[X] My Assistant

[Apocalyptic Chic...]

People who test/abuse or even skin animals make me sick. To me, just because their a bit lower on the 'Evolution-Chain' then us, they don't deserve to be treated like this! If you kick a dog, what does it do? It cries out! If you kick a human, what does it do? It also cries out! In the sense that we all feel, we are the same! For those people who say; "God didn't put dogs or cats in the bible!", think about this. God also says that ALL life is sacred.
It sickens my very core how someone of my own damn specious can do horrible, sick things like test on animals, skin them for fur or even abuse them. Most of the times, people who abuse animals also abuse a spouse, child or someone of their family. In that case, everyone suffers!

I found two good links about Animal Testing and Chinese Fur Farms. They are NOT my websites and in any way I do not claim them as my own. They are simply useful links I found on the internet.

www.marscandykills.com <----- Animal Experimentation

http://www.peta.org/feat/chineseFurFarms/index.asp <----- Chinese Fur Farms

I also heard a few rumors around the internet that the IAMS Dog-Food company funds Animal Testing. Not sure if its true though, but apprently alot of people believe it is.

Please keep in mind that I do not claim these websites as my own. I simply found them on the internet. If asked, I'll take them down. I just felt like I needed to share this important information with people.

(If this sort of discussion topic isn't supposed to be here, I'm sorry. I wasen't sure if I should put it here or int he Ranting topic.)

[Zoreta]

Technically every dog food brand funds animal testing- they test their dog food on dogs, cat food on cats, etc before it goes out to market. Same thing with medications, both human and pet intended.

I support medical animal testing and testing for PET PRODUCTS, but not cosmetic or other industries. Medical animal testing benefits all creatures, human or not (medications, antibiotics, prosthetics, treatments- these help the pets who use these just as much as the people who use them). Pet products is a necessity, as any toy/object that could pose a danger needs to be identified before it gets released to the public.
I do not support cosmetic testing because it has no benefit for the testees, and instead usually causes pain. Human testees are pretty readily available (some people make their incomes being lab subjects). Other industries, while usually not as bad as cosmetics, can usually be done on human subjects rather than other animals.

However, I abhor the Chinese fur farms because of the way they treat their animals- no better than puppy mills.

This post has been edited by Zoreta: Jul 26 2009, 11:12 PM

[Cassowary]

I support medical animal testing and testing for PET PRODUCTS, but not cosmetic or other industries. Medical animal testing benefits all creatures, human or not (medications, antibiotics, prosthetics, treatments- these help the pets who use these just as much as the people who use them). Pet products is a necessity, as any toy/object that could pose a danger needs to be identified before it gets released to the public.
I do not support cosmetic testing because it has no benefit for the testees, and instead usually causes pain. Human testees are pretty readily available (some people make their incomes being lab subjects). Other industries, while usually not as bad as cosmetics, can usually be done on human subjects rather than other animals.

This, to a "T".

I don't know much about Chinese fur farms, but fur farms in general are pretty bad considerin the conditions the animals are kept in.

[Scrooge]

I only support leather as a byproduct of meat. Not using the skin would be a waste, no?
As for the topic at hand, the feel of having the skin of a dead mink around my neck never really sat well with me, you know?

[Cassowary]

Not just leather - of other animals we eat as well.

Rabbit, sheep (duh), and i head they've found a way to make some sort of hydrogen storage system from chicken feathers...

[Linda 3046]

I think animal testing sometimes is necesarry, however I can't say I like it.

As for fur farms, I think its terrible and should be banned whatever it comes from china or any other country. I come from Sweden and we have one of the best animal protection laws in the world but the fur animals are still living in terribly small wire cages were they can barely move.

Some people might say thay that its the same thing with cows. But there are some (IMO) important differences: Cows are herbivores and Minks are pretators, so a while the cow would spend almost its whole day eating the mink would spend it time HUNTING. Also cows have been domisticated for several thousens year while the mink well.. Scientist have very different oppinions whatever the mink is domisticated AT ALL.

[xImpossible]

I don't like animal testing. Leather might be okay, if the animal has died to make food. Fur farms should be banned, as the condition of the animals is way too poor. Animals are used for stupid things, like perfume and other cosmetics. Why don't they just test their own cosmetics on themselves? It's stupid. It's not like the animal would wear the cosmetics, is it? If I had the power, I would put all Animal Abusive people to jail. This would include Fur Farm owners and Animal Testers.

[Sovee]

1) Animal experimentation: Animal tests are very important in the development of science, discovery of cures and such. Its ok to ask for tests in humans but the only safe way to release a new medicament is to first test it in animals (imagine asking someone to try something that was never tested). Actually you can´t test drugs in humans before securing its safety...
I agree that we need to look after alternative tests, but animal experimentation is what we have for now so we need to use it. Or should we ask people who depends desperately on the discovery of a cure for some desease to wait until we find an alternative test? I think it would be too late for them...
I do not consider animal testing as animal abuse.

2) Fur and other stuff you mentioned: this is a more complicated topic because animals suffer for nothing... I mean, I consider fur products a very futile thing because we actually don´t need to use it. If fur was the only thing we could use as a protection from cold It would be ok but we have many other materials to use instead. Most people only use fur because they think its is beautiful (not a good argument in my opinion).
This could be considered animal abuse...

The main problem in this discussion is if we should consider people´s lives more important than other species´ (and I think most people would say that their own lives are more important). But we need to show some respect to the animals. If we are "using" them, so this "use" needs to be justified with a good reason (and I don´t think vanity is a good reason). And if we are keeping them captives so we MUST give them the best possible conditions.
This applies to pets as well, for example, keeping wild animals as pets can make them suffer if they are not adequately treated (in the animal´s point of view, it doesnt matter if they are suffering in a laboratory or in someone´s house) the difference is that in this case the animal "use" is not benefiting anyone (neither the animal nor the human society)...

I have an interesting paper about this topic but unfortunately it is in portuguese (but If someone is interested I can send it anyway) ~_~

(I apologize for possible errors in grammar and such... English is not my main language and I am a bit rusty)

[penguinJAM]

Instead of experimenting on animals, scientists should experiment on convicted criminals. Rapists and murderers should become lab rats. Not only are the tests on humans (in the physical sense) so we know exactly how people will react, but it will also add to the criminals punishment.

[Apocalyptic Chic...]

I agree 100% to that. Why waste a life when one thats already going to be destroyed can be used for the greater good?

[Galahawk]

Very interesting subject. And so, I shall state my opinions...

Animal testing:
Kind of a touchy subject, but I believe that products made specifically for animals should be tested on animals. Because, well, those products are MEANT for animals. On the other hand, cosmetics shouldn't be tested on animals. This is not only because I believe it's very cruel, but because those products are designed for people and not animals. So obviously, products meant for people will have a different effect on animals (excluding some primates, but my point stands).

Fur farms:
I damn well think that's the only subject I'll EVER agree with PETA on. Some of those videos on that subject were just disgusting and distasteful. Because honestly, it's both cruel and pointless.
Most of the furs will be used solely for fashion purposes, rather than the wearer actually needing the fur for survival. In the stone age, fur was the only thing man could really wear, because they didn't have the technology for the kinds of clothes considered to be "mainstream" nowadays, yet. However, I've also learned that hides can also be de-furred and used to make certain parchment in place of using the wood from trees. Environmentally, I'm all for the use of hides as parchment, because it prevents deforestation. But if it's a "just because" thing, they really need to not do it. The same thing goes for leather, I strongly dislike leather unless the hide used was from an animal that was already dead (and had died of natural causes).
What's even more ironic is that my brother gets EXTREMELY emo over anything involving foxes getting killed, yet he owns a real fox tail. Kind of a hypocritical thing of him to do, if you ask me. :\

Just my two cents.

This post has been edited by Galahawk: Aug 29 2009, 04:02 PM

[Lappy]

ya... That's human all so evil ... Actually I think If you kick a dog, it won't cry out :-j it bite back =)) Lol, so I think if they do anything hurt the natural, they will get what they deserve to =)) That's natural

[HerbGirl]

I think animal testing is wrong... ive seen things that they do and its really sick


example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWgoxbIzFhc

[Merlin]

Regarding PETA and the HSUS:
I always take what both of those organizations say, with a grain of salt. Neither organization is a reputable one to gain information from, especially considering their track record in aiding in the killing of animals.

Animal testing in the pharmaceutical world is a necessary evil, to determine if a particular medicine is safe for human consumption. So long as the animal is treated with dignity and privy to a painless death, then I grudgingly support it.

Fur Farms, on the other hand, are deplorable.

[Reyo]

Technically every dog food brand funds animal testing- they test their dog food on dogs, cat food on cats, etc before it goes out to market. Same thing with medications, both human and pet intended.

I support medical animal testing and testing for PET PRODUCTS, but not cosmetic or other industries. Medical animal testing benefits all creatures, human or not (medications, antibiotics, prosthetics, treatments- these help the pets who use these just as much as the people who use them). Pet products is a necessity, as any toy/object that could pose a danger needs to be identified before it gets released to the public.
I do not support cosmetic testing because it has no benefit for the testees, and instead usually causes pain. Human testees are pretty readily available (some people make their incomes being lab subjects). Other industries, while usually not as bad as cosmetics, can usually be done on human subjects rather than other animals.

However, I abhor the Chinese fur farms because of the way they treat their animals- no better than puppy mills.

I can't really put it any better than this. The testing is there for a reason. Would you rather us just release pet medication without knowing what it might do? What if it makes their head asplode? I'd rathor that happen in a controlled lab where notes can be reviewed to see what went wrong than while Little Suzy is petting Fifi during the ride back home from the vet. And as for the Chinese, they do a lot of messed up stuff that I feel could be improved upon. Though, in all fairness, evolution wasn't put in place to be fair. In fact, if it were fair, it'd create more problems than solutions.

[MoogleSam]

I remember a brand of cat food that my cats loved that was taken off market for a while because, IT WAS TESTED ON CATS. I was like: "Mum are you kidding me? That is such a stupid reason to complain about cat food! Cats are the ones who eat it so why would it be wrong to test it on them!? O_O" Seriously, why should humans test food for cats? Humans are not going to eat it! IT IS FOR CATS THEREFORE I BELIEVE IT IS SAFE TO SEE IF THEY LIKE THE FOOD! XD

I can't believe some people will actually complain about cat food being tested on cats and such...XD

[Prof Sabiba]

everything above is very good. animal testing should only be done on the species it applies to, going for humans also. fur farms, however, can BURN IN THE UNDERS for all I care about fur. seriously, IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT AT ALL, KILL 'EM BEFORE YOU SKIN 'EM!!!! it's cruel in the first place to do it at all, but ALIVE?!?!?!?! OBJECTION!! OBJECTION!! the animals should tie down the PEOPLE and skin THEM!!!! SEE HOW THOSE $#!%@#^* LIKE IT!!!!

wow...sry bout that, my pets are starting to get to me...

[yobanjojoe]

animal testing is just plain wrong
i mean animals don't deserve to be kept in cages
and have needles stuck into them
if you ask me i would say they should stop it right away

[MoogleSam]

animal testing is just plain wrong
i mean animals don't deserve to be kept in cages
and have needles stuck into them
if you ask me i would say they should stop it right away

Some animal testing is just to see if they like a flavour of food which is designed for them though, not that I am saying animal testing isn't wrong but, you can't say it is all just plain wrong. I don't think humans would particularly like to taste cat or dog food for the animals, would you eat animal food to see if they will like the flavour? I don't think you would, I know I wouldn't.

[Blueberry]

"OMGLET'STOTALLYSAVETHEANIMALS!!! D< DRUG TESTING ON ANIMALS IS WRRRROOOONNNNGGGG" Yes, I agree it is very wrong to do but you gotta really get used to human nature in this aspect. They will not take humans and put make up on them that might kill them so LET'S USE A MONKEY! Most of these animals are kept/bred in captivity, so the lab is really all they know. It's as bad as keeping them in zoos. In drug testing/lab tests most of it is used on mice/rats because they have some weird DNA thing close to humans. These animals are (sorry to say) stupid. Reduced to nothing but a shell that is there to eat, fuck, get tested on, and die. Simple. We serve our purpose and they serve theirs.

If humans were bred this way (the same way animals were exactly. Given meals, friends maybe that they are just like, and limited/no communication in the outside world. Seriously convincing them that there was no world outside of the walls of the little cell they have. They would believe it) and tested on then a whole huge debate would spark up and a lot of shit would hit the fan. I mean, people all the time are convinced of things that there is no hard proof on and they sit and just..believe it. It's how human nature works.

Without animal testing we would be pretty lost and a lot of people would die because of drug tests they signed up for themselves.
For all those who think it's wrong wrong and want it to stop, think about that the next time you take any kind of medicine because maybe thousands of animals died just to make your cold go away or make your head stop hurting

This post has been edited by Blueberry: Jan 20 2010, 09:18 PM