[X] My Assistant

[Swordsalmon]

Uh...does anyone know if there are paired endings for FE10? That was the thing in Path Of Radiance I hated; no endings.

Which reminds me, I finally successfully was able to recruit Stefan and get all of Chapter 15's bonus experience. 1360 BEXP, to be precise.

[Lord Raven]

Chapter 15's BEXP is a waste of time imo, especially since you tend to get more from beating down on the laguz (IIRC).

[Swordsalmon]

I have to disagree. The average party level is about 12-15, and the enemies' levels are 2-4. There are only 19 enemies, minus Muraim. So any kills give little experience, due to the enemies' low levels. Besides, the sand allows mounties to rarely participate in combat anyways, so they aren't getting any experience here. By getting the BEXP, you are getting more experience overall, and it can be given to any of the underleveled characters, like Makalov and Tormod.

[Lord Raven]

Actually, they give EXP as if they were promoted. If your team levels are 12-15 then they should be able to receive a good 30 or so EXP per head, from what I recall.
Also, your weaker flying units (Marcia, Jill) and magic units (Mist, Soren, Rhys) can get plenty of EXP. Maybe not Mist or Rhys due to healing, but Marcia and Jill will definitely get loads of action, being able to lure and strike down the beast/hawk laguz, while getting much needed EXP in the process.

And no way in hell am I giving that EXP to Muarim, he's closer to maxing out his level than your entire troop. Tormod I never liked, and I don't really find him worth using imo..

But to each their own as far as FE strategies go.

[Liquefy]

Personally, I think that Jill is worthless trash. There's games where she is a beast and games where she can just be flat out terrible, especially when she first joins. I've never found her to be that great. I really don't like Haar, either, but I'll use him if I have to.

Mist and Rhys are also pretty hard to use for me. If Rhys can get a good start, I'm OK, but if I get a bad start, I just can't seem to use him. Mist comes too late to be worth anything. I'll use Rolf, cause he can actually kick some ass when he gets a few levels on him, but Mist can't do anything Rhys can't pre-promotion. The only thing that makes her worth using at all is the Black Knight fight, and I've done that without her plenty of times. Her use of swords is also canceled out solely by the fact that she has pretty sucky strength.

Tormod, to some (most people I've talked to, anyway), is a good contender for best mage in the game. Unlike Soren, he's got more than a whole two strength, so using heavier, more powerful tomes isn't a hindrance to him. If it gets high enough, he's also a good knife mage, should Volke not have the proper training to use them.

[Lord Raven]

You should debate at FEFF

Personally, I think that Jill is worthless trash. There's games where she is a beast and games where she can just be flat out terrible, especially when she first joins. I've never found her to be that great. I really don't like Haar, either, but I'll use him if I have to.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=jill&game=9e

Worthless trash how?

As for Haar, I'm not going too in-depth. He's one of my favorite characters in the game but he's pretty average. :/

Mist and Rhys are also pretty hard to use for me. If Rhys can get a good start, I'm OK, but if I get a bad start, I just can't seem to use him. Mist comes too late to be worth anything. I'll use Rolf, cause he can actually kick some ass when he gets a few levels on him, but Mist can't do anything Rhys can't pre-promotion. The only thing that makes her worth using at all is the Black Knight fight, and I've done that without her plenty of times. Her use of swords is also canceled out solely by the fact that she has pretty sucky strength.

BEXP remedies this I guess, but they're your only healers until Soren, Ilyana, or Tormod promote. Or *shrugs* Elincia.
Mist is good, she needs quite a bit of help early on but it's worth it when you get a mounted healer with good magic and somewhat decent offense (forge a sword, lawl, it's not like anyone else needs it) out of the deal. Rhys isn't that good imo, but he's still pretty decent.

I like Rolf, I just think he's not as good as many other characters.. :/

Tormod, to some (most people I've talked to, anyway), is a good contender for best mage in the game. Unlike Soren, he's got more than a whole two strength, so using heavier, more powerful tomes isn't a hindrance to him. If it gets high enough, he's also a good knife mage, should Volke not have the proper training to use them.

Tormod best mage in the game what

Soren comes loads earlier, has much higher magic and is absolutely crushing Tormod when he comes in. Soren has significantly higher magic too and tends to do more damage overall, even with wind tomes over heavier, more powerful tomes. Don't underestimate Tornado.
And even when you train Tormod, the fact of the matter is that he has overall the same offense as Soren, but Soren takes less effort and gets loads of evasion from Ike.

Staves > Knives simply because Healing is better than a crappy offensive weapon. I prefer Volke with knives (who's more useful due to thieving and coming earlier) myself. :/

[Liquefy]

I don't know weather to take that as a compliment or an insult...

Jill's average stats say nothing for her because they are averages. I have been through hell and back trying to explain the theory of using an average, and Jill's make me laugh. 27 speed? Lies! Lies I say! Jill coming anywhere close to her speed cap makes me giggle. She's probably twice even gotten to about 20 without any equipped item or stat ups in my several games. The only thing Jill's really worth is the fact that she can fly and her stellar (but expected) wyvern knight defense. She brings nothing new or interesting to the table, and I'm insanely tired of her overrated...ness.

The healers in Radiance all got pretty fucked, really. Elincia comes late, Rhys has suck strength so he basically has absolutely no means of offense, and Mist is a pain in the ass to raise.

If you're going to say that BEXP is OK to use on Rhys or Mist, or even Elincia, then you can't turn around and not use it as an advantage for Tormod. With BEXP, he can match or even surpass Soren in little time. He's got the ability to move after battle, too, which is insanely useful if he's stuck in a crowd. I also, personally, always support Ike and Oscar rather than Ike and Soren. Ike's bonuses are much more important, since if he dies I essentially lose everything. If Soren dies, I'll still restart, but I don't HAVE to, so Ike holds more priority over Soren simply because the fact of the matter is that I have to use him, so Soren will likely never get such evasion boosts here. Plus I'd rather have double attacks than supreme magic power, especially since the enemies in Radiance have higher resistance than enemies in past games. Higher levelled tomes are almost essential in later levels of the game, and it would help tremendously if the mage/sage in question can actually double attack while holding those tomes, so they either need an ass load of speed or some good strength.

Knife mages can be more helpful than they're given credit for. True, the staves are a better route, but if they're healing then they're taking away potential experience for the other three healers, who, if it isn't obvious enough, need all the experience they can get. Stilettos are win, too. Granted, I'd rather use magic on generals, but they're still OK if you don't want to waste magic on a general with a few HP.

[Swordsalmon]

Jill's average stats say nothing for her because they are averages. I have been through hell and back trying to explain the theory of using an average, and Jill's make me laugh. 27 speed? Lies! Lies I say! Jill coming anywhere close to her speed cap makes me giggle. She's probably twice even gotten to about 20 without any equipped item or stat ups in my several games. The only thing Jill's really worth is the fact that she can fly and her stellar (but expected) wyvern knight defense. She brings nothing new or interesting to the table, and I'm insanely tired of her overrated...ness.

Non. Jill begins with a base of 9 Speed with a 45% growth. That's pretty darned good for a Dragon Master. Averages are a calculation of growths, bases, remaining levels, and promotion gains. For each level, Jill gains .45 Speed, her growth in Speed. Promotion gives her +2 Speed. Also, she's incredible for her class. A Dragon Master gets the second-best weapon selection in the game, and will almost always get WTA with Axes, boosting her avoid. Growths are incredible, as the same with bases. Any shortcomings are accounted for with her supports, especially Mist. The only problem with Jill is her slight underleveledness, but after a couple levels, she's a beast. Definate top-tier material.

The healers in Radiance all got pretty fucked, really. Elincia comes late, Rhys has suck strength so he basically has absolutely no means of offense, and Mist is a pain in the ass to raise.

Elincia sucks, true, and Kilroy is there basically only for early-game healing. However, Mist is amazing. Her underleveledness isn't too bad, as she gains from a personal experience pool, and gets the option of Physic staffs, which boost experiance fast. Growths again are great. Though Mist has lower defensive and offensive values, she supports with Boyd and Jill, both who give her those stats. After promotion, Mist gets much-needed Swords and a pony, making her the ultimate in healing. Movement after healing to get out of attack range and Swords provide a decent method of defense.

If you're going to say that BEXP is OK to use on Rhys or Mist, or even Elincia, then you can't turn around and not use it as an advantage for Tormod. With BEXP, he can match or even surpass Soren in little time. He's got the ability to move after battle, too, which is insanely useful if he's stuck in a crowd. I also, personally, always support Ike and Oscar rather than Ike and Soren. Ike's bonuses are much more important, since if he dies I essentially lose everything. If Soren dies, I'll still restart, but I don't HAVE to, so Ike holds more priority over Soren simply because the fact of the matter is that I have to use him, so Soren will likely never get such evasion boosts here. Plus I'd rather have double attacks than supreme magic power, especially since the enemies in Radiance have higher resistance than enemies in past games. Higher levelled tomes are almost essential in later levels of the game, and it would help tremendously if the mage/sage in question can actually double attack while holding those tomes, so they either need an ass load of speed or some good strength.

That's true, as Mist would've surpassed Tormod in level by the time he joined, with mimimal BEXP. However, Soren should be at about level 12 (Assuming no BEXP was used.) or higher, and totally outclasses Tormod by then. You have to literally glut Tormod with BEXP to catch up, which could be better used on characters like Makalov or Astrid, who are far superior. Also, Tormod needs the Knight Ring to attack-move. XD The problems with that support though, is that Oscar wants Kieran A and Ike B, for movement with Kieran gurantees support bonuses. Ike wants Soren A for the same reason. And Soren does double more often than not. He doesn't lose AS with a Wind, which still enables use of his incredible Magic while doubling. He does lose roughly 2 AS with Elwind, but Soren's high Speed allows him to still double consistantly.

I love the thrill of Fire Emblem debates. Seriously, it's probably my favourite pastime.

[Lord Raven]

Non. Jill begins with a base of 9 Speed with a 45% growth. That's pretty darned good for a Dragon Master. Averages are a calculation of growths, bases, remaining levels, and promotion gains. For each level, Jill gains .45 Speed, her growth in Speed.

Actually, FEA doesn't necessarily work like that, but lets not get into complex mathematics here...
I've pretty much asked Twilkitri myself and (tried to) figure out FE10 Ike's speed average. It was a failure because Excel sucks.

Kilroy is there basically only for early-game healing.

*Healing until Mist promotes

After promotion, Mist gets much-needed Swords and a pony, making her the ultimate in healing. Movement after healing to get out of attack range and Swords provide a decent method of defense.

Don't forget her shortcomings can also easily be fixed by a forged Sword, which she makes better use of than anyone else at that point.

True, the staves are a better route

I'm going to skip the rest of your argument just for this.

Then why use Knife mages at all? And if you're going that route, use Ilyana since she has higher Strength. Or Bastian
Even though Bastian sucks.

but if they're healing then they're taking away potential experience for the other three healers, who, if it isn't obvious enough, need all the experience they can get.

Well Mist gets easily supported by BEXP, which is better off used on her because she makes the most out of it; she brings mounted healing to your group. Tormod gives near-mounted magic, but doesn't do any better than Soren AND is too frail, unlike Paladins and other mounts, to stay in the frontlines, making his movement advantage very moot.

But Mist is very frail as well...
But if she's in danger, she has this advantage in moving back! She also gets a lot of Defense from supports as well as offense, and loads more Evade than Tormod.

Knight Ring!
Reyson makes the better use out of those, boots, and Laguz Stones so he can get in there, then get out and still maintain massive move while being transformed.

If you're going to use stat boosters or anything in a discussion (I prefer to call it discussions instead of debates), then justify why you should give it to that particular character.

Granted, I'd rather use magic on generals, but they're still OK if you don't want to waste magic on a general with a few HP.

If you don't want to waste magic on a general with few HP, why would you waste a Stiletto that only has 20 uses? ._. I'd rather use a physical unit on it if I'm so worried over a trivial detail like what you brought up. >_>


Honestly Liquefy, your arguments on "my characters never reached such and such a stat!" can be argued with "well mine did" because I've seriously had Jill hit 45 HP, and max out Str/Skl/Spd/Def. And on another playthrough, she had 25 Str/Skl/Spd and 23 or so Defense.

[Lester Burnham]

Liquid. Jill is not trash. She has the potential to max every stat Ike can max, and she can go even footing with him in a spar match-even if he has Ragnell. Hell, she can outbattle him. All she needs is Parity/Nihil and boom. Dead. Aether=gone. She is unarguably top-tier, one of the best in FE9, and I hear she's even better in FE10.

Except that she marries Haar

[Lord Raven]

Actually, she has less potential to max every stat Ike's able to. Ike has a higher chance of being able to max those stats.
Jill can't go on even footing unless she has Resolve or something; why waste Nihil on her when you can put on Resolve? Sure, Aether still almost destroys her, but she almost destroys back with the Resolve attack.

But I'm sure being able to go head to head with another char in the game doesn't alter how useful a character is or isn't... because a situation like that never happens.

[Eltoshen]

Actually, she has less potential to max every stat Ike's able to. Ike has a higher chance of being able to max those stats.
Jill can't go on even footing unless she has Resolve or something; why waste Nihil on her when you can put on Resolve? Sure, Aether still almost destroys her, but she almost destroys back with the Resolve attack.

But I'm sure being able to go head to head with another char in the game doesn't alter how useful a character is or isn't... because a situation like that never happens.

And why are we comparing Jill and Ike in the first place? That's what doesn't make sense to me.

[Lord Raven]

because they're both fucking leet lol

This you cannot deny.

EDIT: they're both physical fighters, if that counts for anything.

[Liquefy]

Well, since this was revived, I suppose I should take this as an opportunity to bring up Dawn. Mia is totally the best unit in the game. Well, I dunno, Nephenee is still a strong contender. Micaiah is trash and Sothe is only decent. Blah, almost all of Micaiah's units suck because you barely get a chance to use them.

[Lester Burnham]

Well, since this was revived, I suppose I should take this as an opportunity to bring up Dawn. Mia is totally the best unit in the game. Well, I dunno, Nephenee is still a strong contender. Micaiah is trash and Sothe is only decent. Blah, almost all of Micaiah's units suck because you barely get a chance to use them.

Even Jill?

I heard she kicks ass.

[Lord Raven]

Edward, Nolan, Jill, and Zihark are all worthwhile Part I units...

As for Mia, I wouldn't say she's the best. Lookswise, yes she is the best, but she's pretty good... just not the best. In fact, there is loads more justification for Haar being the best; he's in for some of the highest playtime in the entire game (2 chapters in part II, then all but two of Ike's Part III chapters and finally 7 chapters/parts in the endgame) and he comes in strong and ends up quite strong. His Str/Skl/Def are also very high, and his Speed/HP get to a decent enough point. Also, Axes are the single most strong weapon in the game.

[Lester Burnham]

Edward, Nolan, Jill, and Zihark are all worthwhile Part I units...

As for Mia, I wouldn't say she's the best. Lookswise, Jill is the best, but she's pretty good... just not the best. In fact, there is loads more justification for Haar being the best; he's in for some of the highest playtime in the entire game (2 chapters in part II, then all but two of Ike's Part III chapters and finally 7 chapters/parts in the endgame) and he comes in strong and ends up quite strong. His Str/Skl/Def are also very high, and his Speed/HP get to a decent enough point. Also, Axes are the single most strong weapon in the game.

Fixed'd.

I will, without a doubt, use Jill and Haar. Both turn out kickass in the end. Who I will give Urvan to, I don't know.

[Lord Raven]

I gave it to Boyd because I find him cooler than Haar. And Haar was one of my favorite FE9/10 chars.

[Lester Burnham]

So far, Edward is kicking serious ass. He's level 13 Mymridon and pwning all. He's at a B support with Leonardo and the two together are a grest duo. Micaiah has some good stats as of now, and her A support with Sothe helps. Nolan's really good too, although I may dump him after part I. Zihark seems to have gotten an improvement, while they screwed Jill a bit, but I'll still work with her. Tauroneo is just Tauroneo. I used him for 1 battle so far, just to kill someone. That's it. He won't get my love. Sothe is actually good for now, although I'll regret him later. Meg is fat, ugly, and has the shittiest stats ever. Whoever spawned her sucks at life. Ilyana actually improved a bit, I'm using her FOR NOW, maybe later too.

[Lord Raven]

I ended up using Sothe/Micaiah/Nolan/Edward/Jill/Laura consistently by Part IV and throughout Part III. Laura was because it was easy to keep her protected in part III Silver Army maps and the fact that she was my only non-Micaiah healer (Micaiah needed a LOT of EXP, after all), and the other guys were just forced/were powerful enough at the time for me to be able to use.

Tauroneo's usefulness is really hindered this time around, imo... part I - two maps only. Part III, his stats start to lag (behind most of your level 5-6 chars)...

Oh well, Greil mercs > all. Even the lesser Greil Mercs are better than most chars in the game.