[X] My Assistant

[Gati]

I have read around the net and watched various documentaries on religion and basically decided that it was one of the stupidest things ever invented by humans. Two documentaries in particular;

• Religulous - a documentary by Bill Maher, that basically shows how ridiculous religion is, I know he's a comedian but he brings good points as well as the people he interviews. One that got my attention was an interview with Father George Coyne whom is a former director of the Vatican Observatory, he said "the Christian scriptures were written between 2000 years BC and to about 200 years AC, that's it. Modern science came to be with Galileo up to Newton up to Einstein, what we know as Modern Science, is in that period. How in the world can there be any science in scripture […] There can not be."
  

  

• And Jesus Camp - which is a movie about an evangelical Christian community mostly focusing on a couple of kids and Becky Fisher who runs the "Kids on Fire School of Ministry" Christian sumer camp. The film is all neutral, and only shows what they do along with a couple of interviews. To me however, it shows how easy is to manipulate people, especially kids, when it comes to things like this.

Why banned it; If you have heard the recent controversy of the South Park episode 200 and 201, where they ones again put Muhammad in a censored box and a bunch of crap, then you know about the death threads.
Not only that, but people have been killed simply because of different believes for thousands of years, and I am fucking tired and disgusted that at least two times a week innocent people are killed by bombings usually in the Middle East.
Yes, it would create riots and many people would be pissed, but I think mythology is basically constantly creating more tension and more violence.

And a message for religious people that actually believe that their religion is the answer and all this is bullshit or that I should die and whatnot, people with hatred and tolerance, as Jon Stewart would say, go fuck yourself.

Comments are welcome.. I don't mind sharing my whole views on mythology.

This post has been edited by Gati: Jul 1 2010, 07:58 PM

[Lord Raven]

I JUST SAW THAT JON STEWART EPISODE

ONE POINT FOR YOU


on topic, fuck religion, that's why i'm indifferent. there are good religious people, though, which you can't really deny

[Gati]

there are good religious people, though, which you can't really deny

That is true, as well as people that were supposedly saved by a religion and that they quit drugs or just became a better person because of the teachings and so on.

[Kintenbo]

Just as one should not force religion on a person, forcing Atheism is every bit as bad. We can't control what people think, though we can certainly try to persuade. Me being a Baptist Christian, this is probably saying a lot, since we tend to be very assertive with our beliefs. My church is supportive of separation of church and state, that being that neither have the right to directly butt into the other's affairs (though there's nothing wrong with stuff like "under God" in our pledge, religious things in public, and such), so my church is definitely not one to stick its face in politics. My church is very big on spreading the Gospel, but my pastor highly stresses on doing it in a respectful manner. The Christian who threatens non-believers with violence I dare say is hardly a Christian at all! I can't speak for other religions, so whether violence can legitimately stem from other religions or not is not for me to say. So all and all, banned religion is as every bit a foolish notion as forced religion, in my opinion.

[Lord Raven]

there are good religious people, though, which you can't really deny

That is true, as well as people that were supposedly saved by a religion and that they quit drugs or just became a better person because of the teachings and so on.

that's far from what i said but it's valid enough, cause a couple of my best friends are pretty damn religious and they know my religious/political views

[LiteSpeed]

I have to say, that this just proves the point that America is becoming less of the vision the founding fathers dreamed of. The creator of that episode had every right to show that stuff, maybe he needed a warning. But still, just like people are allowed to be Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, or Aethiest, shows should have freedom of religion as well.

[Lord Raven]

What are you talking about? if anything, if you give it a couple decades, we're going to be even more like their vision considering once our generation can vote we can basically bring about more liberal ideologies

[Reyo]

In my experience, it's more the individual personality that dictates the person than the religion. Yes, religion provides the reason, but reason is nothing without motivation. For example, there's more than enough reasons that I should do my math homework, but without the motivation to get it done chances are I won't get arsed to complete it untill sometime next week.

If it's not religion, then it's money...or power...or personal pleasure. The point is that evil people exist with and without religion, and getting rid of it would do nothing more than force those people to find another reason to do what they do.

EDIT: As far as the documentary goes I didn't really watch it (I dislike documentaries altogether), but I do have several questions. How many agnostics did he interview? How many people did he interview where they believe in both science AND God? How many of those interviews lasted more than 1 or 2 questions let along make it in the final cut?

I ask because that's another thing I've observed. When people have an alterior motive, they tend to lean more towards the side that validates that motive. All it takes is some poking and proding for it to come out in any discussion.

[Gati]

- ..doing math homework, you know that it'll help your grade whereas the teachings of religion are suppose to be common sense and the rest is just mythology and or exaggerated stories… I don't see the motivation.

- true.. but you can not deny that religion has gotten/getting away with murder, both literally and metaphorically, much more than any organization or whatever else.

- Documentaries usually just show what the producers and others want to show. Wikipedia has a full list of the interviews though.

I also believe that it shouldn't be banned completely, but restricted. Basically, actually following the separation of church and state, and remove anything that has to do with any religion including removing words like "God" and "Lord" from any document, bill, etc. as well as making statements from the bible to no longer be valid.

[Reyo]

- ..doing math homework, you know that it'll help your grade whereas the teachings of religion are suppose to be common sense and the rest is just mythology and or exaggerated stories… I don't see the motivation.

Key phrase: supposed to be common sense

What you feel is supposed to happen does not always happen. Human psychology has proven time and time again to be something that is very much not black and white.

Besides, YOU say that teachings on religion have purpose, but YOU don't dictate reality.

- true.. but you can not deny that religion has gotten/getting away with murder, both literally and metaphorically, much more than any organization or whatever else.

People have gotton away with murder using religion as a scapegoat because those who would prosecute them LET them get away with it. It's the same idea of a parent allowing their children to get away with things because of assanine reasons like "He started it."

- Documentaries usually just show what the producers and others want to show. Wikipedia has a full list of the interviews though.

Wikipedia is also a horrible academic source of information.

I also believe that it shouldn't be banned completely, but restricted. Basically, actually following the separation of church and state, and remove anything that has to do with any religion including removing words like "God" and "Lord" from any document, bill, etc. as well as making statements from the bible to no longer be valid.

Yeah, restriction is a better choince than full blown bannishment. Believe it or not, religion does tend to promote good in people.

[Gati]

- don't you think I know that?

- eh.. somewhat true, I was mostly pointing at the Vatican.

- then why you asked about the documentary in the first place? like i said "Documentaries usually just show what the producers and others want to show." It depends on the viewer to see if it is either truthful or faulty.. just like Michael Moore's films.

- I do believe that it tends to promote good, but that a lot of times is corrupted by people and do the opposite, just like islam in today's world.

[Reyo]

- don't you think I know that?

No, considering you gave a very ambiguous comment on the matter. I can't read minds bro.

- eh.. somewhat true, I was mostly pointing at the Vatican.

Believe it or not, most people who are "supposed" to support the Vatican...don't really give a shit about the Vatican.

- then why you asked about the documentary in the first place? like i said "Documentaries usually just show what the producers and others want to show." It depends on the viewer to see if it is either truthful or faulty.. just like Michael Moore's films.

I was hoping someone would provide a more academically sound source of information. Not wikiFAILdia.

- I do believe that it tends to promote good, but that a lot of times is corrupted by people and do the opposite, just like islam in today's world.

You can apply that logic to just about everything. Look at alcohol. You can drink it as a leisure drink to calm yourself down, taking advantage of the fact that it's a depressant. People tend to corrupt this idea by drinking like a fish.

[Kintenbo]

I also believe that it shouldn't be banned completely, but restricted. Basically, actually following the separation of church and state, and remove anything that has to do with any religion including removing words like "God" and "Lord" from any document, bill, etc. as well as making statements from the bible to no longer be valid.

For what it's worth, I always thought that separation of church and state equated to that neither can tell the other what to do. I don't see how religious expression within the government violates that. It's the people within the government that wrote it, no church told them to do it. Personally, I find things like banning school prayer a violation of separation of church and state, since the government is telling teachers not to lead in a prayer. Naturally, if it was a matter of said teachers forcing the students to pray, that be wrong, but it'd be foolish to try that anyway.

[Gati]

Believe it or not, most people who are "supposed" to support the Vatican...don't really give a shit about the Vatican.

I was talking about that the Vatican and catholic church today get away with molestation, rape, and abuse today. As well as in the past, and in the past they constantly killed people who even dared to speak against the church.

For what it's worth, I always thought that separation of church and state equated to that neither can tell the other what to do. I don't see how religious expression within the government violates that. It's the people within the government that wrote it, no church told them to do it. Personally, I find things like banning school prayer a violation of separation of church and state, since the government is telling teachers not to lead in a prayer. Naturally, if it was a matter of said teachers forcing the students to pray, that be wrong, but it'd be foolish to try that anyway.

..What?
I think you don't know much about the government. Separation of church and state is basically or more like supposedly; that all governmental things have nothing to do with any religion, yes no church told someone to write "God" or "Lord" in an official document but it was their religious beliefs that were taught by a church.
Banning prayers in PUBLIC schools, I strongly agree with that law, because they are government owed that anyone can and/or must attend.

[Iconox]

I'm a Christian, but I despise debating people about religion (if you're set in your beliefs, no way I can change it; plus, it's rude to force one's beliefs onto others). That being said, you're saying that religion should be banned? Not only is that a violation of one's free speech, there's no way it would ever be able to succeed with the billions of people that are religious in the world and in doing so would be forcing atheism down other people's throats.

[Progfox]

I also believe that it shouldn't be banned completely, but restricted. Basically, actually following the separation of church and state, and remove anything that has to do with any religion including removing words like "God" and "Lord" from any document, bill, etc. as well as making statements from the bible to no longer be valid.

For what it's worth, I always thought that separation of church and state equated to that neither can tell the other what to do. I don't see how religious expression within the government violates that. It's the people within the government that wrote it, no church told them to do it. Personally, I find things like banning school prayer a violation of separation of church and state, since the government is telling teachers not to lead in a prayer. Naturally, if it was a matter of said teachers forcing the students to pray, that be wrong, but it'd be foolish to try that anyway.

Actually it means that the government cannot sponsor a church or religion. There cannot be anything as a national religion. No affiliation. The original law was written due to the King of England being the head of the Church and the Vatican actually having political power. This caused many problems back before the Revolutionary War occurred and our forefathers didn't want to have the same issues arise. The separation of church and state is to protect against such things, so that people will be able to practice as they please without government interference or vice versa.

Ironically, most of the people that signed the Constitution in the first place happened to be pastors or people firmly rooted in Christianity, exception to a few.

However, I am Christian. When it comes to prayer in school or whatnot, I believe that each religion should have their own opportunities to voice themselves as well. Don't ban it, but instead make it equal opportunity for everyone. I might believe that my faith is the one way, but I am not arrogant enough not to think that people shouldn't be able to express their own faith. We have the freedom of expressing our faith and that's simply the way it should be. The government shouldn't force us one way or another and no teacher either.

This post has been edited by Genesis: Jun 4 2010, 03:20 PM

[Reyo]

Believe it or not, most people who are "supposed" to support the Vatican...don't really give a shit about the Vatican.

I was talking about that the Vatican and catholic church today get away with molestation, rape, and abuse today. As well as in the past, and in the past they constantly killed people who even dared to speak against the church.

By the way, did anyone see the flyers I put up about rounding all of the Germans up and burning them all at a huge, salem witch type stake for what happened to the jews in the 1940s?

[Gati]

Iconox and Genesis read the my previous post.. I also said that it shouldn't be banned but restricted.

[Elito]

I am Catholic. All of my family from who-knows-when are catholics. So I was raised as a catholic. However, I'm not very much religious. I go to church on big holidays, like Easter, Christmas or so, and maybe few times random in a year.
You cannot force people to believe in something, or force them to not believe in something. It's just the way it is.
I know some Christians that are forcing some other to go to church, trust in God and all, and that is plain stupid.
However, there is some other people who are really good and threat you very nice.

For me, my religion doesn't represents a point of view to the world. It just represents the place where I can tell all of my problems, and someone on who I can completely rely on. When I'm sad I go to church and I believe that the God will hear me, or whatever.
However, there is a lot of different religions, and everybody will say that exactly his religion is the real one. However, we can not know that until we die, right?
But if you ask me, you have to believe in something, even if that something is nothing.

[Gaming Thumbs]

I just think people should be left alone to choose whether or not they want to follow a religion.