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Debates and Tone
Lord Raven
post Jun 6 2013, 05:45 PM
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This is an interesting thing to debate and I'm going to prevent myself from flooding the thread about heathens to post here

QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 6 2013, 06:17 AM) *
You shouldn't debate tone, you should debate the points. I really disagree with the assertion that tone can be equal to the actual content. My tone was not intentionally aggressive. It's a fact that he was saying a lot of incorrect things throughout his postings, it's not an insult to say someone is wrong. I never once insulted him.
Perception is reality. Nobody cares about intentions if the point came across negatively, and a lot of these internet flamewars and HUGE arguments you see around have some sort of aggressor who is less-than-tactful with his tone. People respond to that negatively and it causes some sort of pride complex that prevents any sort of resolution because, 9 times out of 10, a flamewar erupts due to two prideful people duking it out because the other person rubbed them the wrong way. The assertion of "You're right I'm wrong" in a condescending way leaves us to these points.

On top of that, responding to a three year old post just to prove the dude wrong, given that a lot can change in 3 years, in such a tone is improper and generally unnecessary. It's an annoying thing to read, hence my original point "chill." You don't have to insult someone or be aggressive to have poor tone; the context around which you post is also a great factor.

This will become very apparent in the future, because as right as you can be many people will not accept it depending on the way you express it, simply because of the way you express it. In the real world even in casual social situations nobody is going to care about your content if your delivery sucks. Most basic example to illustrate my point (but it's not my point overall, which someone should understand before they dissect this post point by point), look at many comedians and TV shows; on paper, The Simpsons (90s era) is actually not funny and Norm Macdonald is a talentless comedian, but the delivery, tone, atmosphere, and context are what make them hold-your-sides hilarious, not the content itself. Content itself is chuckleworthy at best.

QUOTE
His tone was very rude and condescending to begin with. With sentences such as "I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean." - made even worse by the fact that he is wrong. I find it odd that you call out my tone whilst ignoring his much worse and much more hostile tone. I understand the post is old, but you did call it "harmless" while insinuating that there was something wrong with my tone.

I never said what he said was right. I said that your post can be construed negatively because of how you reacted to such a minor point (about nothing but semantics, no less), didn't care too much about whether or not your content was right or wrong (or the other guy's).


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Vixenite
post Jun 6 2013, 11:11 PM
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You keep telling me to chill, I'm not remotely angry. It's rather unnecessary.

You keep repeating that the post was three years old. Let me repeat - "It's said that you debate more for your audience than the person you're actually engaged with, and that's very true. No one challenged him on his point, so I corrected it for the people who read it and actually thought it was true.". I'm not proving him wrong at this point, I'm correcting his statement for other's to see. I've noticed it's a common misconception of the meaning of "atheist" and "agnostic". It might be a minor point but it was one that was made, so I corrected it. That topic is still being read today, everything posted should be responded to.

You're right that tone can make someone not listen to you, but it still doesn't invalidate anyone's points. I think the problem is people are sensitive to being told they're wrong - it's not something to be sensitive about. I don't say someone is wrong unless they are proven wrong by something (science, history, language ..). I never insulted him, just said that he was wrong.


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Lord Raven
post Jun 7 2013, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 6 2013, 11:11 PM) *
You keep telling me to chill, I'm not remotely angry. It's rather unnecessary.
wasnt aware you had to be angry to be told to chill lol

QUOTE
You keep repeating that the post was three years old. Let me repeat - "It's said that you debate more for your audience than the person you're actually engaged with, and that's very true. No one challenged him on his point, so I corrected it for the people who read it and actually thought it was true.". I'm not proving him wrong at this point, I'm correcting his statement for other's to see. I've noticed it's a common misconception of the meaning of "atheist" and "agnostic". It might be a minor point but it was one that was made, so I corrected it. That topic is still being read today, everything posted should be responded to.
lets leave this point only for me to tell you that as justified as you may be and as pure your intentions may or may not be, I as the audience you speak of found the counterpost unproductive and quite pompous given the context. Topic was somewhat buried and you'd have to dig through the thread to find his post.

As for the rest of your post, my phone browser hates the forums for whatever reason (Jeff get on that shit, I know you have an iPhone 5 and you probably use chrome on it!). I think the only thing I really disagree with in your last paragraph is that no, people are not that sensitive to being proven wrong, it's the method that matters. Someone picks apart minor points and coming off as pompous? That's a difficult person to take defeat from.


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