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Parental Dogma
jayrachi
post Feb 11 2013, 11:21 PM
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wat



So recently I've been seeing things like this and it jut fascinates me to no end how a parent can so readily say that they get to be their kid's worst nightmare because they love them. Because to me, that sounds like someone saying "I get to treat you like shit because I love you and that's how love works"

Except that's not how love works and it perplexes me how a parent could have such a terrible idea of how a functioning relationship works.

Why do you all suppose parents feel so entitled to ownership over another person despite the only qualification for having a child is also having functioning genitalia?

This post has been edited by Mister Blah: Feb 11 2013, 11:22 PM


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Aura Dynasty
post Feb 12 2013, 10:51 AM
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Yeah, that's creepy as a matter of fact... Also the part "when you understand this I'll know you're a responsible adult"... I mean, what if you never understand it? Not all kids are treated bad because their parents love them.

What of those parents that say they tried to raise their child but the child isn't even doing it like they want it to be? In behaviour science, a class I attend, they've taught use it's a syndrom called "Bottomless Pit - theory"; parents thinking their kids are pests because they aren't doing the things they've taught them or are trying to learn them so many times and still the kid won't listen, although it actually does.

Sure thing there are times parents have to be 'cruel' and such, that's how you learn to deal with the 'big bad outside world' when you're all grown up, but there's no need being the nightmare of your kids for real.

-said by a 17 year-old-


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jayrachi
post Feb 12 2013, 03:59 PM
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Well said, I think I'll look more into that theory. I've asked a lot of people this in my wonder, but I never really found the answer to it.

Haha, I'm 17 as well. Sometimes I feel like I have a better understanding of things than most adults, too.


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Aura Dynasty
post Feb 12 2013, 05:50 PM
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alrighty, I finally said something relevant and smart! Glad i'm not the only one with those thoughts, most of the times I see parents and their kids (wow, thats obvious) and think to myself i could do so much better although i'm just being 17.


--------------------
My body...
is made out of swords.
Iron is my blood
and glass is my heart.


I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated.
Not once have I retreated,
Nor once have I been understood.
Always alone....
On the hill of swords...
intoxicated by victory...


Thus, this life has no meaning...
This body...surely was...
Made out of blades.


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jayrachi
post Feb 12 2013, 06:40 PM
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Ah, I'd probably be a terrible parent. I'm too logic-minded and have a tough time understanding emotional things, haha.


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Aura Dynasty
post Feb 12 2013, 06:50 PM
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Well, I'd be the kind of parent that's too overprotective and thinks too hard on how a reaction could turn out to be... I'd give myself a head-ache and probably leave my child in the darkness about what it should do...

I hope I'm having a great partner when that ever happens -_-2.gif'

Poor kids, i'm already feeling sorry for them, having me as a mother no.gif


--------------------
My body...
is made out of swords.
Iron is my blood
and glass is my heart.


I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated.
Not once have I retreated,
Nor once have I been understood.
Always alone....
On the hill of swords...
intoxicated by victory...


Thus, this life has no meaning...
This body...surely was...
Made out of blades.


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Reapehify
post Feb 16 2013, 12:46 PM
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I had a 2000+ word reply to the both of you about why I agree and disagree. But I couldn't possibly rewrite that so I'll throw out some bullet points.

- You took the initial post out of context, it was an exaggeration.
- The post is actually pretty bad even as an exaggeration because it's 100% serious.
- It's the social-dialect of the babyboomers, my father is that way to me as well.
- I emancipated my parents and they disowned me, so I know a little of what I'm talking about.
- Most parents with that philosophy aren't worried about having a relationship, they're worried about having a child that's as good as them/better than they were. The parent-child bond is also different because of the perceived and inevitable self-sacrifice of doing things your offspring might actually "hate" you for.
- The person who wrote that post which sparked this thread is likely American and from the South.
- Ownership is one word, but it's not accurate. Having a child and protecting the child and teaching the child is a massive undertaking. It just clicks eventually. Take your favorite item, what would you do if it was stolen or broken? Now give it life. Now all those feelings are over something living, and you want to teach it right (your right), and protect it, and make it something you're proud of. Yeah, now it's kind of like the situation you don't understand, but not the same magnitude.

"Also the part "when you understand this I'll know you're a responsible adult"... I mean, what if you never understand it? Not all kids are treated bad because their parents love them."

And in particular, this part bugged me. You don't have to be mistreated to understand the difficult actions coming your way in the past that were foreshadowed in the future, because no matter who you are there will be a 'I understand' moment. It was said to me, and I will say it to my children, and they will say it to theirs. Not in those exact words, because the wording is absolutely wrong, but the essence of comprehension is there. It's like falling in love: you don't really understand until it really happens and it's taken away from you.

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jayrachi
post Feb 16 2013, 07:31 PM
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I can understand a parent being protective reasonably, of course, but the initial post, despite it sounding like an exaggeration, is something I've seen in quite a few parents lately. If you don't control your kids, they grow up to be vicious. No one wants that, but some people go too far. I think it is important to remember that people that are not 20 or above are humans and that they act like typical humans. A lot of adults seem to forget this.

Parents are role models. Flipping out and yelling and stalking are all learnable behaviours, don't you agree?


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Manah
post Feb 17 2013, 09:42 AM
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It's probably just me, but no, if someone says it that way, I'll understand it that way. I don't check everything for possible hidden meanings and try to find explanations what people might have meant. Exaggerations like that (if it even is one) make no sense to me. Reapehify, I agree with what you said in your post.....but I don't see much of that in the original statement. Why can't people just say what they mean? I just don't see a point in making pointless exaggerations that leave everyone else to figure out what the heck they actually want to say.


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The Unholy Diver
post Feb 20 2013, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE(Mister Blah @ Feb 11 2013, 08:21 PM) *

I really have to agree with everything said there. If you just baby your kid all their life, thats all they ever will be, just a kid, with absolutely no values whatsoever. True love is to want the best for somebody you love, and raising a kid just to be a kid is far from the best.
To be completely honest, real life is like hell pretty much. If you try to baby your kid their whole life, and spoil them, they tend not to do very well in the real world. Its like putting them in heaven all their life and then after 18 years throwing them into hell pretty much. Its pretty much just like abandonment too, just letting something you love be thrown in a world s/he couldnt possably survive.
Sadly, too many parents fail to see this. The parents that put being a "friend" first are only doing the worst for their children. If a parent doesnt prepare their kid for the real world might as well just directly set their children up for failure.
In real life, nobody cares about how others feel, and if you make people think that they are always cared for by everybody since birth is kind of similar to murder in a way. It takes away their life.
But even the american schools (or at least the CCSD were i live) are doing this (likely because of psychology trying to ruin everything). All the way through high school they treat you like kindergardeners, trying not to ruin the precious "self esteem", then when you get to college, they treat you like the real world (or so i hear), and really dont give a carp about this semi-useless concept. Wich is why alot of people will fail freshman year of college, because its (appearantly) NOTHING like High school.
Although I've never been to college, and dont know what its really like, I've heard a lot about it, and from what i hear, it sounds just like what parents are doing to their kids.
I am infinately greatfull to my parents for treating me the way they do, and being strict when they need to, and not afraid of me hating them every once in a while. I've gained very much from it, and im not even finished with high school yet! I know in my heart there is only more to come, and i only know i will grow to appreciate my parents more. And looking around at how everybody else around me is, i am even more greatfull that im not anything like the little preeschoolers that make up the majority of the high school population (and greatful for the few others who arent also, and i believe most people here are above the others), and its all thanks to my parents being my worst nightmare, and putting me through just enough hell to make sure i turn out like i should.
So thank you Mom and Dad, for making me who i am.
That's my opinion on the matter.


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Eryth
post Apr 19 2013, 11:29 PM
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...But parents don't have to be unnecessarily harsh to teach their kids about the so-called "real world". And by the way, the world you live in doesn't magically become "real" once you hit 18. Sure, you have a lot more responsibilities, but I think what a lot of people don't understand is that kids deal with as much, or at least almost as much, stress as adults do! Yeah, adults have to deal with work, paying their bills, providing for their family, etc etc... but a lot of kids have to deal with bullying to the point where they have no motivation (sometimes to the point of wanting to end their own lives, on a much higher scale than adults), daily discrimination based on things they can't change about themselves, more work than a lot of them can handle, the expectation of knowing what you want to do with the rest of your life based on a few years of information that's barely practically applicable...I could go on and on about this, but the point is, kids are faced with the harsh reality of life just as much as adults are!

And through all this, kids, especially younger ones, are going to need some constant figure of support in their life - which is usually expected to be their parents! Of course, it's not right to spoil your kids to the point where they hardly know how to do anything (my parents are a bit guilty of this sometimes), but you shouldn't need to force them to do things you don't want them to do if you have a good relationship with them. I think if you're explain things to your kids, they won't argue with you and you won't have to be forceful!

It also pisses me off that parents think that kids are expected to love them even if they treat them like absolute shit, just because they're ~family~. If you're not going to love me unconditionally, I'm not going to do the same to you. Simple as that.

I'm not really sure what exactly I'm trying to say here but tl;dr I agree with OP


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jellybean chi
post May 15 2013, 12:05 AM
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part of me feels like that example was supposed to have a bit of slight humor in it, just by the tone, and no one can really take those things seriously. but i do agree with the point that's being made here. i love my parents more than nearly anything, and my mom is definitely one of my closest friends, but she is still my mom and the mother-daughter relationship does naturally come before the friend-friend relationship. but we still get along pretty well, because she was also a kid once too, and understands the balance between being a parent and being a friend.
i think that sometimes people can get a little carried away with the whole "my parents hate me" or "i hate my parents." my brother says nearly every day that my mom hates him, because she makes him do his homework. i mean, seriously. parents shouldn't really nag or be rude about things either, but the kid should also remember that technically the parent is the authority...i think. that's just how my family and others that i'm close with function. even though my parents are annoying sometimes and totally crazy the rest of the time, i do know that every time they yell at me or whatever, it's because they don't want me to make the same mistakes they made when they were my age. i won't go into detail though, that's kind of invasive.
so, basically, what i'm tryin to say is that parents and kids are both responsible for keeping a balance. and parents should practice tough love, i believe, but no parent should, um, "strive to make their kid hate them" or whatever. so yeah.
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KatjadieTediz
post Nov 29 2013, 01:59 PM
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Awww yeah



This is such a frightening trend, especially online.

Yeah, I know. "OH AURA! But your parents treat you nicely! Sure, they aren't perfect, but they're tolerant and loving and
kind to you the vast majority of the time!"
Well, look buddy, I have friends.

Friends who are around my age.
Friends whose parents call them names, threaten them, hit them, try to ban them
from their Internet comforts when they find out that most people think their actions
are wrong, and just flat out abuse them.

It's a very important thing to remember that just because there aren't any bruises involved doesn't mean it is not abuse.
My best friend is smart, funny, talented and generally a very nice guy. His parents don't seem to see it that way.
They verbally abuse him almost daily, do not let him be independent(he can't even go to the bathroom or get ice in a hotel without his mom following him), make fun of his hobbies. His father used to be physically violent until he grew up enough to defend himself. CPS was called once, his parents forced him to lie to stay out of trouble.
They did not go to one of their assigned therapist meetings. (or maybe just one, this was some years ago.)
He has attempted suicide more than once, one time it was me who saved him and no one else stepped up.
He literally has no self esteem. He refuses to listen if you tell him his situation is unhealthy, or if you even compliment him.

He needs psychological help. It's obvious to me and other friends of his that something has to be done.

But he won't listen...uses money as an excuse. It's too expensive, he says. But all we ask if that a school counselor get involved.

I'm sorry. I really didn't mean to rant. But this is frightening to me. That parents think it's okay to do this to their own children? Unthinkable.


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