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Battle Subway teambuilding - understanding IVs and Natures, Having a hard time finding Pokemon for the Battle Subway?
Kingis
post Sep 3 2020, 12:27 PM
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Battle Subway teambuilding - understanding IVs and Natures

So this question keeps coming up occasionally and I thought I might do some little "tutorial" on how to understand these things. I am by no means an expert so take it with a grain of salt. Feel free to ask any questions or if you think something is incorrect, lemme know! (PMs preferred.)

Essentially, what I wanna do here - at the end of this "guide", you should be able to take a Pokemon, look at the stats and go "yes, this Nature will be beneficial and these IVs would be the best". So hopefully that works out! And from that, you should be able to pick Pokemon for your team.

Without further ado...!

0. Basics
1. Types of Pokemon
2. Natures
3. IVs
4. Items
5. Picking the right Pokemon & teambuilding
6. Battling in the Battle Subways

0. Basics
I will assume you know the battling basics. That means you might know a thing or two from Sam's guide as well as have read the Help page on Battling and know the type effectiveness chart. In addition, it is important to know the difference between Strong and Weak moves, as well as Physical or Special moves. So here's a quick run-through of everything else:
- Every Pokemon has 6 stats - HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed.
- Attack, Special Attack and Speed are offensive statistics and decide how well the Pokemon can attack other Pokemon. Speed decides which Pokemon (you or the opponent) will attack first. In case of a tie, this is random.
- HP, Defense and Special Defense are defensive statistics and decide how well the Pokemon can take a hit.
- Physical attacks use Attack (of the attacker) and Defense (of the defender) statistics. Likewise, Special attack use Special Attack (of the attacker) and Special Defense (of the defender) statistics. When picking whether to use a Physical or a Special attack, check your Pokemon's Attack/Special Attack stats. Also, try to be aware of your opponent's Pokemon's stats and exploit that to your advantage.
- Besides Physical and Special moves, there are also Status moves - these do no damage, but offer other advantages/effects during battling.
- There is no limit to how many Weak moves a Pokemon can use, but you can only use three Strong moves per Pokemon per battle. All Pokemon get access to Strong Status moves, but only mono-type Pokemon get access to Strong attacking moves.

You can find each Pokemon's stats in the Pokedex or on this page on the Wiki I put together a while ago as well.

1. Types of Pokemon
Every Pokemon can fill in several roles in a team. Some Pokemon can be more versatile than others who have their role "pre-decided" for them. In such cases, you need to figure out what role you want the Pokemon fill and how it works with the rest of the team. Pokemon can generally be categorized to 4 main groups, which you can see here:

Pokemon types as described by Doom Hunter (click to show)


I will, however, classify them more generally based on their stats, just to see what are the important things and what to look for, when you are not sure or do not know what the classification is. Because at the end of the day, I want to simplify this as much as possible to make it understandable and accessible. I would group them into three groups:
-- a) Offensive (Glass Cannons would fall in this category) - where one attacking stat is much higher
-- b) Defensive (Bulky Sweepers as well as Tanks would fall into this category)
-- c) Offensive mixed

So let's take a look at each group and see what their stats are like and how to accentuate them.

a) Offensive
Offensive Pokemon, at the name suggests, are there to be very hard hitting. They come in and do the damage, but usually aren't very good at taking it. As such, they have 3 very important stats: Attack, Special Attack and Speed. In short, these Pokemon usually rely on their Speed to outspeed the other Pokemon and their strong (Special) Attack to defeat the opponent.
An example of such Pokemon is an Alakazam, so let's look at its stats:

You can see that Alakazam's Special Attack and Speed are far greater than its other stats. As such, when thinking about Natures and IVs, we will try to accentuate these stats to make it as fast and as powerful as we possibly can. If possible, we never want to decrease their defenses, because they're already low; but they are not the main focus here. Similar Pokemon would be Darmanitan, Sawk, Zergoose, Dugtrio or maybe even Gengar. When you check the stats of these Pokemon, one of their attack stats - Attack or Special Attack - is usually far greater than the other.
Also keep in mind, that some of the more Offensive Pokemon, who Attack/Special Attack stats are very high, but lack Speed. This does not mean they would automatically be Defensive, but keep it in mind when using them.

b) Defensive
The second category are Defensive Pokemon. Their other stats might be okay, but their "main focus" would be their defenses. Their main role is to take hits and occasionally dish something out to get rid of the opponent. You usually don't need to worry about switching them in, because their defenses will take care of (almost any) attack coming their way. Defensive Pokemon can also have higher HP. Both Tanks and Sweepers would fall into this cateogry.
One such example is Ferrothorn:

You can see Ferrothorn has an abysmal Speed, but it has outstanding Defense and Special Defense. (This further classifies it as a Tank.) Except for Fire and Fighting type moves, that Ferrothorn is weak to, it is not afraid to switch into anything. When working with Ferrothorn's stats - and generally for Defensive Pokemon - we might want to sccentuate their defenses even more, to make them completely ridiculous, or we can accentuate one of their attacks to help them take down the opponent. Speed is usually of no concern here. Other Defensive Pokemon might be Clefable, Steelix, Cofagrigus or Magcargo, to name a few.
Defensive Pokemon can also have one of their defenses much higher than the other (think Avalugg, Blissey, Cryogonal, Regice or Cloyster). In such cases, you want to take advantage and be aware of this - they can work well to take hits of that one type (for example Cloyster taking Physical attacks), but will crumble otherwise. Most of the defensive Pokemon described above have fairly even defenses, or at least the lower one isn't too low, per se.

c) Offensive mixed
This third category is not very common, but I want to specifically bring them up, because they might be a bit harder to work with. They more often come up in core games, rather than on GPX, I feel. Mixed offensive Pokemon have higher Attack and Special Attack, as well as Speed, but they are usually equal - unlike for the Offensive category, where we've seen one attack being much higher than the other. Let's take a look at Lucario:

Lucario's stats are very even, so it is hard to pick "the better" one. We can either choose one - Physical Attack or Special Special Attack - to work with, or we can keep it "mixed" and use both of them. As such, these needs have to be accomodated, depending on which option we choose. If we are going for a Physical Lucario, for example, we will work with Attack and take it as an Offensive Pokemon (category a). If we want to keep it mixed and use both of the stats, we'll have to modify the rest a bit.

Examples (click to show)


Ok, so, got it? Easy, isn't it? If you're having a hard time understanding it, try to re-read it or let me know. Look at Pokemon and try to classify them. Not all of the Pokemon will fit - this is a very simplistic view. Pokemon might have their stats much more even - like Arceus, Glalie, Ditto or even Kingdra - those are more well-rounded and again, depends on how you want to use them. They can lean more offensive or defensive, but will always be a little bit of both.

2. Natures
Let's talk Natures next.
Natures are nowhere near as intimidating as they might seem. They do a very simple thing - they raise one stat and lower another, both by 10%. They can thus be very beneficial to a Pokemon if they are correct. Five of the stats a Pokemon have can be affected by Nature (all except HP). As such, there is a total of 25, and they are:



If a Pokemon has an Adamant nature, for example, it's Attack will be raised by 10% and it's Special Attack will be lowered by 10%. A Bold Pokemon will have its Defense raised by 10% and its Attack lowered by 10%. The five neutral Natures - Hardy, Serious, Bashful, Quirky, and Docile - do not modify stats in any way. And that is all there is to it, really!
The question is, though - which Nature will the best for my Pokemon? We've seen that each Pokemon has different stats and thus needs different accomodation to make it pop. When choosing the right Nature, we want to accentuate the important stats and hinder the stats that are... not so important. As a side-note, unless absolutely necessary, the Natures that lower the defenses are almost never good. There is usually no reason for your Pokemon to take harder hits, so why should it! REMEMBER THOUGH, please, a good Nature is fairly hard to come by on GPX unless you use Influence Power. Do not be afraid to use Natures that are not ideal. Definitely give the Pokemon a shot, even if it is not perfect! You can replace it when you find a better one. In core games, a good Nature is much easier to obtain.

a) Offensive
Offensive Pokemon, as we've seen, have high offensive stats. Let's look at Alakazam again. It's highest stats are Special Attack and Speed and we want those to pop. On othe other hand, Alakazam will defenitely not be using its Attack, which is its second lowest stat. The ideal natures for it then would either be Modest (+SpA, -Att) or Timid (+Spd, -Att).
Modest Nature would raise its Special Attack, meaning it would hit harder. On the other hand, Timid Nature would raise the Speed, meaning it would be able to outspeed more opponents. It now becomes a question of which one you prefer to use. As Alakazam has an already high Speed and will outspeed almost everything, I would personally go for the Modest Nature. You can, however, use either of them. Also remember that the Choice Items exist - you can accentuate the other stat with a Choice Item (for a trade-off of only using one attack, which offensive Pokemon usually do anyway).

b) Defensive
Defensive Pokemon are slightly more complicated in this sense. You can do two things: either improve the defenses and make them absurdly high, or you can just go for the attack raising natures instead, to make sure your defensive Pokemon can take the opponent down. I will use Clefable as an example here:

Clefable has a good Special Defense and Special Attack. On the other hand, its lowest stats are Attack and Speed. We have several options to use here - we can use Modest (+SpA, -Att) or Calm (+SpD, -Att) Natures, but we can also use Sassy (+SpD, -Spd) or Quiet (+SpA, -Spd) Natures. This again depends on how we want to utilize Clefable - or what we can get our hands on in the Safari. You can also take into consideration its weaknesses and resistances. Clefable is weak to Poison and Steel types (Steel is often Physical) and resists Bug, Dark and Fighting (Fighting is also a mostly Physical type). You can then go for a Defense raising Nature instead - Bold (+Def, -Att) or Relaxed (+Def, -Spd). Remember that Speed might still come into play, but it is not all that often for it to matter much.

c) Offensive mixed
For mixed offensive Pokemon, this is a bit "more difficult". Or, it actually becomes somewhat simple because of the restrictions.
If a mixed offensive Pokemon (think Lucario) is used as just Physical or just Special, you can refer to Offensive group above. But if you want to keep it truly mixed and make use of both Attack and Special Attack, then you don't want to lower either of them, but you don't want to lower the defenses either. The options then become
- lower Speed in favor of one of the other stats (usually attack stats)
- use a completely neutral Nature (Hardy, Serious, Bashful, Quirky or Docile), which don't modify stats at all
- trade off the boost of one attack for the other, but you have to be aware which of the attack is better

Examples (click to show)


You got that? Does it make sense? Good. IVs time!

3. IVs
IVs, also known as Individual values, are randomly selected values ranging from 0 to 31 that further modify your stats. In the last level bracket, 76-100, a difference of 1 in IVs adds 1 point to your stat. Here are the IVs of my Krookodile:

If its Defense IV was 24, its Defense would be 195, and so on. The maximum value for each IV is 31, meaning their total sum is 186. You can use the Vitamins to raise the IVs of your Pokemon (a maximum of 6 Vitamins per Pokemon). Again, REMEMBER THOUGH, good IVs are hard to come by on GPX. It is not always necessary to have THE BEST IVs that you can, but they will defeinitely help. Use what you can! And replace it when you get something better.

Besides that, if you know the good Nature, the IVs mostly follow suit. You want to accentuate the positives - so for example the Speed and Special Attack of an Alakazam. However, if possible, you always want the best defensive IVs you can get. If never hurts to have higher defensive stats (HP, Defense and Special Defense). It might help your Pokemon live a few more hits!

The question then becomes - when I have two Pokemon of the same species, which one has better IVs? And this question often never has a good answer. Unless all stats but one are better, it is very hard to tell. The difference of just a few points is usually barely noticeable (although it can make the difference), so it's hard to judge "what is better". For offensive Pokemon, look for the best offensive IVs and for defensive Pokemon, look for the best defensive IVs. Don't forget - all Pokemon attack and all Pokemon take hits, so don't focus on just those that they are good at.

Compare these 4 Charizard, for example:
Charizard IVs (click to show)

They are very similar to one another, but I would personally pick out the Timid one (last) because it makes full use of its Special Attack and Speed and while its defenses are not the best, it has the highest HP so compensate for that. This is often about priorities and you need to decide what matters the most to you.

Are IVs more important than Nature?
This is a good question. When you think about it, most Pokemon at level 100 will have stats of around 220-350. As stated above, IVs of 0 and 31 make a difference of 31 points. A beneficial Nature will raise the stat by 10%, which means around 22-35 points. This means that they are somewhat equivalent - if you are deciding between 15 IVs+Neutral Nature or 10 IVs+Beneficial Nature, definitely go for 10+Beneficial (unless it hinders another important stat).

4. Items
Do not forget, that we have items on GPX+ as well. Sam has mentioned this in his guide (go read that!), but I want to reiterate it again, because items make a tremendous difference! There are 4 types of items;
- Gems - Gems offer more coverage for your Pokemon, allowing them to use attacks that are not of their own type.
- Leftovers - Leftovers recover a small amount of HP at the end of each turn. Very good for Defensive Pokemon.
- Quick Claw - Occasionally allows the user to strike first, even if it's slower. Can be handy for Defensive/slower Pokemon.
- Choice items - Choice Band (boosts Attack), Choice Specs (boosts Special Attack) and Choice Scarf (boosts Speed) are items that give a 50% stat boost in exchange for only being able to use one attack. These are great to make offensive Pokemon even more deadly!

These items can make all the difference between a win and a loss. Definitely use them and play around with them!

5. Picking the right Pokemon & teambuilding
This topic is always a bit iffy, because there is no one correct way to build a team or how to pick a Pokemon to use for a team. Let's try to find some ways to think about it, though.
For Battle Subway and reaching higher streaks, you need to have the "right" Pokemon. Besides good IVs and Natures, their stats also matter greatly, especially depending on what the team should be like. Some people prefer more fragile attackers, some prefer more bulkier Pokemon that would not be afraid to take a hit. This depends on your playstyle, but you need to be aware of each Pokemon's advantages and disadvantages to make sure they work together as a team, and are not just 6 stand-alone Pokemon. They also need to be able to hit the opponent no matter what comes their way.

Picking the right Pokemon
When choosing Pokemon, always check their stats. Pokemon like Luvdisc and Smeargle with ridiculous Speed are cool and fun, but are they going to do well in the Battle Subway, if they can barely take a hit or attack their opponent? Probably not. Same for Shuckle - it has ridiculous defenses, but won't be able to dish out any damage.
You also need to be aware of the typing of your Pokemon, to cover for it later. Do not be afraid of weaknesses - it might be harder to switch the Pokemon in, but if the opponent has a Pokemon you are weak to, you can switch to something else. Having more weaknesses is not necessarily a bad thing.
Also, be aware that Mega Pokemon have higher stats than other Pokemon (650 compared to 600 base stat total) and are not limited in number, so go and make use of that.

Since GPX is very simplistic, certain Pokemon are more fitting than others. Persian has a great Speed, but does not have much offensive power to make use of it. Toxapex, similarly, has great defenses, but its attacks might not be enough to do much damage. This does not mean the Pokemon are not usable at all - but they might need a bit more support and accomodation from the rest of your team, but they can also use buffing moves to raise their attacks or defenses. Keep it in mind and definitely ALWAYS experiment - some Pokemon might come and surprise you when you try to use them! Dugtrio has a great Attack and Speed and while its Alolan counterpart is a bit slower, its Attack is great plus it has a Steel typing, which is very good defensively. Do not be afraid to try new things and play around with them.

Also be aware of the fact, that mono-type Pokemon (e.g. Alakazam, Manectric, Dugtrio) have access to a Weak+Strong move of their type, whereas dual-type Pokemon (e.g. Charizard, Togekiss, Slowking) only have accesss to the Weak moves of both their types. You can make use of this to choose whether they should be attackers (using their Strong moves to dish out powerful attacks) or just there for coverage/defensive roles.

Teambuilding
When making a team, some users prefer to have "a core" that can work mostly by itself and have a couple of support Pokemon; others prefer several glass cannons and the rest to help with their weaknesses. This again depends on the playstyle.
It is not ideal to use one type too many times - both defensively and offensively. If you have all of the Pokemon of the same type, they might struggle if they are all weak to one opponent, and they might also not be able to defeat an opponent that resists their moves. Do you remember Gym Leader fights in the core games?

Defensive coverage
It is important to think about your Pokemon's (and team's) weaknesses and come up with ways to cover them. Think about Azumarill - a Water/Fairy Pokemon. It is weak to Poison, Grass and Electric types. All of those are covered by Ferrothorn - who, in turn, is weak to Fire and Fighting types, that Azumarill resists.
Ferrothorn can also create a couple with Charizard - who also resists both Fire and Fighting moves, while its weaknesses (Water, Electric, Rock) are all covered by Ferrothorn.
I like to use this site myself to check which types are covered in my team defensively. If you have 2 Pokemon weak to a certain type, it is good to also have 2 Pokemon that resist that type. It does not have to be exactly balanced, but it is good to have multiple defensive responses to the opponent's Pokemon. (Also remember that the page uses core games' type effectiveness chart and also considers Abilities, such as Levitate, so it might not be 100% accurate.)

Offensive coverage
On the other hand, it's nice when a team can defend itself - but what about attacking? It also needs to take the opponent down. So your team needs to be able to respond to all kinds of threats as well. Besides regular Pokemon, that you might be used to from the core games, GPX+ also offers many Novelty Pokemon that have completely new typings and they might also be harder to counter, since you are not familiar with them. If you don't know the typing of your opponent, always make sure to click on it and it'll show you the typing in the Battle Tower!
When it comes to offensive coverage, I like to use this site. On the right side, choose Moveset Coverage Mode to see which type combinations you can or cannot hit super-effectively to easily get rid of them. This tool only allows 8 types to check though, so you might need to play around with it a bit to see the full coverage.
You can also use this tool that lets you see how many Pokemon you can hit super-effectively. This only includes Pokemon from the core games, though, and does not show unused type combinations.
(Again, both of those tools use core games' type effectiveness charts.)

EDIT 8/Aug/2021: Another tool has come up in the Discord and it is this one. It shows both offensive and defensive coverage of selected types in a simple way, which is great. It also has a Pokedex, which can be good for looking up Pokemon and their stats. Be aware, though, that GPX has a slightly different type chart (refer to the Help page) and the stats are boosted so they're essentially equal to one another (refer to the Wiki).

Teambuilding example (click to show)


6. Battling in the Battle Subways
This section will have a few notes on how to use the Battle Subway. Notes that might make the battling a lot more comfortable for you that you might not know about.
The AI will try to do the most comfortable and sensible thing, so it is fairly predictable. You can use this to your advantage in several ways.

a) Switching
If the AI is threatened by your Pokemon, it will very often try to switch. It should be similar for you - try to switch to a Pokemon that will resist the move the best. It is better to take a resisted hit and do a neutral hit, than to take a neutral hit and do a neutral hit. Try to minimize the damage taken. Sure I can use a Snorlax to fight a Haxorus - but I would much rather use a Ferrothorn to do that, because it resists the Dragon-type moves.
It would be similar to super-effective moves - if your Pokemon is not weak to the opponent, switch in a Pokemon that can do more damage to it. Sure my Clefable can take an opponent Gliscor down - but it will take much more damage, than if I switch into Gyarados, who Gliscor is weak to.
Don't try to keep your Pokemon in no matter what and don't be afraid to switch.

Also as a note for switching - the AI does not switch when its HP is in red. You can use that to your advantage to switch in something better or to take it down.

b) Predictions
This is related to switching, but is going one step further. Imagine the opponent has a Toxicroak out and I have a Clefable out. Normally, I would probably switch into Mega Charizard Y (because it is not weak to Toxicroak and can deal super-effective Flying-type damage to it). However, Toxicroak will try to use Poison-type move to hit my Clefable (because it is super-effective) rather than the Fighting-type move (which Clefable resists). I can thus switch in Alolan Dugtrio - because it will resist the Poison-type move and will be able to take down the Toxicroak immediately next turn with a Ground-type move. It is also much more powerful than the Mega Charizard Y I have, so it potentially has a bigger offensive power.
These predictions might be a lot tougher to make, so don't worry about them too much. It just might make a switch-fight much easier and faster, if you can guess what the opponent is going to do and use it to your advantage.

c) Sacrifices
Generally, I recommend trying to keep all of your Pokemon alive. When you have no response to the opponent's Pokemon, it will take your team down and you're done for. However... if things are tough and your Pokemon are low on health, it might be impossible to switch a Pokemon in, because it would faint. In such case, it might be a good to consider sacrificing one of your Pokemon. If you do that, then your next Pokemon gets a free switch-in without taking damage. This tactic might be especially useful to switch in your more frail Pokemon (Glass Cannons, usually).

d) Items
Definitely use Items. They make a big difference. A Choice Band can quickly turn a two-hit KO (2HKO) into a one-shot, so they are absolutely worth it. And if you're afraid of only using one move - Leftovers never hurt anyone! (On the contrary, they heal you at the end of the turn.) The items might make a lot of battles much easier or more comfortable.

------------

Ok, I think that is it for now! I hope this makes sense and that you learned something new. If not, let me know, ask questions, and I can expand/shorten this to make it easier to read or explaing stuff more clearly.

Happy battling!

This post has been edited by Kingis: Aug 8 2021, 03:23 AM


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Kingis
post Sep 3 2020, 03:55 PM
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I have edited the post slightly + added a Team building example on how I'd personally build a team.


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Ness 64
post Sep 26 2020, 11:46 AM
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I'd like to note a few things that could be added to this guide, but before I do...
-----
QUOTE
When choosing Pokemon, always check their stats. Pokemon like Luvdisc and Smeargle with ridiculous Speed are cool and fun, but are they going to do well in the Battle Subway, if they can barely take a hit or attack their opponent? Probably not. Same for Shuckle - it has ridiculous defenses, but won't be able to dish out any damage.


This guy begs to differ. I'll elaborate on this for a bit. Let's take a look at Smeargle's stats again:
132 HP, 48 Atk, 84 Def, 48 Sp. Atk, 108 Sp. Def, 180 Speed

I built him with the triple buff set (Tackle, Swords Dance, Iron Defense and Amnesia), and he's so fast that only Ninjask outspeeds and Deoxys-S speed ties (everything else in the game needs a buff or a Scarf to outspeed), so he's fast enough to pull at least one buff before he takes a hit, which he actually can take well because of the base 132 HP (just over 400 HP at Level 100, which some tanks would kill to have). Once it's set (which isn't too hard to do), he can survive nearly everything the Subway can throw at him (even some Fighting moves depending on who's dishing them out), and combined with only having Fighting for a weakness, neutral hits are doing some damage, but it's never enough to take it out in one hit or two without something to make those hits stronger.
Its only real problem is what you said, that we could guess from looking at its stats: Its attacking stats are horrible. You need a +4 or +6 just to do decent damage (this one has 488 Attack at +6, which most reliable sweepers can easily pass with just a +2 or a Choice item), and the Normal type means only Ghosts take extra damage, so it feels like you're bashing stuff with a spoon (you CAN beat them, though). Defensive Steel types in particular stop this guy cold (it literally can't kill them if they have enough Defense), and it might have issues with certain Rock types as well (you know, Normal resist + big enough defense), but that just means something else in your team should deal with them.
Is it suboptimal? Maybe. Does it work on the Subway? I literally won battles before because of this guy tanking something that could cause issues to the rest of my team, and even 488 Attack is enough to take a lot of stuff out given enough turns. It's a core part of my team, which otherwise have more viable pokémon, some of which you mentioned here.

I'd make a case for Shuckle as well, although I haven't used it and it is a more extreme case. The defenses are good enough that you NEED strong hits to take it out quickly (be it from strong moves or SE hits), otherwise it's a potential momentum drain. It does seem like it has many issues to overcome, but I could see it working with a proper strategy backing it (at least against the NPCs).
-----
Onto the actual guide, though, there's something that feels obvious when stated out, but it's easy to miss, so you could mention it in the IV part: Check how the IV total is like when you remove the attacking stat(s) you won't use. I made a few notes on my profile's journal for this (although they could use an update or two), but this is the basic idea: Sometimes, something with a higher IV total is actually worse because most of the difference is on a wasted stat. One of the stats literally won't matter unless you're doing a mixed set (which imo is harder to do well and is kinda the source of several bad Subway NPC sets because of the move restrictions GPX uses), so why should we consider it when comparing which pokémon is better?
And this isn't even taking natures into play. Using your own Charizards as an example:
QUOTE
Charizard 1 (Modest): 7/x/26/7/31/27 = 98
Charizard 2 (Relaxed): 13/x/30/26/24/14 = 107
Charizard 3 (Bold): 7/x/9/29/27/23 = 95
Charizard 4 (Timid): 22/x/13/24/13/22 = 94

What we can take from this is that your second Charizard got screwed over by its nature. If it was Modest or Timid, it could be about as good as the Charizard you personally picked. Charizard #4 also got pretty balanced IVs overall, despite having an IV total I'd consider on the lower/mid end (but that's something my journal notes elaborate more on, so I'll drop it here). It's something easily seen here, but it's worth repeating: In the end, picking a good pokémon is about how the IVs are distributed just as much as it is about the nature.

Finally, something pretty important to know for anything that uses a Gem. Contrary what I've seen Sam (I think) saying before, STAB does exist on GPX. I ran a few test battles with a friend of mine to check this at one point, and after enough battles, we found that non-STAB hits consistently dealt less damage than STAB ones, in situations where they should do the same amounts of damage if STAB didn't exist (i.e. "the target takes neutral damage from both the STAB and the non-STAB move, so why is it taking less from the latter?").

But we FINALLY have another good Subway guide that covers what was missing. Thank you!


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Kingis
post Sep 26 2020, 06:10 PM
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Thank you for the wonderful addition, Ness.

Pokemon with stats like Smeargle can be used, but since it requires setup, it might just be easier - especially for beginners - to use other stuff instead. Buff moves are an amazing help in general, but since you lose them upon switching, it might not always be viable. If a Steel type switches into your Smeargle, it takes a few hits and goes down before it sets up, doesn't it? Then again, NPCs aren't all that amazing at doing great switch-ins sometimes. A big advantage of Smeargle is that it can easily Haze opponents because of it Speed (like you said).

Thanks for the addition of IVs - that is absoljtely true but even then, with these and their spreads, it's a bit tough to compare still. Do I want more Special Attack or Defense? It's tough to make the right call, but what you said definitely makes it a bit easier to judge.

As for "what was missing" - this started out as something completely different but turned into this huge guide, which is why it's a bit messy. I am thinking of making a revamp and making an actual Teambuilding guide - in the order you should be doing it in, i.e. choosing Pokemon, fonding and understanding IVs, then moves and items (whoch is not covered here at all). Originally wanted just Natures/IVs but stuff just kept coming up and I didn't wanna omit any of it...

But it means a lot that you think it's good so thanks. love.gif


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Ness 64
post Sep 26 2020, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE
Pokemon with stats like Smeargle can be used, but since it requires setup, it might just be easier - especially for beginners - to use other stuff instead. Buff moves are an amazing help in general, but since you lose them upon switching, it might not always be viable.

Half my team is designed around buffing (Smeargle included) and the other half is designed around supporting them when they can't stay. If something threatens a pokémon enough that it can't stay in battle for that long, someone else in the team should be able to take care of that pokémon (or at least force it out). When all such threats are out of the game, set up to my heart's content and sweep everything. And as most mons that use buff setts can take hits even by default, they're good at dealing chip damage over time if they aren't expecting to stay for long until something particularly threatening is dealt with (more on this below).
There may be better ways of playing and my team still got some issues with certain stuff, but this game plan worked well enough and I got used to it Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

QUOTE
A big advantage of Smeargle is that it can easily Haze opponents because of it Speed (like you said).

This was actually the reason I originally wanted to use a Smeargle. I lost to something that outsped my entire team and swept it after Swords Dance buffs, so I wanted something able to wipe boosts reliably. Then I thought "wait, the HP and SpDef sound good, what if I tried to tank with it instead?" and it worked surprisingly well, so it stayed that way. The attack seriously sucks, but it can be worked around like other common team issues.

QUOTE
If a Steel type switches into your Smeargle, it takes a few hits and goes down before it sets up, doesn't it? Then again, NPCs aren't all that amazing at doing great switch-ins sometimes.

Like this. Smeargle can take a hit from most Steel types just like it does for everything else that's not Fighting, the real problem is that it can't do much back (if anything).
As Steel types are threatening, it means that they must be taken care of earlier. It can actually work to my advantage to some extent; if Steels are such an easy answer, it means the AI can be baited into using them more often, and this can be played around. For example, I can bring Azumarill out to deal with most Steels (or Charizard if it's a Ferrothorn) as they both deal neutral to each other but Azumarill can usually tank them harder, and if they get scared out, I do chip damage and the AI gets stuck in a "mini-loop": I bring Smeargle again, they bring the Steel while I hit them (or buff, sometimes it can help in getting health back), I bring the Steel counter, do chip damage on their next switch, etc. The chip damage over time means something will get taken down eventually, and then the rest gets picked apart from there. I just gotta be careful in doing more chip damage than the AI does, of course.

QUOTE
Thanks for the addition of IVs - that is absoljtely true but even then, with these and their spreads, it's a bit tough to compare still. Do I want more Special Attack or Defense? It's tough to make the right call, but what you said definitely makes it a bit easier to judge.

Like the guide stated, it depends on the pokémon. For Charizard, there are valid reasons for using both of them (if that other one had the right nature, that is). The Timid one can potentially outspeed stuff that the Relaxed one (if it was Modest or even Timid) can't, but that Relaxed Zard hits a little harder and can take a hit better even with the hypothetical neutral Defense (although the smaller HP could even it out a bit). Charizard Y is a good sweeper, but it also got a nice set of resistances, so it can afford a few resisted hits from switch-ins. If the Timid one finds itself forced to do that too often, trying the one with more defense could be a good idea. Conversely, if that finds itself outsped too often, the Timid one could be better to avoid some of it.
As an aside, the Safari and shiny hunts are good ways to find a pokémon with good IVs. It's usually easier to get lucky with IVs/nature than it is to find a shiny, and you'd be surprised with the good stuff people throw out sometimes.

QUOTE
As for "what was missing" - this started out as something completely different but turned into this huge guide, which is why it's a bit messy. I am thinking of making a revamp and making an actual Teambuilding guide - in the order you should be doing it in, i.e. choosing Pokemon, fonding and understanding IVs, then moves and items (whoch is not covered here at all). Originally wanted just Natures/IVs but stuff just kept coming up and I didn't wanna omit any of it...

While Sam's guide is good enough for a starting reference, there are some things that guide doesn't cover, and your guide basically covers nearly everything on that front. At the very least, this guide has some of the advice I've given to other people before.
There isn't one guide I'd recommend over the other, I'd recommend reading both of them, and while there may be room for improvements (like the moves), that says enough about how good this one is.

Again, thank you. This should make things a lot easier in introducing Subway strategies to newcomers.


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