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[redacted]'s concerning activity.
Davidian
post Sep 1 2019, 06:13 PM
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Hello all, I recently in boxed the global moderators about an issue I experienced on August 30-31st, but due to the lack of response from said moderators I would rather this post go public than be swept under the carpet. It does not matter if I get banned or not for this post, as I'm unsure if i'll still be playing knowing the user in question is still playing, I would much prefer exposing some light on this issue and go down with the ship if it must. Perhaps I myself am wrong, but I am here to tell you what I saw on the day and maybe someone can point out where I may be wrong in my accusations?

On Friday 30th August - Server restart 12 am (5.am U.K time) is where I began my task of fulfilling the elite clicker task, this day in particular I had 2 tasks: 1) complete elite clicker and 2) finish the day at #1 most interactions today.

I was consistent with my clicks through out the day, probably only took about 2 hours worth of break out of the whole day tops, but when I was clicking it was as consistent and efficient as I could get it. The lowest amount of of interactions I was aiming was 20k per hour. (P.S. Global admins, I did say to you 25k clicks, but on reflection its more 20-23k clicks with latency and 2 breaks included but we will round it to my lowest average of clicks for argument sake.)

Now lets check out the math of that: 20k clicks x 24 hours = 480,000 interactions total for the day.

Less we forget that:
20k interactions per hour % 60 minutes = 333.3333 clicks per minute
333.3333 % 60 seconds = 5.5555 interactions per second.

Now it's worth noting that 5-6 interactions per second is very do able, perhaps even a couple more. 20k Was my lowest amount of clicks I was aiming per hour, I was reaching this target consistently ever hour with 1-3k extra depending if it was a good hour or not.

To cut a long story short, [redacted]
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jeanmichel
post Sep 2 2019, 03:18 AM
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He's not the only one with suspicious activity. But maybe you shouldn't name him. It's probably not easy for admins to check if a user is using an auto-clicker or something. What's the limit between optimized clicks done by hand by someone with low latency and an auto-clicker?

There's also the problem of mobile walker which can be fooled by giving fake GPS coordinates. Some people go around the Earth several time in a day apparently. But what's the limit? If someone does take a long distance fly, a large distance is possible in a day. What if you happen to be a stewart?

I hope admins will be able to take a look at the suspicious clicks, but I can't comment on their silence, as I've already contacted an admin about a bug and got a reply quickly. They may be busy IRL too.

This post has been edited by jeanmichel: Sep 2 2019, 03:18 AM
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maeflora
post Sep 2 2019, 05:03 PM
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sir this is a pokemon clicksite if you are this mad about it please log off and re evaluate your life
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vendyjane
post Sep 3 2019, 01:30 PM
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This is a complicated issue. As someone who has their finger on the pulse of how long it takes for me to clear a page (~3 minutes), and even how many interactions I can get in an hour (at the absolute most ~35k), it's slightly more easy for me to spot people who may be botting if I keep my eye on the stats page long enough. This is because of my daily interactions record, 725,770 (#2), which I achieved after a grueling 24 hour clicking session and have only attempted to best once or twice because it takes a lot out of me physically and mentally.

Many variables need to align to get a ridiculously high daily record. Your own internet must be consistently fast, GPX needs to have a particularly good day for its own connectivity (usually as the result of low activity - I got my record on a non-multiplier day), you need to be mashing the 1-5 keys and spacebar as fast as possible, and keep your focus.

There are plenty of times where I've been suspicious of people's activity but have backed out of making a bold claim because it could easily be turned around on me due to my own history. A few times, people who I initially was hesitant to suspect despite consistently getting 300k-400k interactions EVERY SINGLE DAY were eventually noticed by admins and banned. It's often hard to tell if people are botting unless they make themselves extremely obvious and if people notice them enough to notify an admin. The only way to spot botters reliably is to keep a close eye on how quickly they're gaining interactions. Generally speaking I wouldn't consider anything more than 40k an hour legitimate, and that's pushing it.

I would refrain from making distinct posts about these accusations and instead privately message an admin. Botters only really get banned if they're noticed and people say something, and if you're truly concerned and have enough evidence to suggest that they're not being legitimate then that would be the best course of action. I would be very hesitant to make claims, however, because of varying internet speeds and how long people can truly endure mass clicking in a single day, as is shown in my case.


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Myou
post Sep 4 2019, 10:13 AM
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Honestly, I'm not sure what you were hoping to accomplish by creating a public callout post other than creating discord among the users. We really wouldn't be able to do anything about the situation, that's what the moderators and admins are for. Chances are the mods you contacted are busy (real-life can do that sometimes and it's not like the forums are as active as they used to be), but mods and global mods, IIRC, only have power over the forums. The most they could do is forward your message to an admin to look at. Admins are the ones that would be able to deal with a potential botter.

Also, there have been false botting claims made in the past (one person had to record themselves performing manual interactions to prove their innocence and get themselves unbanned), so they're not just going to ban a person's account then look into it, they're going to make sure the person's actually doing something wrong before taking action. Gathering that evidence takes time.


While I can appreciate that you want to keep the site fair, this isn't the way to go about it. You really should be letting the people who can actually do something handle it rather than making a post dragging someone's name through the mud based on a single day of observation. Your standard doesn't nessecarily translate to other people's standards. How would you feel if someone made a post like this about you because you had one good day of clicking? Would you still be able to interact with other people's adoptables normally, knowing someone called you out as a botter and other people are scrutinizing you now? I know that would ruin my ability to enjoy the site.





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PokeManiac Emma
post Sep 7 2019, 12:37 AM
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Except this wasn't one good day of clicking. The concerning amount of interactions were achieved within a few hours before server reset. We're talking around 100k an hour.

If that had been continuous all day, they would have even surpassed vendyjane's best score.
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Zerxer
post Sep 7 2019, 11:04 AM
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I'm going to leave this thread up, with the OP redacted, because there are some good replies in here and it serves as a good lesson.

First of all, I did a quick search of PM metadata and found zero PMs to moderators. I have no idea how that is possible since you seem very sure that you sent them, so if you have any kind of proof of having sent them, show me. In fact there were only 3 PMs coming out of your account, all of which were to regular members. I've not read them, we can't do that here, but hopefully they (especially any you sent to the person you're calling out here) were friendly as we do not tolerate harassment in PMs.

Second of all, we also do not tolerate calling users out publicly like this. You're an adult, act like one. I appreciate all of the math you've done in building your case, but for anyone else reading this, send accusations like that directly to me. I'm the only one that's going to fully investigate issues like this and make a judgment call.

As others have stated, it's not always easy to just assume someone is cheating. We on staff have made wrongful accusations, and acted on them, in the past, only for the people to come back with proof. I appreciate users like that because they truly love the site and I've felt regret over putting them through that. Since then, I've done my best to make sure I'm 110% sure before issuing any kind of punishment.

Note that I always have many users I'm monitoring and collecting information on, however I'm far slower at this part these days since this site is sort of in the background of my life now. To me, even if I'm 95% sure someone is cheating, it doesn't really bother me if they're allowed to stay on the site for a while longer. They'll eventually find themselves banned and scrubbed from all the stats and all their Pokémon will be released, so by that point no harm has actually been done to any other user, and the banned user would have grown more attached by then making the ban more impactful.

Regarding the Mobile Walker abuse that was brought up here (and that has been on many users' minds for a long while now): know that I have a dashboard that surfaces up anyone who has been abusing it. Years ago we used to take action more frequently, but again this site is running in the background these days. However, I do plan to soon take action against every user that's been abusing it. For anyone reading this that is on that list, this doesn't mean a ban. For this type of feature abuse, we simply disable the feature, so you would no longer have access to the Mobile Walker. Stats related to the feature may also be expunged. If you've only just now realized the Mobile Walker can be abused, take this as a warning to not bother starting.

Lastly, cut it out with calling users out or referencing this "drama" in your statuses and journals. Again, act like the adult I've presumed you to be. If another user cheating and not being banned fast enough really does make you want to be banned too, then that can definitely be arranged, but it's far easier to just move on and enjoy yourself and your personal collection.


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Note that I'm on an uncertain hiatus.


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