[X] My Assistant

[Lord Raven]

you still haven't responded to my point of if the husband wants the abortion but the woman doesn't; who's say is worth more? the one who follows your beliefs (the woman) or the one who doesn't (the man)? I mean, if the man is to have equal say...


Furthermore, to be fair, condoms are available at the front desk of most dorms for free, but birth control pills do require money yeah

[Reyo]

you still haven't responded to my point of if the husband wants the abortion but the woman doesn't; who's say is worth more? the one who follows your beliefs (the woman) or the one who doesn't (the man)? I mean, if the man is to have equal say...


Furthermore, to be fair, condoms are available at the front desk of most dorms for free, but birth control pills do require money yeah

That's because when I say I'm done discussing with someone, I mean it.

[Dmitri]

that's also because you can't counter the point

[Reyo]

that's also because you can't counter the point

You'll forget that he himself said he was done conversing with me, and that most of his argument consisted of him yelling at me for intentionally twisting all of his arguments. If you're going to do the same, then I'll just do the same with you. This is supposed to be a debate forum, not "team up and insult the opposition until they're annoyed enough to leave." Now, tell me again how I'm clouded by my personal beliefs?

Yeah I don't care because whatever you say, you're putting your personal beliefs above your actual opinion(I can't word things, don't take that literally.). IT SEEMS like you don't want abortion because you don't approve of sex. IT SEEMS like you'd rather have everyone in the entire world abstain. Sorry, but if birth control can't be gotten without spending a pretty significant amount of money, why should people spend time on it? You say you want birth control to be more available, but it's likely not happening anytime soon. I'm saying no matter what the couple did, birth control or not, they or she can choose to abort the baby. If the husband isn't okay with that, he can have his own fucking babies with someone else. Still woman's choice. If you want to take away that choice to the woman then there is obviously something wrong with your reasoning, considering you go on and on about that civil rights shit and if a husband wants a baby than the woman has no say in it.

I'm putting my own beliefs over my opinion? I'm not making assumptions about your viewpoint, you are of mine, and what's more is instead of approaching it with the possibility that you may have misconstrued what I was trying to say, you went ahead and responded as though that was what I said. I know that it's just what it seems, but an argument can easily be misinterpreted, I know full well that it's possible for me to miss-word my argument and make it seem like I'm saying something else, which is why I'm more than willing to explain myself if I'm just asked to.

Now, my "personal beliefs" are ones of apathy more than anything. Yes, I'm saying that a couple might need to take responsibility if they end up pregnant from unprotected sex when birth control wasn't even a part of the mix, but I also said that I'd really only go as far as judging the heck out of them as responsible adults. If they wanted to avoid pregnancy, there are a number of contraceptive possibilities out there. "But it's expensive!" Then don't have sex. That's not me punishing them for being poor, or wanting sex, or even me hating sex. If you want to do something, but can't afford it, you don't do it. That's something my Dad taught me. If you do that something anyway, and bad things happen, you should take responsibility. That's something else my Dad taught me.

PS, "If the husband isn't okay with that, he can have his own fucking babies with someone else."
It seems like you're more emotionally invested in this argument than I am. Telling the father that he can go to hell if he doesn't agree with his wife is pretty dire, don't you think? Such a thing tells me the two of them weren't supposed to be together anyway (given that marriage is "'till death do us part", not "'till the first complication in the marriage do us part".)

[Dmitri]

PS, "If the husband isn't okay with that, he can have his own fucking babies with someone else."
It seems like you're more emotionally invested in this argument than I am. Telling the father that he can go to hell if he doesn't agree with his wife is pretty dire, don't you think? Such a thing tells me the two of them weren't supposed to be together anyway (given that marriage is "'till death do us part", not "'till the first complication in the marriage do us part".)

i never said he should go to hell
i said he should have babies with someone else
hell yes, i'm emotionally invested in this. if i got fucking preg and someone said i couldn't abort the baby, heads are going to roll, i promise you.
Well, you're implying they were married before they had sex :y

I don't really see how anything else in your post is worth replying to.
sorry bro.

This post has been edited by Hexxy: May 8 2012, 03:07 PM

[Lord Raven]

You'll forget that he himself said he was done conversing with me, and that most of his argument consisted of him yelling at me for intentionally twisting all of his arguments. If you're going to do the same, then I'll just do the same with you. This is supposed to be a debate forum, not "team up and insult the opposition until they're annoyed enough to leave." Now, tell me again how I'm clouded by my personal beliefs?

ps that was most of my argument because most of what you did was twist my words to begin with

lol you cant take criticism in stride when its relevant and called for. you know there are people who have quit this forum because of you, right, and the fact that i took your side when it came to how you expressed yourself? and you know how much the current me would've fucking chewed out the younger me over taking your side?

i'd rather that not happen again. you really seem to be under the impression that my criticisms came out of nowhere, when in reality there is now a point where i'm just sick of hearing you talk. I'm not telling you to leave, I'm telling you to straighten up, because I'm not going to have any degree of friendly tone if I ever have a discussion with you. And I highly doubt I'm alone in this.

[Reyo]

PS, "If the husband isn't okay with that, he can have his own fucking babies with someone else."
It seems like you're more emotionally invested in this argument than I am. Telling the father that he can go to hell if he doesn't agree with his wife is pretty dire, don't you think? Such a thing tells me the two of them weren't supposed to be together anyway (given that marriage is "'till death do us part", not "'till the first complication in the marriage do us part".)

i never said he should go to hell
i said he should have babies with someone else
hell yes, i'm emotionally invested in this. if i got fucking preg and someone said i couldn't abort the baby, heads are going to roll, i promise you.
Well, you're implying they were married before they had sex :y

I don't really see how anything else in your post is worth replying to.
sorry bro.

No, you never physically said that he could "go to hell", but that's a bit of a nit-picky point to make given I was just paraphrasing what you said. It's still pretty dire to say that the two need to split up just because the husband wants to keep the baby and the wife doesn't. That is what you're saying, correct? I wouldn't want to "twist your words".

And it's not really "you can't have an abortion", it's more "You really shouldn't have an abortion." I've given my reasons for why.

You'll forget that he himself said he was done conversing with me, and that most of his argument consisted of him yelling at me for intentionally twisting all of his arguments. If you're going to do the same, then I'll just do the same with you. This is supposed to be a debate forum, not "team up and insult the opposition until they're annoyed enough to leave." Now, tell me again how I'm clouded by my personal beliefs?

ps that was most of my argument because most of what you did was twist my words to begin with

lol you cant take criticism in stride when its relevant and called for. you know there are people who have quit this forum because of you, right, and the fact that i took your side when it came to how you expressed yourself? and you know how much the current me would've fucking chewed out the younger me over taking your side?

i'd rather that not happen again. you really seem to be under the impression that my criticisms came out of nowhere, when in reality there is now a point where i'm just sick of hearing you talk. I'm not telling you to leave, I'm telling you to straighten up, because I'm not going to have any degree of friendly tone if I ever have a discussion with you. And I highly doubt I'm alone in this.

Could you please stop? It's founded in the debate forum rules that anyone's allowed to stop debating with someone at any point they want. I know you're only trying to "make a point", but you're not arguing the point anymore. You're insulting various aspects of my character which I find to be harassment.

EDIT: Tell you what, I'll just completely remove myself from the conversation entirely. I remember when the two of us would be able to converse on this topic without risk of anyone's character being insulted, or anyone's words being "twisted". Not sure what the hell happened in those "two years" that you "evolved" as a person, but seriously, you need to follow your own advice. You two can declare yourselves the "victors" of the conversation if you want, but I'm leaving because I seriously don't have to take any of these shenanigans. Good to know you're as professional as ever.

This post has been edited by Reyo: May 8 2012, 07:40 PM

[Dmitri]

PS, "If the husband isn't okay with that, he can have his own fucking babies with someone else."
It seems like you're more emotionally invested in this argument than I am. Telling the father that he can go to hell if he doesn't agree with his wife is pretty dire, don't you think? Such a thing tells me the two of them weren't supposed to be together anyway (given that marriage is "'till death do us part", not "'till the first complication in the marriage do us part".)

i never said he should go to hell
i said he should have babies with someone else
hell yes, i'm emotionally invested in this. if i got fucking preg and someone said i couldn't abort the baby, heads are going to roll, i promise you.
Well, you're implying they were married before they had sex :y

I don't really see how anything else in your post is worth replying to.
sorry bro.

No, you never physically said that he could "go to hell", but that's a bit of a nit-picky point to make given I was just paraphrasing what you said. It's still pretty dire to say that the two need to split up just because the husband wants to keep the baby and the wife doesn't. That is what you're saying, correct? I wouldn't want to "twist your words".

And it's not really "you can't have an abortion", it's more "You really shouldn't have an abortion." I've given my reasons for why.

that is incredibly hypocritical, since you were nitpicking with people not quoting exactly their points :T
It's dire but it's still kindof reasonable
I wouldn't want to be married to a guy who wouldn't let me do what I wanted with my body

actually, it's exactly "you can't have an abortion"
but you should still have a fucking choice to have an abortion, no matter what

[north star mouse]

On any forum i always end up wandering into an abortion debate because i have strong believes in it.

Right well first of i could never live with myself if i did get an abortion, i could never do it even if i were raped (though if i am in the situation maybe i would go threw with it i wouldn't know unless in the situation.)

I think those women who use abortion as a birth control are idiots, there is a reason for so many contraceptives so you don't end up in this situation.

I think i saw somewhere about if the father wants you to abort and mother doesn't?
my opinion here is if the women cannot physical go threw an abortion i mean it's something tragic, painful, heartache. The mothers who feel they would be able to cope with a child then the father should just be left alone and not included in the child's life, no one should feel they need an abortion. The man is not going threw the abortion they do not feel the pain, heartache, and have to live with it forever because they do not want it anyway.

If the parents cannot afford to have a baby then yes abort or adopt is the way forward why do people want more neglected children in care homes and depressed, yes some can get lucky but half of them are miserable all the way threw childhood.

If you can go threw with an abortion all the suffering after wards, when you have kids in future and think wow that baby i aborted could of been this child ect that is why i couldn't get one, i am only 20 two PLANNED children and i think about the one i miscarried every day that they could of been just like my children here with me now.

People just need to be more careful about having intercourse it isn't all plain sailing, i find the implanon the best thing ive had lasts 3years no messing about, like 0.01% rate of pregnancies.

This post has been edited by Dreams91: May 17 2012, 10:20 AM

[Dmitri]

Contraceptives fail. Condoms break, birth control is rather pricey.

It's not that the person can't go through(not threw) with abortion, it's just that we're mostly debating on how much of a say the father deserves. If a woman wants an abortion, she should be able to get one, and the husband shouldn't be able to have 51+% of the vote.

[FXLDarkShadowRNR]

ummmm.......what`?

[The Grouch]

Even if someone was to be pro-life or pro-choice, the answer should be the same. If you outlaw abortion, people are going to go off and get ones anyway, in far more dangerous environments like dirty back alleys or in one's bathroom using dangerous, unsafe instruments from someone who has had no professional practice. If you use something like a coat hanger, not only does it simply mutilate the fetus, it puts the would-be mother in danger as well, and people would have a 40 - 50% chance of dying. Which is more important, the mother who is able to support herself and help the society in some way by simply performing her job, or the fetus who will have to wait 18 years until it will be able to sustain itself and will possibly grow up in an even worse economy and world than we are in today?

But oh wait, our orphanages aren't full yet, how foolish of me...

[Letan]

ummmm.......what`?

DarkShadow, if you don't have anything to contribute to the topic, please don't bother posting. It's considered spam.

[IcePrincess]

I completely agree with Deadchu, if you outlaw abortion, you would just fall back a couple of deccenia where women couldn't have a baby anymore because of illegal abortion. Or even worse, they could die because of infection.

I think the woman has nearly 100% of the vote whether or not she should get an abortion, because it is her body that she would put through a lot, and it affects her life probably a bit more, because the man can choose to have nothing to do with the baby.

[ImperialWhiteKni...]

Continued from here.

I'm pro-choice cause I believe in freedom of choice yadda yadda yadda i don't give a shit enough anymore to give the full reasoning behind my viewpoint


Note: If anyone is doing anything like what Drew was doing in the previous thread -- ie, saying controversial things and ignoring all points directed to them while only bringing up repeated arguments of their own -- they will be warned 10% IMMEDIATELY. There are no strict guidelines to this, but if someone is saying something to you, don't just ignore them and go on your own tangent; that's just fucking rude and disrespectful. They gave you the time to respond to your post, you should honor them with the same time and respect they gave you. This applies to pro-choicers, in fact probably moreso because there are more of you out there.

Abortion should be outlawed except to save the mother’s life or in case of rape or incest.

While we stress the need for a moral and Christian lifestyle, we applaud those women who choose to give life when faced with an unplanned pregnancy. Furthermore, we recognize a woman’s right to self-defense. While occurances are rare, a woman should not be forced to carry a rapist’s seed to fruition.

[NeonEspeon]

Why is it that a woman can be accepted to have an abortion for only those reasons? It'll be punishing the mother and the baby if she was forced to go through an unwanted pregnancy. I'll be damned if people tell me I can't do what I want with my body.

Not everyone is Christian (and are happy that way). So most of us don't need that "lifestyle".

[Disgracik]

I'm against it, but, sometimes there is no other way... Especially when mother is badly ill, and this can have really bad influence on child this is good way to solve the problem, 'cause if child will be born with some mental/health problems it'll suffer all its life and mother also... So, there are situations in which there is no other way out...

[SecondhandLove]

I believe it is 100% the woman's choice. Especially in the case of rape or illness. I am survivor of sexual assault myself, and I did indeed become pregnant. I did not receive an abortion but took matters into my own hands an consequently had a miscarriage and damaged my body quite a bit. Anyways, I don't want anyone to have to go through that. Especially not a scared little girl who just had there entire life and innocence taken away from them. Also if there is a problem with the child and/or mother that can be life threatening, I definitely think it should be allowed.

I personally don't think it is right for abortion to be used in a sense as birth control. That being said, I still believe it is the woman's choice, regardless of the situation or how I feel about it.

[Sora the Pikachu]

I don't accept abortion, period. I don't care what any of you guys think, that is still a living child from the moment they're pregnant. Enough said.

[SecondhandLove]

Well, lets all take a minute to be thankful that 14 year olds can't pass laws then.