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Atheists
Vixenite
post Jun 4 2013, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE(FancyGranola @ Nov 17 2010, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE(FrenzyClinic @ Nov 17 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I'm atheist/agnostic.


I'm not attacking you personally, but there is a distinct difference in the words you just used. Atheist means you do not believe in God. Agnostic means you believe there might be a God, a cosmic being, or whatever.

Do not get those two mixed up because they lead to very different discussions. I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean.

It's funny how many completely wrong things you say in this discussion, like this. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive, and you CAN label yourself as an atheist and still believe there's a possibility a god might exist.


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Azor Ahai
post Jun 4 2013, 03:39 PM
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Topics like this are mostly decided by the people who post in it, you can only get a fair answer if equal amounts post here and give their perspective and obviously differing sides on it. So far i'm seeing one side's presence here more than the other.

In all honesty i believe there is a God but the way it's brought across to me as an individual is questionable. Same with there not being one/ even the possibility of there being one(this just shows being indecisive to me).

It's all in your questioning who you are and the inner mechanisms of how the World operates, that's what'll give you your answer, in my honest but humble opinion.

Atheism is a choice, just like doing anything in this world. No one should be bashed for it as respect is a pivotal part of human relations.

That's just my 2 cents.


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Lord Raven
post Jun 4 2013, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 4 2013, 12:17 AM) *
QUOTE(FancyGranola @ Nov 17 2010, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE(FrenzyClinic @ Nov 17 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I'm atheist/agnostic.


I'm not attacking you personally, but there is a distinct difference in the words you just used. Atheist means you do not believe in God. Agnostic means you believe there might be a God, a cosmic being, or whatever.

Do not get those two mixed up because they lead to very different discussions. I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean.

It's funny how many completely wrong things you say in this discussion, like this. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive, and you CAN label yourself as an atheist and still believe there's a possibility a god might exist.

chillll son that post is like 3 years old at this point lol


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Vixenite
post Jun 5 2013, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE(Lord Raven @ Jun 4 2013, 08:22 PM) *
QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 4 2013, 12:17 AM) *
QUOTE(FancyGranola @ Nov 17 2010, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE(FrenzyClinic @ Nov 17 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I'm atheist/agnostic.


I'm not attacking you personally, but there is a distinct difference in the words you just used. Atheist means you do not believe in God. Agnostic means you believe there might be a God, a cosmic being, or whatever.

Do not get those two mixed up because they lead to very different discussions. I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean.

It's funny how many completely wrong things you say in this discussion, like this. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive, and you CAN label yourself as an atheist and still believe there's a possibility a god might exist.

chillll son that post is like 3 years old at this point lol

Really doesn't matter - this place is for debate, and I'm debating. It's said that you debate more for your audience than the person you're actually engaged with, and that's very true. No one challenged him on his point, so I corrected it for the people who read it and actually thought it was true.


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Lord Raven
post Jun 5 2013, 11:32 PM
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I don't really care too much about the content of your post nor the fact that you responded, it's your tone. Perception is reality and the fact that you sounded irritated and on top of that condescending to a semi-harmless post from 3 years ago is what I was talking more about than your actual point. The way you express your thoughts has almost equal weight as the thoughts themselves, perception is reality, etc


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Vixenite
post Jun 6 2013, 06:17 AM
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QUOTE(Lord Raven @ Jun 6 2013, 12:32 AM) *
I don't really care too much about the content of your post nor the fact that you responded, it's your tone. Perception is reality and the fact that you sounded irritated and on top of that condescending to a semi-harmless post from 3 years ago is what I was talking more about than your actual point. The way you express your thoughts has almost equal weight as the thoughts themselves, perception is reality, etc

You shouldn't debate tone, you should debate the points. I really disagree with the assertion that tone can be equal to the actual content. My tone was not intentionally aggressive. It's a fact that he was saying a lot of incorrect things throughout his postings, it's not an insult to say someone is wrong. I never once insulted him.

His tone was very rude and condescending to begin with. With sentences such as "I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean." - made even worse by the fact that he is wrong. I find it odd that you call out my tone whilst ignoring his much worse and much more hostile tone. I understand the post is old, but you did call it "harmless" while insinuating that there was something wrong with my tone.

This post has been edited by Rainbow Dash x: Jun 6 2013, 07:36 AM


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Lord Raven
post Jun 6 2013, 05:46 PM
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Rainbow Dash let us continue this in another thread. Note that I'm not warning you or anything near that extent, by the way, I'm just stating my opinion that you should probably chill, evaluate the context, and take into account how your post could look when evaluated in context before picking a point to dissect lol


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Yamper
post Jun 6 2013, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 4 2013, 06:17 AM) *
QUOTE(FancyGranola @ Nov 17 2010, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE(FrenzyClinic @ Nov 17 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I'm atheist/agnostic.


I'm not attacking you personally, but there is a distinct difference in the words you just used. Atheist means you do not believe in God. Agnostic means you believe there might be a God, a cosmic being, or whatever.

Do not get those two mixed up because they lead to very different discussions. I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean.

It's funny how many completely wrong things you say in this discussion, like this. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive, and you CAN label yourself as an atheist and still believe there's a possibility a god might exist.


Throwing my own penny in the fountain here but

What's the point in having 2 groups if they're not exclusive? I just. What.

If you don't believe in a God or some higher power then that's fine. But surely if you don't believe in something like that, then you can't say they also think there's a possibility that a God might exist. Because that would be pretty much Agnostic.

I'm probably reading this entirely wrong or I fluked my religion class, but I'm pretty sure you can't be both Agnostic and Atheist at one time :l Essentially saying you're Atheist but also believing there's a possibility of a God cancels out the whole Atheist thinking and sits you in Agnostic.

My brain hurts trying to understand all of what you said and how you thought of it in the first place graaaah (this is also the part where I look like a complete tit because I'm wrong)

This post has been edited by Samoo: Jun 6 2013, 06:03 PM


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Lord Raven
post Jun 6 2013, 06:05 PM
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Yeah I definitely thought Atheists were firm with their beliefs but Agnostics were generally soft and open. I know Agnostics are further split up into something along the lines of weak and strong - the former being more apathetic (and probably actually Apatheistic) and the latter being very contemplative. Of course, there's probably more of a spectrum thing here, because I have a hard time believing Agnostics come in two flavors. Here's to say, it may seem like they're the same on the surface but they're pretty mutually exclusive as far as I can tell lol


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Synx Itax
post Jun 9 2013, 07:42 PM
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Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. The former deals with belief, and the latter deals with knowledge. I am an agnostic atheist -- I don't believe any kind of god exists, but I don't claim to know if he/she/it/they does/do. I used to subscribe to the "agnostics just aren't sure..." but if you look at the roots of the word, belief vs. knowledge makes sense.

There are also gnostic atheists (or as well call them "hard atheists") who claim to know that a god doesn't exist. Same applies to religious people.

QUOTE
But surely if you don't believe in something like that, then you can't say they also think there's a possibility that a God might exist. Because that would be pretty much Agnostic.


Nope. I admit that there is a possibility that a god exists of some kind, just like there's a possibility that the Loch Ness monster exists. I just don't believe in either until the burden of proof for believing in them is met.

This post has been edited by Synx Itax: Jun 9 2013, 07:44 PM


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Lord Raven
post Jun 9 2013, 07:45 PM
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But then what you're describing seems to pretty much mean agnostic lol so I don't understand why the wordplay of "agnostic atheist" exists when it describes more or less an agnostic


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Synx Itax
post Jun 9 2013, 07:48 PM
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It's just to make things more specific, I guess. There are agnostic theists, too.


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Lord Raven
post Jun 9 2013, 07:58 PM
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That's too much, I think it's pointless to argue the use of the word as it stands anyway because
a) it's easier to understand someone who says that they don't really believe in God but doesn't deny his lack of existence
b) Arguments about word meanings are pointless and take too much time


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Vixenite
post Jun 12 2013, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE(Samoo @ Jun 6 2013, 07:01 PM) *
QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 4 2013, 06:17 AM) *
QUOTE(FancyGranola @ Nov 17 2010, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE(FrenzyClinic @ Nov 17 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I'm atheist/agnostic.


I'm not attacking you personally, but there is a distinct difference in the words you just used. Atheist means you do not believe in God. Agnostic means you believe there might be a God, a cosmic being, or whatever.

Do not get those two mixed up because they lead to very different discussions. I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean.

It's funny how many completely wrong things you say in this discussion, like this. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive, and you CAN label yourself as an atheist and still believe there's a possibility a god might exist.


Throwing my own penny in the fountain here but

What's the point in having 2 groups if they're not exclusive? I just. What.

If you don't believe in a God or some higher power then that's fine. But surely if you don't believe in something like that, then you can't say they also think there's a possibility that a God might exist. Because that would be pretty much Agnostic.

I'm probably reading this entirely wrong or I fluked my religion class, but I'm pretty sure you can't be both Agnostic and Atheist at one time :l Essentially saying you're Atheist but also believing there's a possibility of a God cancels out the whole Atheist thinking and sits you in Agnostic.

My brain hurts trying to understand all of what you said and how you thought of it in the first place graaaah (this is also the part where I look like a complete tit because I'm wrong)

I believe someone created the word agnostic a long time ago, something that many atheists are not thrilled about. I prefer referring to myself as an atheist, because I believe god doesn't exist like I don't believe a yeti exists. I would say "I don't believe a yeti exists", because that's the most logical conclusion. Even if 80% of the world believed in yetis, it doesn't make them existing any more likely. The evidence of their existence is highly lacking. So while I can't prove they don't existence, that's not a good enough reason to entertain their existence.

People often say "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", but they use that phrase incorrectly. If you can reasonably expect evidence of something, then the lack of evidence for it is very telling.

This post has been edited by Rainbow Dash x: Jun 12 2013, 11:17 AM


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Lord Raven
post Jun 12 2013, 05:42 PM
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I don't understand any of your points past the words "I prefer referring to myself as an atheist"


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Vixenite
post Jun 13 2013, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE(Lord Raven @ Jun 12 2013, 06:42 PM) *
I don't understand any of your points past the words "I prefer referring to myself as an atheist"

I meant not only do people not assume that I can swayed by all the "evidence" they have that I've heard 100 times before if I call myself an atheist, but also that I wouldn't refer to myself as a yeti-agnostic. People wouldn't take issue with me saying "yetis don't exist, there's no evidence". When it comes to god, they expect me to prove it's impossible. It's exceedingly hard to prove something doesn't exist, and it's not something I need to do. They need to prove their god exists.

I was also saying if it's reasonable to expect evidence of something (such as a god), then absence of evidence is a pretty good evidence of absence.


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Lord Raven
post Jun 13 2013, 07:10 PM
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I don't see where the comparison to yetis and God came in, because God was an establishment of many civilizations (and still remains to be) whereas yetis are just some mythical creature. On the flipside, you can't prove them wrong by saying that you dont believe in yetis lol because the concept and context is completely different. That's simplifying an argument and intellectually dishonest from my point of view.


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Yamper
post Jun 13 2013, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 12 2013, 05:09 PM) *
QUOTE(Samoo @ Jun 6 2013, 07:01 PM) *
QUOTE(Rainbow Dash x @ Jun 4 2013, 06:17 AM) *
QUOTE(FancyGranola @ Nov 17 2010, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE(FrenzyClinic @ Nov 17 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I'm atheist/agnostic.


I'm not attacking you personally, but there is a distinct difference in the words you just used. Atheist means you do not believe in God. Agnostic means you believe there might be a God, a cosmic being, or whatever.

Do not get those two mixed up because they lead to very different discussions. I do not like how kids these days just throw around vocabulary that they might not 100% understand and yet they use it like they know what they mean.

It's funny how many completely wrong things you say in this discussion, like this. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive, and you CAN label yourself as an atheist and still believe there's a possibility a god might exist.


Throwing my own penny in the fountain here but

What's the point in having 2 groups if they're not exclusive? I just. What.

If you don't believe in a God or some higher power then that's fine. But surely if you don't believe in something like that, then you can't say they also think there's a possibility that a God might exist. Because that would be pretty much Agnostic.

I'm probably reading this entirely wrong or I fluked my religion class, but I'm pretty sure you can't be both Agnostic and Atheist at one time :l Essentially saying you're Atheist but also believing there's a possibility of a God cancels out the whole Atheist thinking and sits you in Agnostic.

My brain hurts trying to understand all of what you said and how you thought of it in the first place graaaah (this is also the part where I look like a complete tit because I'm wrong)

I believe someone created the word agnostic a long time ago, something that many atheists are not thrilled about. I prefer referring to myself as an atheist, because I believe god doesn't exist like I don't believe a yeti exists. I would say "I don't believe a yeti exists", because that's the most logical conclusion. Even if 80% of the world believed in yetis, it doesn't make them existing any more likely. The evidence of their existence is highly lacking. So while I can't prove they don't existence, that's not a good enough reason to entertain their existence.

People often say "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", but they use that phrase incorrectly. If you can reasonably expect evidence of something, then the lack of evidence for it is very telling.


After reading through several times I really don't see how that even responded to what I said in my previous post. That mostly consisted of the points of view of you trying to explain religious words through the use of a creature that may or may not exist?

But that still doesn't really explain as to why for some reason Agnostics = Atheists..

People may use all these fancy expansions of the 3 words but why? Why confuse things? Just keep the three damn words the same and state whether you do, maybe or don't think there' a God.

Few posts behind but whatever.


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Vixenite
post Jun 13 2013, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE(Lord Raven @ Jun 13 2013, 08:10 PM) *
I don't see where the comparison to yetis and God came in, because God was an establishment of many civilizations (and still remains to be) whereas yetis are just some mythical creature. On the flipside, you can't prove them wrong by saying that you dont believe in yetis lol because the concept and context is completely different. That's simplifying an argument and intellectually dishonest from my point of view.

Unicorns and dragons are an establishment of many civilizations. Doesn't make it true. There's not any evidence that a god is true.


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Little Peanut
post Jun 13 2013, 07:48 PM
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I believe that there are two types opinions by which we judge people on,
opinions that can be deemed socially aceptable to judge people on,
and opinions one believes that are acceptable to judge people based on are own opinions

so I believe should not judge people on their religious beliefs unless they contradict a set of morals that I believe in, that being things such as killing people is bad, and things along that line.


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