[X] My Assistant

[King Calamity]

How many of you think that democrats seem to exploit the race card and use it to get votes and face time from minority groups in the US?
They say that they want to fight so that african americans, latinos, asians, women (I know woman arent a race but they are apart of this to), etc. get the money and respect they deserve, but why exactly do african americans, latinos, asians, women, etc. deserve to get all of that extra help and no one else?
White people can struggle from injustices just as much as any other race out there, im not talking about like in the past with slavery and racism and everything cuz most of that is in the past and theres not alot of that effecting it now, nowadays people are suffering as one because of the economy and so forth. so why would minorites deserve more help than anyone else?
People who have suffered from racism say that they just want to be treated like everyone else, but this is not being treated equal, its being exploited for your loyalty.

my opinion on this is like i discussed earlier, all they want is to say that they will do things for african americans, latinos, asians, women, etc. just so they can get your vote and be put into power.

Now i wanna here your opinions AND NO RACIAL COMMENTS OR YOU WILL BE REPORTED!

This post has been edited by The Enigmatic Trainer: May 3 2009, 03:00 PM

[Atom]

Haha, oh wow.


First off, racism's not in the past. It still runs rampant even today. Women, non-heterosexuals, and racial and ethnic minorities are highly institutionally disenfranchised in all areas of society. White people have privileges minorities may never have unless we fight for them. White people benefit from institutionalized racism, and even if they suffer from economic downturns, they still have the upper hand over minorities.

Democrats, or even anyone fighting for equality, help minorities and women because these groups are still not considered equal. They're not getting "special treatment", they're getting help because they don't get the same benefits white (and male) people get by default.

[Zoreta]

They aim to try and support the minorities because stigmas still exist.

For instance, rent, wage and employment discrimination isn't rare.

Although it illegal, some apartment complex owners will discourage renting to certain groups (There was a study done where volunteers of various accents and false names called the same apartment complexes to investigate a place to live, and it was very clear that some landlords would tell people of certain ethnicity that they were full, and others that they had openings. Hae Eun Kim was told they their last apartment had been filled, while Walter Miller was told they had an opening)

The same occurs for employment openings, who gets selected to be fired, and wages. If a man and a women have the exact same job, having been working the job for the same amount of time and all other factors are the same, the woman will tend to make about 75% of what the man makes (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgrows.htm)

The intent is not to raise them on pedestals, but to get them on equal ground.

[King Calamity]

maybe
but it now seems like the entire thing has flipped now
other people may experience racism still but thats not to say that i dont (as a 75% white and 25% mexican) experience racism from other races as well.
i have also been denied certain rights i should have, descriminated against, and pushed around because i was white, so i dont really accept that as an excuse.
people may call me a liar for saying that, but that doesnt mean i am.
if we are all just descriminating against each other, than like i said, i dont see why they should get any more special treatment than anyone else.

This post has been edited by The Enigmatic Trainer: May 3 2009, 04:04 PM

[Zoreta]

Because it happens more often, and on a wider scale, to the minority. In interactions, you may get it with others, but when it comes to real statistics like wage, the minority gets the short end of the stick every time.

These are a couple years cold, but is still applicable:

http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/median...-race-2006.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908883.html

[Atom]

maybe
but it now seems like the entire thing has flipped now
other people may experience racism still but thats not to say that i dont (as a 75% white and 25% mexican) experience racism from other races as well.
i have also been denied certain rights i should have, descriminated against, and pushed around because i was white, so i dont really accept that as an excuse.
people may call me a liar for saying that, but that doesnt mean i am.
if we are all just descriminating against each other, than like i said, i dont see why they should get any more special treatment than anyone else.

I'm half white and half Colombian. I've experienced racism too.
But the difference between racist behaviour exhibited by a minority and racist behaviour exhibited by a white person is the power structure underlying the situation. If a black person calls a white person 'cracker', yes it's wrong, but at the end of the day, the white person still has all the power in society. The white person's racism has the power to change society and undermine the efforts and contributions of minorities. The white person's racism reminds people that whites are in charge and that all others are not considered the norm, the default, are 'wrong' and 'inferior'.

Again, it's not special treatment. Like Zoreta said:

The intent is not to raise them on pedestals, but to get them on equal ground.

[King Calamity]

Because it happens more often, and on a wider scale, to the minority. In interactions, you may get it with others, but when it comes to real statistics like wage, the minority gets the short end of the stick every time.

These are a couple years cold, but is still applicable:

http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/median...-race-2006.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908883.html

i saw the rates, and i dont doubt their truth, but i didnt see anything on those pages that state WHY the wages are like that, which could be from a number of reasons, or did i just miss it?

[Zoreta]

It could be because the people in those groups were discriminated against in the job market or in school.

http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000003.html

Although minorities tend to be more likely to attend college, they also have a higher unemployment rate, again, due to job discrimination.

[King Calamity]

maybe
but it now seems like the entire thing has flipped now
other people may experience racism still but thats not to say that i dont (as a 75% white and 25% mexican) experience racism from other races as well.
i have also been denied certain rights i should have, descriminated against, and pushed around because i was white, so i dont really accept that as an excuse.
people may call me a liar for saying that, but that doesnt mean i am.
if we are all just descriminating against each other, than like i said, i dont see why they should get any more special treatment than anyone else.

I'm half white and half Colombian. I've experienced racism too.
But the difference between racist behaviour exhibited by a minority and racist behaviour exhibited by a white person is the power structure underlying the situation. If a black person calls a white person 'cracker', yes it's wrong, but at the end of the day, the white person still has all the power in society. The white person's racism has the power to change society and undermine the efforts and contributions of minorities. The white person's racism reminds people that whites are in charge and that all others are not considered the norm, the default, are 'wrong' and 'inferior'.

Again, it's not special treatment. Like Zoreta said:

The intent is not to raise them on pedestals, but to get them on equal ground.

but white people arent in control of EVERYTHING, just most of what people focus on.
there are alot of white people in charge, but there are people of other race and sex in charge of their own thing too.
and the reason that alot of buisinesses that are owned by white people are big and make alot of money is because USUALLY ( and i mean USUALLY, not 100% of the time) those companies are the ones that do the job right and provide the best over-all service.
im sure people can say that its hard for any minority that is in charge of a prosperous company can say that their business cant get big because of bigger white owned companies putting them down, when its actually just difficult for any race PERIOD to get a good decent business started.
what im still tryin to say is that racism isnt just whites against everyone else anymore, its everyone against everyone

This post has been edited by The Enigmatic Trainer: May 3 2009, 04:36 PM

[King Calamity]

It could be because the people in those groups were discriminated against in the job market or in school.

http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000003.html

Although minorities tend to be more likely to attend college, they also have a higher unemployment rate, again, due to job discrimination.

im sorry im slightly confused about one part
what does it mean by "Exclusions"?
is it talking about not being allowed into colleges or does it mean on the lines of expulsion?

[Zoreta]

Racism is everybody versus everybody, but that doesn't mean that the sides are equal. Caucasians are the majority in the USA, and so, there will be more of them that are racist. I don't see how that's hard to understand.

Let's say, that there are 100 bunnies. 70 bunnies are light brown (white), and 30 bunnies are dark brown (minority group). For both bunnies, 10% of them will have floppy ears (racist), and 90% will have perky ears (not racist). You'd get 7 light brown, floppy eared bunnies (racist whites) and 3 dark brown, floppy eared bunnies (racist minority)

What you're saying is that whites are inherently better workers than the minorities "the reason that alot of buisinesses that are owned by white people are big and make alot of money is because USUALLY ( and i mean USUALLY, not 100% of the time) those companies are the ones that do the job right and provide the best over-all service."

You act as if this can't change, and that the minority is just using excuses, when the Caucasians have an advantage simply because they're Caucasian.

EDIT: Exclusion is a bit like segregation. Expulsion, being forced to work away from the other kids, etc. It can also be that the teacher ignores the minority kid absolutely, such as if the minority kid and white kid both raise their hands to answer a question, and the white kid always gets called.

This post has been edited by Zoreta: May 3 2009, 04:44 PM

[Atom]

but white people arent in control of EVERYTHING, just most of what people focus on.
there are alot of white people in charge, but there are people of other race and sex in charge of their own thing too.
and the reason that alot of buisinesses that are owned by white people are big and make alot of money is because USUALLY ( and i mean USUALLY, not 100% of the time) those companies are the ones that do the job right and provide the best over-all service.
im sure people can say that its hard for any minority that is in charge of a prosperous company can say that their business cant get big because of bigger white owned companies putting them down, when its actually just difficult for any race PERIOD to get a good decent business started.
what im still tryin to say is that racism isnt just whites against everyone else anymore, its everyone against everyone

It's more difficult for minorities to get businesses started because they generally get poorer education, have a harder time getting hired than white people, and generally are not given the same kinds of opportunities as white people. Minorities have to try harder to get to the same level that the average white person can get to with less effort.

I'm talking generally. Yes, there are minorities in charge of their own things. But OVERALL, white people are in charge, and when their power is threatened, whether subconsciously or not, measures are taken to disadvantage the non-whites.

It could be because the people in those groups were discriminated against in the job market or in school.

http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000003.html

Although minorities tend to be more likely to attend college, they also have a higher unemployment rate, again, due to job discrimination.

im sorry im slightly confused about one part
what does it mean by "Exclusions"?
is it talking about not being allowed into colleges or does it mean on the lines of expulsion?

Exclusion means expulsion is how I'm understanding that section.

[Ogre]

Democrats exploit the insecurity and victim-mindset of minorities for political gain, while Republicans exploit the xenophobia and misplaced nationalism of in-groups (namely, whites and monied folk of all races) for political gain.

Don't assume for a second that anything a political institution does is for anything other than its own propagation. The democratic process is nothing but exploitation. If voting for any one candidate actually changed the status quo, IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL!

[Cassowary]

Even if race was exploited - which it really wasn't, at least in my eyes - I'm guessing that some people also DIDN'T vote for Obama because he was black. So... sorta evens out, somewhat.

[King Calamity]

okay, so lets say that they do get discriminated against all the time like they say that they do and that they need some extra money for it, the real problem is where that money comes from, US, the tax payer money.
Do i think that people under discrimination should get a little financial help? yes.
do i think that they should get some of MY money that i pay to have the government protect us? thats a big hell no.
i have never done anything negative to any other community, so why should I, or for that matter ANY of the people who have never hurt any minority group, have to pay for these people to live happy with MY HARD EARNED MONEY?
all that they do is take wealth from people who actually earn it and give it to the people so that everyone gets an equal share.
Theres a word for that, i think its called COMMUNISM!

[Atom]

okay, so lets say that they do get discriminated against all the time like they say that they do and that they need some extra money for it, the real problem is where that money comes from, US, the tax payer money.
Do i think that people under discrimination should get a little financial help? yes.
do i think that they should get some of MY money that i pay to have the government protect us? thats a big hell no.
i have never done anything negative to any other community, so why should I, or for that matter ANY of the people who have never hurt any minority group, have to pay for these people to live happy with MY HARD EARNED MONEY?
all that they do is take wealth from people who actually earn it and give it to the people so that everyone gets an equal share.
Theres a word for that, i think its called COMMUNISM!

You just answered your own question with one little statement:

do i think that they should get some of MY money that i pay to have the government protect us?

Taxpayer money goes towards supporting national infrastructure and getting programs started that protect and support the citizenry. Part of that citizenry is minorities groups. These groups have been systematically kept down and made sure to never succeed at the same level as white people overall, and the government needs to correct its errors and help people rather than deprive them of resources and equal treatment.

The problem is that you're only looking at racism as individual, purposeful acts rather than a system, mostly subconscious, held up to benefit the interests of white people above those of anyone else. Racist person =/= bad person. A person may never realize they are perpetuating a racist structure all the while they are denouncing racism. They aren't bad people, they've just been brought up within a system that benefits them and teaches them that anything that goes against their desires is a threat to be suppressed.

[King Calamity]

okay, so lets say that they do get discriminated against all the time like they say that they do and that they need some extra money for it, the real problem is where that money comes from, US, the tax payer money.
Do i think that people under discrimination should get a little financial help? yes.
do i think that they should get some of MY money that i pay to have the government protect us? thats a big hell no.
i have never done anything negative to any other community, so why should I, or for that matter ANY of the people who have never hurt any minority group, have to pay for these people to live happy with MY HARD EARNED MONEY?
all that they do is take wealth from people who actually earn it and give it to the people so that everyone gets an equal share.
Theres a word for that, i think its called COMMUNISM!

You just answered your own question with one little statement:

do i think that they should get some of MY money that i pay to have the government protect us?

Taxpayer money goes towards supporting national infrastructure and getting programs started that protect and support the citizenry. Part of that citizenry is minorities groups. These groups have been systematically kept down and made sure to never succeed at the same level as white people overall, and the government needs to correct its errors and help people rather than deprive them of resources and equal treatment.

The problem is that you're only looking at racism as individual, purposeful acts rather than a system, mostly subconscious, held up to benefit the interests of white people above those of anyone else. Racist person =/= bad person. A person may never realize they are perpetuating a racist structure all the while they are denouncing racism. They aren't bad people, they've just been brought up within a system that benefits them and teaches them that anything that goes against their desires is a threat to be suppressed.

its something that the government should stay out of though. when i say that i pay for the governments protection, im mean to support things like our military or our police and fire department. Racism doesnt have anything to do with national security, it has to do with misunderstandings and lies that unfortunately have been spread for hundreds, possibly thousands of years. the more that FACTS are presented about these lies and misunderstandings, the more people will come to realize that racism is just a false belief and the only reason that people are actually racist anymore is just because they were raised to be so. the only thing we can do about racism is just let it die out. in the mean time, everybody seems to be making out that minorites and such are helpless people who cant ake care of themselves and can only prevail if they recieve help from the government, which is just more of the democratic party trying to have larger government control over the people, but they kkep making it seem like these people are lesser than they are and cant take care of themselves, which to me is TRULEY racist.
In case anyone hasnt noticed, im agaisnt large government with more power, which is what democrats are for, because more government control spawns corruption.
anyway, like i said, the only thing we can do about racism is let it die out, and the democrat party doesnt help that when they separate them out and put them up on a pedestal. thats exactly whats happening with marijuana right now. more and more people who were against the legalization of weed are now realizing that they were fed racist lies about weed and are now discovering that because of true facts weed is not nearly as harmful as originally thought. infact theres almost no negative damage from it. but thats the whole process of learning new facts. people are just gonna have to learn that there are no facts in racism.

This post has been edited by The Enigmatic Trainer: May 12 2009, 08:37 PM