse to spay or neuter their pets, which brings me to my last area that I can think of...

Spaying and neutering should be mandatory for nearly all pet owners. Simply not is both dangerous to other people and is extremely abusive to other animals. Look at PETA, for example. Rather ironic that they are against spaying/neutering, then go ahead and murder countless 'rescued' pets because they don't have the funding, instead of simply spaying/neutering the parent animals in the first place.

Also, spayed and neutered dogs actually have medical improvements. Male neutered dogs are far less agressive, while both genders have less chance of disease (With the exception of some cancers).

[Usagi Zakura]

Dressing up your pets:

This is just stupid. For the most part it serves no purpose and just causes discomfort or annoyance in the pet.
If you have a hairless or especially short-haired animal I can see why a body-suit would be useful, but a longhaired chihuahua does not need to wear a pink dress on a hot summer day
(On the topic of chihuahuas: they are dogs, with feet. They can walk themselves stop putting them in purses.)

Collars/leashes:

Our dog has always used a collar (though its sometimes taken off at night) we can't very well put him in the garden wearing a harness... I've heard of free-roaming cats getting the collar stuck in random things though, in such cases a quick-release collar could be useful, so that if the cat gets into trouble by getting the collar stuck on something it will fall of and the cat walks away unharmed. For identification they can be tattooed or microchiped.

Feeding certain foods:

I agree with the above. Dogs are omnivores (though they lean mostly towards carnivores) and I somehow doubt cooked food is any dangerous.

I have an issue with rodent-food however. There's plenty of brands on the market that are advertised for all rodents and rabbits (Rabbits ate NOT rodents) but consider this:
Rabbits, guinea pigs and chinchillas are vegetarians. By nature they live on plants; leaves and grass. Also chinchillas and degu have a very delicate immune system, some of these "rodent-mixes" can in fact kill them!
Hamsters, mice and rats are omnivores, and eat mostly seeds, insects or even scraps of meat if they can find it (I feed my hamsters dog and cat food sometimes.. seriously!)
So HOW can all these species get a perfect food intake by eating the same brand?
They can't. They need food designed for THEIR SPECIES.
There's no shared food for dogs and cats and the difference between rodents (and rabbits) can be just as wide in terms of diet, even if they are related. You might as well start feeding your child leaves and fruits, chimps do it, and since they share much of our DNA SURELY it must be good for us too?

Spaying/neutering:

This is a case I burn for.
In Norway its very common to let cats roam freely. If these aren't neutered they can and will breed with every cat that comes by (even if they are relatives or animals that carry genetic diseases). Still some of them keep popping out kittens and every so often their owners will complain at this, put the kittens to sleep or sell them FAR too early (a cat should be at least 12 weeks before rehoming, but many of them are sold at 8 sometimes even sooner which leads to insecure and maladapted cats)
There's already way too many cats around, and I think its much kinder to have them neutered than to kill innocent kittens!
I don't have cats personally, but I have rabbits. Some of them are purebreds and I sometimes breed them, but I also have two mixbreds I keep as pets. The first rabbit I had suffered from extreme aggression, I had her neutered because 1. I hoped it would calm her down and 2. I didn't want her to have offspring as she would most likely pass it on to her offspring (trust me it happens, Her siblings were the same). After neutering she was much calmer:3 Later I wanted to get her a friend, so I adopted my neighbor's rabbit, had him neutered and put them together. They're a happy couple now:3
For rabbits its also a health reason to have them neutered: Neutered does don't get uterine cancer, which is common in elder female rabbits.
Rabbits are also social animals, but un-neutered rabbits have a tendency to fight. Its easier to keep them together if they are neutered.


Sexually pleasing your pets:

No...just no.

[Naeusu]

Dressing up your pets:
(On the topic of chihuahuas: they are dogs, with feet. They can walk themselves stop putting them in purses.)

Collars/leashes:

For identification they can be tattooed or microchiped.

Feeding certain foods:

I agree with the above. Dogs are omnivores (though they lean mostly towards carnivores) and I somehow doubt cooked food is any dangerous.

I have an issue with rodent-food however. There's plenty of brands on the market that are advertised for all rodents and rabbits (Rabbits ate NOT rodents) but consider this:
Rabbits, guinea pigs and chinchillas are vegetarians. By nature they live on plants; leaves and grass. Also chinchillas and degu have a very delicate immune system, some of these "rodent-mixes" can in fact kill them!
Hamsters, mice and rats are omnivores, and eat mostly seeds, insects or even scraps of meat if they can find it (I feed my hamsters dog and cat food sometimes.. seriously!)
So HOW can all these species get a perfect food intake by eating the same brand?
They can't. They need food designed for THEIR SPECIES.
There's no shared food for dogs and cats and the difference between rodents (and rabbits) can be just as wide in terms of diet, even if they are related. You might as well start feeding your child leaves and fruits, chimps do it, and since they share much of our DNA SURELY it must be good for us too?

lol @ the chihuahua statement. I have a chihuahua and it has never, and will never be put in a dress or in my purse. A lot of people stop thinking of their pets as ANIMALS, and start thinking of them as HUMAN BEINGS. When you treat your pet in that way, it can lead to negligence and being a bad pet owner which is almost as bad as straight animal abuse. Overfeeding your dog so that it weighs 50lbs when it's only supposed to weigh 20 doesn't look as bad as someone beating their pet but is just as harmful and deadly.

@ the collar issue, some people think tattooing is another form of animal abuse and some can't afford microchiping (tho it is a lot more effective). Collars are cheap and easy to use/get and there are special cat collars that will break away if they get caught. (I accidentally bought a break away collar for said chihuahua, took her on a walk, and ended up as a game of tag the running dog)...

@the special food--> Some people can't afford the proper food and saying just because you can't afford the proper food you shouldn't have pets is the same as saying just because you can't feed your kids the best food means you can't have children. You SHOULD ALWAYS buy the best you can get, even if it's not top brand. The better and more designed for your pet, the healthier and happier your pet will be and will benefit from a much longer life.

[King Calamity]

Also even dogs will eat grass; giving an animal vegetables on occasion isn't going to kill them. The cats on the farm eat vegetables from time to time too.

dogs eat grass when they wanna throw up something thats bothering their stomach.



dressing up pets: not really for it, but as long as the pet doesnt try to rip the clothes off then they must like it. i guess it would be the animals personality thats a factor there.

Collars/leashes: collars and leashes are for the protection of the dogs and the other people around when they are being walked. some dogs do have a tendency to run out in the middle of the road, posssibly in front of a car, when they see something across the street.

Feeding certain foods: this is ok every once in a long, long while. the main reason its bad is because it teaches them to beg.

Spaying/neutering: this unfortunately is nessessary for alot of animals right now because people are out there breeding FAR too many dogs to sell when theres not enough people to take them in right now. animal overpopulation is a HUGE problem right now so for the time being, you should DEFINATELY get your pets neutered.

Sexually pleasing your pets: i honestly didnt know people had the stomach to do that to their own dogs. thats pretty sick.

[SilverTheFox]

Dressing up your pets: This is a fairly weak form of abuse, as some would argue that it's not actually hurting the animal. Well, think about it. What if that ribbon you thought would look cute on your turtle is tied on its neck a little too tight? And pets do not need clothes, if you ask me. Least of all those with fur. Just imagine wearing about four layers of clothing, then going outside for an animal show on a hot summer's day. Now try and tell me that isn't abusing the pet.

I recently received a young chihuahua with very short belly fur, to the point where its mostly skin. We have to put clothes on hime when we take him outside because he gets cold really easily. Its for the well-being of the dog.


Now, at the same time, dressing them up in little hats and such are pointless in my opinion, as I see no way that it benefits the dog.

[Queen of Ice]

Time for some radical views people. I anticipate that you will want to have my head after this post. All of these 'statements' are my opinions.

Dressing up your pets: Depends. Sending a dog out in the summer with a fleece doggy sweater on I would qualify as abusive. Putting a doggy sweater on a maltese in the winter during a walk, however, I would not. It depends.

Collars/leashes: Collars and ID tags help bring home lost animals if they ever get out. It's not animal abuse, so long as the collar is fashioned correctly. Leashes are just a length of rope to keep an animal near you during a walk. Not animal abuse. Choke chains are a different story. Yes, that's animal abuse.

Feeding certain foods: In most cases I would say it's not animal abuse. Some cat and dog food has ingredients that are bad for the animal, yet we don't holler at them (for the most part) about it being abusive. Chocolate and other items that are proven to be deadly are another story.

Regarding cats and milk, you are very misguided, TC. Some cats don't like milk, but some do. It's all about personality and personal taste. Whole milk can give cats diarrhea, but low fat milk can be fed to them safely. My cat Becky loves milk.

Spaying/neutering: I don't like the idea of it in most cases, but it has benefits. It prevents many forms of cancer, and it prevents unneccessary reproduction. I believe, however, if an animal is strictly indoors it should not be spayed or nuetered. The only exception is in cats, because they yowl and they are actually uncomfortable during heat.

Sexually pleasing your pets: I completely and wholeheartedly support beastiality. However, I only agree with it if the animal is clearly interested in the behavior. When I was a child I was pushed down by a large dog. It attempted to make with me. I didn't initiate this. It did it of its own accord. That alone is proof that simply having sex with an animal is abusive. To me, there is a clear line between an animal initiating such contact and a human going along and forcing an animal to do something sexually. Some of them are not into it, and this should be respected. In those cases, and ONLY those cases, I disapprove.

Someone mentioned that 'sexually pleasing' a cat in heat is a common practice. It is, and I encourage it. The reason? The cat is in heat because its body wants to mate. It is uncomfortable. By artificially mating it, its symptoms and side effects of being in heat temporarily decline. This means less urinating outside the box, less yowling, and peace of mind for the owner and cat. I have done it to both my cats when they went into heat the week or so before I had them spayed. In both cases, the 'procedure' worked. My cats were happier and so was I.

This post has been edited by Icedevimon: Jul 21 2009, 06:30 PM

[ZeroVX]

@Icedevimon: I read the last part of your post, and you seemed to have a valid reason for doing what you do, up until I saw that you spayed your cats after you did it....

So, why did you do it, if you were just going to spay them?

OK, cats get uncomfortable during heat, but not to such a degree that they are in physical pain, right? And it does get stinky around the house when they tend to pee around it, but when you chose not to spay/neuter them, you had to have known that would happen.

And in regards to the dog story, how do you know it wanted to mate? How do you know it didn't want to just play? Dogs are considered to be very playful creatures, so there's a more likely explanation.

[Reyo]

@Icedevimon: I read the last part of your post, and you seemed to have a valid reason for doing what you do, up until I saw that you spayed your cats after you did it....

So, why did you do it, if you were just going to spay them?

OK, cats get uncomfortable during heat, but not to such a degree that they are in physical pain, right? And it does get stinky around the house when they tend to pee around it, but when you chose not to spay/neuter them, you had to have known that would happen.

And in regards to the dog story, how do you know it wanted to mate? How do you know it didn't want to just play? Dogs are considered to be very playful creatures, so there's a more likely explanation.

I'm sure there's a very thick line between playing and mating. When a dog runs around in circles near the door, it wants to play. When he'sk nocking you over and humping your leg, it's safe to say that he wants to make sticky with you.

...all assuming that it's a male dog. Was it a male dog Icedevimon?

This post has been edited by Reyo: Jul 22 2009, 03:18 PM

[Queen of Ice]

Well here's the thing with the cats. I got both my females from the local animal shelter. After we adopted them, we had to go and make an appointment to get them spayed. Unfortunately, this means there was a waiting period, and in both cases it was around a month from the date of adoption. Also in both cases, they went into heat shortly after we brought them home. So it's not that we weren't planning on having them spayed, we just honestly had no choice to wait.

Does being in heat cause them physical pain? That I'm not sure of. I can only go by the research that I've read, and that information says that yes, they are in pain. Whether this research is wrong or not though, I am not in any position to decide. What I do know is that the symptoms of their being in heat drastically declined following the 'artifical mating'.

There is also the issue of me being a college student and needing sleep. Both times the cats got locked up in my room so they wouldn't pee all over the place (except in my room... XD) and it's nearly impossible to sleep with all the yowling and scratching at the door (I don't declaw my cats, so it got noisy )

Yes, the dog was male, and it was definitely trying to mate with me XD It scared the hell out of me when I was younger. He jumped at me and knocked me down, and apparently started to hump me. I couldn't see as I was sort of . . . knocked down. But my Mom, grandma, grandpa, and aunt were all outside there and helped to pull him away. They then had to explain what happened while they were giving me a bath upstairs. It was definitely not just trying to play ^^'

His name was Rocky, and he was a good dog. I wasn't mad at him, just frightened for a while. He'd never done anything like that before then or since, and we'd played a lot when I had visited.

This post has been edited by Icedevimon: Jul 22 2009, 07:37 PM

[Kates]

Dressing up your pets: I think this one is kind of dependent on the kind of dressing up that happens. For example, if you have an older dog who's coat is thinning out and is losing body fat just because they're old and as a result has difficulty maintaining their body temperature during the winter, I'd rather put a doggy sweater on it before sending it outside to do it's business than let it freeze in snow that comes up to it's belly. After they come back, the sweater gets thrown in the dryer, the dogs legs get rubbed down, and he gets to go curl up in a big pile o' blankets.

However, if you're one of those people who insists on dressing your chihuahua in baby clothes, is that really necessary? Sure usually it's not hurting the dog, but on hot summer days it may increase danger of overheating.

Collars/leashes: Collars and leashes should be used as protection for/against your dog. When at home, to keep it from running into the street and being hit, or running into the street to jump on/attack someone. On a walk, for the same reason. Not only that, if you have a light collar with a tag on it at all times, it makes it soo much easier to find your pet if it manages to slip out the door or fence. After all, accidents do happen, and if my dog gets lost, I want someone to call the number on her collar. The collars that are abusive, are the chokechains with the spikes inside. The cruelty in that is pretty self explanatory.

Feeding certain foods: Yes, dogs are carnivores, but there's really no harm in feeding a couple of vegetables or a piece of fruit now and then, as long as it's not something that can harm it. My dog loves carrots and apples, throws a fit if you start cutting either up and you don't give her any. Yes, we do occasionally give table scraps, but it's normally something like rice, which is in almost every dry dog food on the market, or one quarter sized piece of chicken. That's not going to hurt them. The thing about dogs today, is that 90% of them have never had raw meat, it's not as necessary for there systems as it would have been when dogs were in the process of being domesticated.

Spaying/neutering: I think it's cruel not to. First off, isn't it kind of torcherous to have your unfixed dog locked up on one side of the fence and another unfixed dog of the opposite sex on the other side? Then, who wants unwanted puppies? Especially in an economy when people are giving up their animals because tehy can't afford to feed them. Plus, I am strongly against breeding dogs that have recent inbreeding in their blood lines, because this leads to physical problems and increases the tendencies of certain breeds to develop diseases like cancer. So unless you are an approved breeder who only breeds their dogs when supply is low and demand high, get your dogs fixed. please.

Sexually pleasing your pets: Rape. Your dog wants to hump its newest chew toy, fine. But unless your a breeder who need to ship semen for artificial insemination, you don't need to give your dog a hand job. Ew.

[Wonderbread]

I've never thought about bestialists and dogs... That's quite disturbing to think about.

[Naeusu]

NOTE THAT THIS IS ALL DIRECTED AT ICEDEVIMON-->

You have just stated some of the sickest things I have EVER read.

To say that "artificially mating" with your cats to reduce the amount of time they are in heat is a horrid misconception. If you only had the cats one month then you would notice that the cats are only in heat for a week at a time. And as for them being in pain, it would be the same as if you were having a period. The inner lining of your uterus is contracting and sloughing off, of course it's going to hurt. You know how cats release eggs in order to fertilize them? They must mate first in order to stimulate the female's vagina which in turn stimulates her ovaries to pop the eggs out of their protective sacks. BTW, in order for that stimulation to occur, a male cat's penis has a BARB on it. What you did could have irreparably damaged them mentally and emotionally.

As for the dog mounting you when you were little, how does that justify sex with animals? Human beings and animals were not built anatomically or genetically to breed or have sex with each other. Most animals in order to have sex with them have to be tied down or restrained in such a way that they have no choice. In cases in which the animal actually initiates the "act", it's almost 100% of the time MALES who are aren't NEUTERED who would hump a BLANKET as much as a human. I have never met a neutered dog or any other animal that still tries to "mate" with another female of it's own species let alone a human.

Also, just because you can figure out how to do something like have sex with an animal, doesn't make it morally or ethically okay. SOME THINGS JUST AREN'T RIGHT.

edit-->

I also forgot to state that animals that are involved with bestiality (porn movies, w/e) often have to be coaxed or trained to do what they do with humans. How is that their choice? I'm pretty sure that they didn't just go up to their owners and were like hey, let's make career out of having sex with each other for money!

(and in case some of you DIDN'T know, bestiality is still legal in certain states)

This post has been edited by Naeusu: Jul 22 2009, 10:17 PM

[Queen of Ice]

I told you that it was radical

Frankly, I don't care if you think my beliefs are sick. They are my beliefs, and nothing is going to change them

I'm well aware of the anatomy of the female cat. I know, for instance, that in order to become pregnant, a female must mate a few times before the sperm will take. I also know that a male's penis is backwards barbed. I further know that this procedure did indeed help the heat cycle to lessen up. I even further know that my own vet suggested that I 'artificially mate' her in order to curb the symptoms. Are you going to tell me a trained professional is wrong? :P

What I think is that if the kitties were really scarred mentally irreparably, they wouldn't want to be anywhere near me XD Animals aren't stupid. If they are really upset about something, they are aware of what caused it, and do indeed avoid a person. Both my girls love me and are complete sweeties. They were also sticking their . . . er . . . genetalia in my face while they were in heat, and when I did the procedure, they were backing onto the item that I used. I only put it lightly in place ^^' They did the rest.

Where did you read that cats are only in heat for a week? Would you mind telling that to Becky and Shelby ^^' They both stayed in heat for at least a week and a half. Becky lasted up to two, horribly loud weeks.

And of course a neutered dog won't attempt to mate with anything. That's the point of having him neutered .-.

My experience doesn't necessarily 'justify' beastiality, but it is proof that an animal is indeed willing to attempt to initiate sexual contact.

Also, typing all in CAPS doesn't make your writing look very mature sweetie ^^'

Regarding pornography, my friend, that is a different story. I do believe that I said I do not believe in any unwilling contact. If an animal has to be coaxed to perform, it is not willing, and thus, I do not agree with it.

Your argument that "some things just aren't right" is ridiculous. Lots of people believe that homosexuality isn't right, and yet a good portion of our population continues to be gay. Many religious folks believe that other religions are paganistic, and yet they continue to exist. Personal morals and ethics are not valid reasons to condemn an entire activity or lifestyle. Sorry dude!

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure if you all are aware, but I am female. I don't know if this influences anything, but I just wanted to put that out there, lol.

EDIT EDIT: Here are the girls if anyone wants to take a gander at them ^__^

BECKY AND SHELBY
BECKY

Both images are post spaying

This post has been edited by Icedevimon: Jul 22 2009, 11:12 PM

[Princess Serenit...]

You wanna know whats sad. and sick theres actually a pet killer around my area that killed others pets and leaving sick joke signs that says "free pet". Its been going on for a month lucky they found the jerk and hes getting 10 years and my pets are indoor.