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"Under God" in the Pledge
Lord Raven
post May 24 2012, 03:05 AM
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There is no fucking way you are serious if you are copy+pasting the exact same content from a previous post.


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FirePower
post May 25 2012, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE(Not a Moron)
I also believe that if it stays, it shouldn't be mandatory to say, as I have gotten in some minor trouble for simply staying quiet during the "Under God" part.
Technically, it's not mandatory to say. You can't be forced to say any part of the pledge, put your hand over your heart, or even stand up. You have the freedoms of speech and religion. If somebody makes you say the pledge or punishes you for not doing so, they're violating your rights.

As for whether it should should stay or not, I'm fine with keeping it. A big part of it is that I'm Christian, but if you don't have to say it, then I don't see what the big deal is. As it is, if we remove "Under God" From the Pledge, the people who didn't want the part gone will probably get mad and start fighting with the people who wanted it gone, and then where would we be?


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Hitaka5Ever
post Jun 7 2012, 03:54 AM
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I do NOT like "under God" in the pledge because I'm atheist. I never said it in school because of that reason. I once was accused of not doing it because I "hate America", which isn't true at all. As much as it sucks to be in such a divided country, I prefer living here. I had to explain to everyone in the class that I don't do the pledge because of "under God". My school didn't force us to say it, but we had to at least stand--which I never did--


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strictlyninja
post Jun 19 2012, 02:43 PM
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Does it mean that this nation was FOUNDED under God, or that we ARE a nation under God?

Always confused me...


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Vixenite
post Oct 4 2012, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE(Reyo @ Sep 30 2011, 03:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Skins T @ Sep 30 2011, 04:22 AM) *
The currency here (as an example) had a fair bit of change done to it when the last one happened.

Yes, its indeed controversial, but not impossible, that's all I mean. ^^;


What caught my attention was "I see no harm in doing that whatsoever."

Yes, there is very much harm that can come from doing it. Very much many harm. That's what I was pointing out.

There IS absolutely no harm, you seem to have no grasp on what phasing out means. It'd take a while to happen, but eventually it'd be really rare to see the old forms of money. It wouldn't be a painful process or anything of the sort, nor stressful financial-wise. The only harm would be from religious people who have no right for their "god" to be on our money and in our pledge anyway.


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The Winnebago
post Oct 4 2012, 08:34 PM
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I've lost enough faith in America that I don't even say the pledge any more.
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Aves Dominari
post Oct 5 2012, 12:40 PM
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I never really cared about the Pledge of America (it's silly to assume that people will actually remain faithful to a pledge they repeated to avoid getting in trouble when they were teens, anyway) and I don't care that we're a nation 'under God.' It really isn't that big of a deal; yeah, my nickel says 'In God We Trust,' but just by holding that nickel I'm not a Christian. As long as I'm not forced to adopt Christian values simply because they're Christian ones or Christian practices just because they're Christian ones, I don't care what they print on our money. It just isn't worth making a fuss over.
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The Unholy Diver
post Oct 7 2012, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE(Aves Dominari @ Oct 5 2012, 10:40 AM) *
I never really cared about the Pledge of America (it's silly to assume that people will actually remain faithful to a pledge they repeated to avoid getting in trouble when they were teens, anyway) and I don't care that we're a nation 'under God.' It really isn't that big of a deal; yeah, my nickel says 'In God We Trust,' but just by holding that nickel I'm not a Christian. As long as I'm not forced to adopt Christian values simply because they're Christian ones or Christian practices just because they're Christian ones, I don't care what they print on our money. It just isn't worth making a fuss over.

I have to agree with this. Just because it is written on our money and said in our pledge, doesn't necisarily mean we HAVE to believe in it. Like many other posters said before, if you don't believe in it, don't say it.


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tehriah
post Nov 19 2012, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE
I never really cared about the Pledge of America (it's silly to assume that people will actually remain faithful to a pledge they repeated to avoid getting in trouble when they were teens, anyway) and I don't care that we're a nation 'under God.' It really isn't that big of a deal; yeah, my nickel says 'In God We Trust,' but just by holding that nickel I'm not a Christian. As long as I'm not forced to adopt Christian values simply because they're Christian ones or Christian practices just because they're Christian ones, I don't care what they print on our money. It just isn't worth making a fuss over.


Not to revive a dead topic, but would you feel the same if you were expected to say Under Allah? Or Under Vishnu? Under Odin? Under Amateratsu? Because there is a very large portion of America that feels as silly about pledging their allegiance to the Christian God as you would to an Indian elephant.

In my opinion, it should be taken out because this is not one nation under any particular god, and to say otherwise is an insult to anyone who isn't Christian. You would feel silly saying the pledge in the name of Jupiter. It demeans the pledge. It sucks all of the seriousness out. How can I pledge anything to my county in one breath when I'm rolling my eyes in the next?

It's an unnecessary addition born of xenophobic fear that has long, long since outlived it's purpose. We, as a country, should be beyond this by now. Separation of church and state unless you're actually reciting the national pledge makes absolutely no sense.


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MikaChan
post Nov 30 2012, 12:26 PM
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The country was founded by Christians, but it was made for religious freedom. There isn't as much tolerance as there should, but more and more people are being atheist. As for the pledge, I've never had a problem with it. Most of the students in my highly religious school, or at least my classes, just said it to see who could say it fastest. I'd say take it out, but the government wouldn't do anything.
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SilverLugia456
post Nov 30 2012, 02:00 PM
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I think this is one of those debates that will never be solved because there are many opinions and many beliefs that clash, I was always brought up to say the pledge not because of what was written in it but because of the the Pledge represent or means to this country. I know there are people out there who have their own ideals and beliefs, but the big picture in my opinion isn't about what is written in the pledge its about what the pledge represents. The pledge is said in memory of those who fought for this country so that we could be a free country. That is the personal reason why i say the pledge, because when I say it I remember those who went to war and died trying to make sure that us as a free nation kept our freedom and our rights.

This post has been edited by SilverLugia456: Nov 30 2012, 02:01 PM


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jellybean chi
post Mar 19 2013, 11:36 PM
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i don't know a ton about american history but i know enough to say this country was founded on Christian morals, based on those from the Reformation of the holy roman empire. they don't teach that in a lot of public schools anymore, though. that it was based on Christian morals. postmodernism, and all that crap, is really corrupting teaching and stuff. i think it should stay in the pledge as a country tradition, but if you don't want to say it, then i don't think anyone should be expected to say it. i mean, i wouldn't say it if i were expected to pledge to allah or buddha etc, but i believe that the pledge speaks truth and therefore, even if "under God" is taken out, then I will always say it anyway.
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DJ Majja Kool
post Mar 20 2013, 01:59 PM
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I don't think any god's name should be in the pledge, for reasons already stated.

@ the OP, on whether or not it's always been there: it wasn't originally. It was added in 1954 as a result of the Red Scare: http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

On another note, I think we should just get rid of reciting the Pledge in public schools altogether; there's no point in doing it and it takes time away from the class.

This post has been edited by Laughing Cupcakes: Mar 20 2013, 02:12 PM


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The Shadow
post Mar 20 2013, 02:13 PM
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Here's the way I see it. You should have respect for our country; and if the pledge bothers you...

Move out.

If we were in Nazi Germany, would there be an 'optional' Hail Hitler?

I don't believe so.

It may be tedious, but I do it twice in a day so deal with it. Any part of the pledge should be respected as much as any other, but it is indeed optional in most places to say 'under god'. On the same note as jellybean chi, this country WAS founded of christian morals. If you can't respect that...

Once again, move out.


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DJ Majja Kool
post Mar 20 2013, 03:25 PM
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The fact that you live in a country doesn't mean that you have to respect or agree with everything that the country does. I don't think there's any country that most people would agree with or like 100% on everything.

It's possible to disagree with something a country does but still respect/like/love the country, just like it's possible to disagree with a family member on an issue or be bothered by a certain mannerism they have but still love them. Not liking the Pledge, whether as a whole or just the "Under God" part, =/= not liking the country. And even if a person absolutely despises the country they live in, most people can't move out just like that.

The fact that a country was founded with certain ideals in mind doesn't mean that the country has to abide by those ideals for all eternity and never change their values/beliefs. That would be like saying that because Junior comes from a long line of doctors and Junior's parents raise him from birth with the expectation that he'll be the same, Junior has to become a doctor and has no business wanting to be a police officer, accountant, plumber, or whatever else. (and I've heard that some of the founding fathers were actually deist and didn't like the idea of religion being incorporated into the government)

This post has been edited by Laughing Cupcakes: Mar 20 2013, 03:39 PM


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The Shadow
post Mar 20 2013, 04:14 PM
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The "under god" part is optional, and the only religion it is not "respecting" would be atheism.

Many, many people believe in at least one god or another. The "under god" respects every religion under that category. It is OPTIONAL to say "under god". There is no reason for a horrible drawn out debate over it. Either say it or don't, it's your choice.


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DJ Majja Kool
post Mar 20 2013, 11:08 PM
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It's referring to God specifically rather than the title of god that many religions use for supreme beings.

The entire pledge was optional at the high school I went to. In my last post I was mainly replying to the "If you don't like it, leave" statement, which I see now that I partially misunderstood. I completely missed the point of the Nazi Germany comparison and didn't realize what it meant until after I already posted.

This post has been edited by Laughing Cupcakes: Mar 20 2013, 11:13 PM


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callmeish
post Apr 3 2013, 02:51 AM
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My school doesn't "do" the Pledge of Allegiance. There's no morning announcements or anything where it would happen. Sometimes assemblies or sports games will have the national anthem, but I don't even remember the last time I heard the pledge said aloud. Which is totally fine with me. I'm rather apathetic towards it. When I went to a school where it was a thing, I said it because it was routine. I think anyone who chooses not to say it shouldn't have to, and it really has no business in public schools to begin with, but removing it is more effort than it's worth when it's not a big deal at all.


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