[X] My Assistant

[Shadow N]

A simple suggestion, I think that, in the future, especially with normal explorations there should be a difficulty increase... where certain pokemon needed for an exploration and thier level would be completely random to a certain extent. For example, it would pick a pokemon of a certain rarity and a respectable level to make it reach.

This way repeating an exploration would require different tasks every time and would also prevent cheating by having others discuss tasklists in the forums or on other websites. It would mean that users would need to reach that stage in the exploration and not prepare for it beforehand like many will now do with the pokemon for the Unown Exploration.

It would not work with special explorations, in my opinion, because often there are only completed once per user and they will not see the randomisation effect.

Discuss~

[Captain Combuske...]

I definitely like the idea of randomization for exploration. I still need to get all the Onowns, but I'm not keen on doing "Mystery Creature..." 26 times. It'll be just too boring. I don't want 26 level 50 odd Poliwraths.

So I'm definitely all for this. Maybe have a set list of Pokemon that could be chosen for the exploration. For Mystery Creature, for example, you could have to get one of fifteen Pokemon.
Poliwrath
Toxicroak
Primeape
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Medicham
Machamp
Conkeldurr
Scrafty
Mienshao
Feraligatr
Ursaring
Slaking
Nidoking.

Just a random list like that of Pokemon who might be suited to the task. Just to spice it up.
Also, making the items required slightly different. Stuff like that.

Yeah, I really like this idea (or my understanding of it anyway).

[Jen]

I definitely like the idea of randomization for exploration. I still need to get all the Onowns, but I'm not keen on doing "Mystery Creature..." 26 times. It'll be just too boring. I don't want 26 level 50 odd Poliwraths.

So I'm definitely all for this. Maybe have a set list of Pokemon that could be chosen for the exploration. For Mystery Creature, for example, you could have to get one of fifteen Pokemon.
Poliwrath

Just a random list like that of Pokemon who might be suited to the task. Just to spice it up.
Also, making the items required slightly different. Stuff like that.

Yeah, I really like this idea (or my understanding of it anyway).

Well... Poliwrath is what is written in the story. I don't like the idea that the original authors intended pokemon are being switched up just because it's getting boring to other users.

Sure, I had Blatoise fight Giovanni in a ripple in time, and in the battle tower you could use anything, but with 3 vs 3 you kind of had to use whatever. But no, I wouldn't like it if my starting 5 pokemon were switched up after taking the time to make use of all of them in the story.

Edit: The items being randomized doesn't exactly fit with the story either. The story will say something like, drink some fresh water, so you get that item in your inventory. You don't want to have it say drink a fresh water and yet you bring an antidote to drink.

This post has been edited by Jen: Aug 7 2011, 04:28 PM

[Special K]

I kinda like this.

[pumpkinking0192]

Well... Poliwrath is what is written in the story. I don't like the idea that the original authors intended pokemon are being switched up just because it's getting boring to other users.

I think the idea was that the Pokemon named in the story would get changed too (if I'm not mistaken it would be quite easy to program the text to change depending on which Pokemon was randomly selected to be required). As far as your authors-intent argument, I doubt that the admins would trouble themselves to change an already-running Exploration just because it was boring for some users, but I do think future Normal Explorations could be written specifically for the idea of random tasks, if the admins decide to implement random tasks.

[Jen]

I really don't think randomizing words and tasks is going to work. (At least as of current.)

But now if you're changing up everything, then the art would be completely useless since authors intent. I still say no to randomization on tasks like that. Lets just say if they are able to make things random, then the only thing that might be do-able would be interaction and berry feeding tasks. (Maybe specific natured pokemon, too.)

Oh, right. Levels, too, I suppose.

This post has been edited by Jen: Aug 7 2011, 06:13 PM

[Spokesman]

I definitely like the idea of randomization for exploration. I still need to get all the Onowns, but I'm not keen on doing "Mystery Creature..." 26 times. It'll be just too boring. I don't want 26 level 50 odd Poliwraths.

So I'm definitely all for this. Maybe have a set list of Pokemon that could be chosen for the exploration. For Mystery Creature, for example, you could have to get one of fifteen Pokemon.
Poliwrath

Just a random list like that of Pokemon who might be suited to the task. Just to spice it up.
Also, making the items required slightly different. Stuff like that.

Yeah, I really like this idea (or my understanding of it anyway).

Well... Poliwrath is what is written in the story. I don't like the idea that the original authors intended pokemon are being switched up just because it's getting boring to other users.

Sure, I had Blatoise fight Giovanni in a ripple in time, and in the battle tower you could use anything, but with 3 vs 3 you kind of had to use whatever. But no, I wouldn't like it if my starting 5 pokemon were switched up after taking the time to make use of all of them in the story.

Edit: The items being randomized doesn't exactly fit with the story either. The story will say something like, drink some fresh water, so you get that item in your inventory. You don't want to have it say drink a fresh water and yet you bring an antidote to drink.

That's not all that bad having 26 Poliwraths. You could compare them and find the one with the better stats and use it in the Battle Tower.

[Shadow N]

I don't see it working with the current explorations, but in the future it could easily work for particular tasks. The story would be suited to this regard, in my eyes.

For example, if there was a mysterious pokeball left on the ground, that would still be the artist image for that task of the exploration. Different users would need to get different pokemon just in the form of randomisation in order for the task to continue. Maybe only for harder normal explorations where the prize is something completely different. I am not saying that any of the explorations that currently exist should be changed, only that new explorations could use these feature in the future.

Obviously, things cannot be COMPLETELY random because otherwise it could ask you to get different legendary pokemon items when others need to get a Bidoof or something, there would obviously be a set group of pokemon, linked by the type of form they have - such as common rarity or something along those lines.

[Jen]

For example, if there was a mysterious pokeball left on the ground, that would still be the artist image for that task of the exploration. Different users would need to get different pokemon just in the form of randomisation in order for the task to continue.

Isn't that the same as the "have any (pokemon type) pokemon in your party" task? Getting to choose your own and what not?
well then again i suppose it wouldn't just be limited to that...

This post has been edited by Jen: Aug 8 2011, 01:41 PM

[Apple Bloom]

Well if you do not want to the unown exploration then you are going to have to look in the lab because some people found unown in there but do not expect to be very common or people would've went to the lab and not the exploration and then that would've made the exploration pointless if that happened.Some people do it 26 times so if they can then you can.The randomization is not that good at all because the randomization will just make things complicated to some people.Plus they can't change the story each time you start a exploration

This post has been edited by Kenitchi Shirahama n Mari: Aug 8 2011, 08:48 PM

[Special K]

Well if you do not want to the unown exploration then you are going to have to look in the lab because some people found unown in there but do not expect to be very common or people would've went to the lab and not the exploration and then that would've made the exploration pointless if that happened.Some people do it 26 times so if they can then you can.The randomization is not that good at all because the randomization will just make things complicated to some people.Plus they can't change the story each time you start a exploration

I feel like half of that had nothing to do with this thread o_O

But about the part that did.... I dunno, I don't see why it would be super hard to make an exploration in the future that changed. I know there's already the "Have a ___(whatever type)___ pokemon in your party" type tasks and so on, but even those tasks, people can prepare for beforehand? I mostly like this idea because of what was said in the first post about task lists getting posted, so nowadays (with the exception of new explorations) people can just start collecting the pokemon they need as soon as they start the exploration. That still applies for the type pokemon tasks like that.

I personally think it'd be fun if it did something like..... randomly select from any second evolution uncommon pokemon or whatever, you get the point. And if they could then code the story so that wherever that pokemon was mentioned, it used whatever pokemon you were randomly assigned. Yeah, it'd mean that particular pokemon couldn't be used in the art for the exploration, but..... eh, I dunno, maybe someone could write a story where there could be plenty of cool art drawn unrelated to those specific random pokemon tasks, or something.

Then people wouldn't be levelling up the pokemon as soon as they started, like they would if they knew they just needed any water type or something.

And obviously some item-type tasks couldn't be changed I suppose, but if it were written more generically about battle items or something, then it could randomly choose any of the battle items for you to find, ya know?

*shrug* I dunno, maybe it's not possible, or maybe they just wouldn't like they idea enough to ever implement it, but I think it's fun, so kudos on the idea either way xD

This post has been edited by Granger Danger: Aug 8 2011, 09:48 PM

[Jen]

But about the part that did.... I dunno, I don't see why it would be super hard to make an exploration in the future that changed. I know there's already the "Have a ___(whatever type)___ pokemon in your party" type tasks and so on, but even those tasks, people can prepare for beforehand? I mostly like this idea because of what was said in the first post about task lists getting posted, so nowadays (with the exception of new explorations) people can just start collecting the pokemon they need as soon as they start the exploration. That still applies for the type pokemon tasks like that.

I personally think it'd be fun if it did something like..... randomly select from any second evolution uncommon pokemon or whatever, you get the point. And if they could then code the story so that wherever that pokemon was mentioned, it used whatever pokemon you were randomly assigned. Yeah, it'd mean that particular pokemon couldn't be used in the art for the exploration, but..... eh, I dunno, maybe someone could write a story where there could be plenty of cool art drawn unrelated to those specific random pokemon tasks, or something.

Then people wouldn't be leveling up the pokemon as soon as they started, like they would if they knew they just needed any water type or something.

And obviously some item-type tasks couldn't be changed I suppose, but if it were written more generically about battle items or something, then it could randomly choose any of the battle items for you to find, ya know?

*shrug* I dunno, maybe it's not possible, or maybe they just wouldn't like the idea enough to ever implement it, but I think it's fun, so kudos on the idea either way xD

Hmm... I think I understand this thread more now that Kristina has elaborated on everything. I don't like that people keep the task lists to use again later (the exception TBD), or get the task list from others either, so it's an interesting idea. It'll keep people from complaining about how easy explorations are, too, I bet. (Well.. maybe)

And since it was explained that it wouldn't interfere with published explorations, which was my main concern, then... I think it would be neat to have some like that.

[Special K]

Even just one exploration to test it out might be fun. I don't know whether or not it would make them any "harder" since mass clickers can still level up whatever pokemon they need in the walker pretty quickly, but at least they wouldn't know in advance what to level up from the start... surprise!

[Zaltys]

I dislike this idea, for three reasons.
Firstly, I like to help others by breeding exploration pokes and making sure that they're available in shelter/safari. Can't do that if they're random.

Secondly, I'd say that explorations are already too difficult, no need to make them more laborious. Legendaries used to be given away by lottery, among active players. No effort required. Compared to that, the current system is much harder. Casuals should be able to get legendaries too.

Thirdly... I simply don't enjoy explorations. They get in the way of all my goals and slow down my progress to crawl, but have to be completed to get a full dex. Anything that makes them slower or harder just makes the game more tedious for me.

[Jen]

I dislike this idea, for three reasons.
Firstly, I like to help others by breeding exploration pokes and making sure that they're available in shelter/safari. Can't do that if they're random.

Secondly, I'd say that explorations are already too difficult, no need to make them more laborious. Legendaries used to be given away by lottery, among active players. No effort required. Compared to that, the current system is much harder. Casuals should be able to get legendaries too.

Thirdly... I simply don't enjoy explorations. They get in the way of all my goals and slow down my progress to crawl, but have to be completed to get a full dex. Anything that makes them slower or harder just makes the game more tedious for me.

1. The shelter will be more full of exploration pokes because they are randomly chosen. Not everyone is rushing to grab the same ones.

2. I find them to be too easy. Completing them between 1-3 days, depending on how lazy I am.

The old event system used to give them away to both active and non-active players. It was annoying when non-active players were getting legends while the active ones were getting skipped over. There was a lot of complaining about this and explorations have made it fair.

3. That's your opinion. Though, if they're that tedious for you, no ones forcing you to do them and hindering you from your current goals.

[Necco]

I like this, and it'd be incredibly easy to code "pick any random common 600-bst (fully evolved) Pokemon besides Ditto" or whatever for an exploration task.


Not to dis on explorations, they're great, but the stories are not THAT terribly compelling enough to the point where the fact that it's a Poliwrath and not any other (insert fighting type here) really matters that much. It's not an in-depth character study of Poliwrath. It doesn't tell a long story about Poliwrath's family life. If it was Toxicroak I think honestly all wording would be the same except the word "Poliwrath."

But for the matter of art, it would be easiest to fit to new explorations. Honestly, a story could easily be written with this already in mind, since if a random trainer who is not in the Pokemon canon and is never mentioned anywhere else on the site says they are missing 3 Pokemon, it makes no more or less sense to have those Pokemon be a Pidgey, Girafarig, and a Smoochum than it does to have them be a Spearow, Magnemite, and Abra.

If the story requires say, a strong fighting Pokemon that would make sense punching because the story has it punching something, Hitmonchan, Machoke, Poliwrath, Toxicroak, etc would all make an equal amount of sense.

It would also solve an issue that I really hate to mention, people completing explorations faster because a friend did it and told them exactly what Pokemon they need so they could start raising them the second the exploration is started. If the Pokemon needed were random, that would ensure that everyone doing the exploration properly started raising the Pokemon on the task that required it.

I don't think it would make explorations "harder" in any way, unless it's really that much harder to find Magnemite than Scyther, so to speak. It could even easily be set up to pick only Pokemon of the same rarity, or even to pick from just a small list. If an exploration has say, 3 tasks that ask for Pokemon, and for example, one of those tasks asks for a single Pokemon, one asks for 3 Pokemon, and one asks for 4 Pokemon,, and all of the Pokemon involved are randomized, that gives you a total of 8 random Pokemon.

If each Pokemon is randomized out of only three choices, which is a small number of choices, that gives 6,561 possible combinations for that exploration. That's a lot of variety, isn't it?

Even if there were only two choices for each, that'd be 256 variations.

And honestly, it'd give a use to some more common Pokemon that are relatively useless compared to other common Pokemon that happen to be asked for by an exploration.

[Zaltys]

1. The shelter will be more full of exploration pokes because they are randomly chosen. Not everyone is rushing to grab the same ones.

There are plenty of pokes that are rarely seen in the shelter/safari. Some players would get easy ones and some would get something that's almost impossible to find. Hardly fair. I spent months trying to find the last pokes for my dex, would be harsh to get such for an exploration. If there's nobody breeding them, then there's none in the shelter.

...and as I said, I enjoy helping others. It's fun to breed the exploration pokes, for those who need them. Can't do that when they're random.

2. I find them to be too easy. Completing them between 1-3 days, depending on how lazy I am. The old event system used to give them away to both active and non-active players. It was annoying when non-active players were getting legends while the active ones were getting skipped over. There was a lot of complaining about this and explorations have made it fair.

You find them too easy, but there are many who are unable to complete them.
Explorations are better than the old giveaways, but they must remain simple enough to be completed by both hardcore and casual.

For instance, take a look at Babysitting Adventure. Average completion time: 676.93. That's 28 day average. Too difficult. Many failed and there was a lot of complaining. More than during the old events, if I remember correctly.

3. That's your opinion. Though, if they're that tedious for you, no ones forcing you to do them and hindering you from your current goals.

Gotta catch them all.
Anyway... The main reason why I like this game is because it caters to so many playstyles. Fun for everyone, not for just one type of players.
We are able to set our own goals. Many things are based on luck, instead of how much time or money you sink in the game. That's what makes this game unique and fun -- and I hope that it remains such.

I feel that explorations are already too restrictive, they force players into one playstyle. If anything, they should be easier.

This post has been edited by Zaltys: Aug 9 2011, 05:14 AM

[Nic]

This would maybe work for some of the normal explorations but not for the monthly explorations, TBD, or Deoxys ones for the reasons that Zaltys had given above. It really wouldn't be fair to the players who are casual if this were to effect all explorations, so yeah.

Just make sure (as said above) that the randomization actually fits into the story. Just because the story mentions a good fighter doesn't mean that Breloom would fit into the Unown exploration...

[Manah]

Just make sure (as said above) that the randomization actually fits into the story. Just because the story mentions a good fighter doesn't mean that Breloom would fit into the Unown exploration...

Agreed.
It would even make more sense in some cases, story-wise. Let's say you randomly decide to take a walk in a forest, and suddenly a wild plant pokemon comes out of nowhere and attacks you - I'd just use whatever fire pokemon I happen to have with me to fight it. I don't think anyone would say "could you wait a minute before you attack me, I need to go find a Charizard first". xD

[Yamper]

Just throwing my 2 cents in here with the whole explorations being too hard for people.

Let's look at it this way. If people don't complete it, it's their own fault. 1 month is plenty long enough to do what. A average of 12 tasks? Some of those are say "get a specific item" with the rate of certain items being in the backroom and when the shop decides to rotate it's not that hard to get an item. If you have to wait a couple days then that's fine.

***I understand some people don't have amazing computers and able to mass click or w/e, but the majority of explorations that have a time limit have too harder clicking tasks. I think the most I've seen was... 3000 clicks? There are plenty of guides for slower computers and different browsers for those who actually bother finding them.

For instance, take a look at Babysitting Adventure. Average completion time: 676.93. That's 28 day average. Too difficult. Many failed and there was a lot of complaining.

I didn't see any complaining but ehh. Like I mentioned below, no-one said it would be easy to get them. Besides, Baby-Sitting adventure has the most completed for a Legendary, so I really don't understand why you're saying it's too difficult..?

Oh... and with the old event system, not everyone got one. With this one? Not everyone gets one If people really want to get these legendaries, then they need to work harder. No-one said it would be easy to get them. They're designed to make you work for it - and to me, that's what they do, and quite honestly, 1 month is plenty of time. 30-31 days to do 12 tasks. Some which wouldn't take an hour or so.

But yeah... adding onto what Jen said, if you really don't like explorations, no-one is making you do them. I understand your goal is to get them all, as is quite a lot of people, so you're not alone with that respect. I just think you're talking more from a personal level than a generalising level :/

*tosses 2 cents onto the thread charity bucket*

*** Yeah this part is invalid now. Largest amount of clicks that's NOT TBD is Genesect with 7000 clicks. Although that being said with the new site layout and multiple browser massclicking threads it shouldn't be that difficult for people.

This post has been edited by Starships: Feb 23 2012, 01:12 PM