[X] My Assistant

[Master Houndoom]

I'd like to know the reason for level modifications on evolved pokémon. The game itself doesn't put these restrictions on a pokémon. The only thing that changes when a pokemon levels is that they learn moves later. They get from level 1 to level 100 just as quickly evolved or not.

In the rules, it states that there is a modifier, and that even if I choose not to level my pokémon, the modifier is in place. I would like to know what the use of the modifier is. Is it to restrict the speed at which a pokémon levels? That can be counteracted by simply having less pokémon in your party. Is it to keep a pokémon from becoming too powerful too fast? That can be bypassed by catching the pokémon you want later, so that you catch it at a higher average.

The reason I ask is simple: I suck at match. I don't want to have to calculate modifiers if I don't have to.

So can I get a review of this rule?

[Troy Bolton]

I have a Gible. I spend all my levels on it. I'm good at RPing, so I get at least 10 levels every time. Within 5 RPs, I have a level 50 Gabite or Garchomp (I can't remember when they evolve) who can basically sweep everything it comes against.

Is it to restrict the speed at which a pokémon levels? That can be counteracted by simply having less pokémon in your party.

Some people like having 6 Pokemon in their party.

aaand I'll finish this later. :P

[Master Houndoom]

How did you get the gible so early? :P

[Troy Bolton]

"Dear Bill Nye,

I would like to capture a level 7 Gible in my roleplay, the Chill of the Wind. May I? We will be heading into a cave, where Gible is usually found.

Sincerely,
Mr. X"


And yes, the game does put a restriction on this. Every time a Pokemon levels up, it requires more experience to level up again.

[Living Arrow]

I understand the aversion to getting a stupidly powerful Pokemon within 5 or so RPs, but who has done 5 RPs? HHH has been in the most RPs, I think, and that's a grand total of 4 since last August... Even after 10 months or so, his team's average is approximately 13/14 since he chose to have a team of 6.

With these restrictions, it is going to take most people about a year to get something like a Dragonite/Salamence/Garchomp etc and I think a lot of people will get bored and leave unless their progression is a little faster than that...

(This is what I was talking about back with the extra training posts so that people who are having particularly slow progression could speed it up a little.)

((Oh, and if we are running a parallel to the game, wild/trained Pokemon give out more exp as you progress since their levels are higher so leveling up is pretty much the same speed throughout... Well, depending on the species' base exp level anyway...))

In a lot of ways, however, I agree that having someone jump on the *over power* wagon is lame. I've been trying to work out another way to suggest for this to work by considering tiers and base exp but everything gets too complicated .
The only thing I could think of would be forcing people to catch 1 more Pokemon per 10 levels but that doesn't mean they will donate levels to what they have just caught so it doesn't really cover the issue at all...
Maybe enforcing a "Your Pokemon must be within 10 levels of each other" rule along with this? *out of ideas*

This thread covers this topic already... post #12=#19

This post has been edited by Living Arrow: Jun 8 2009, 11:44 AM

[Umbrae Calamitas]

Considering this, I do have to add that, like Arrow, I suck at math (except I'm worse, and he knows it). The whole modifiers thing is insanely confusing.

I dunno... if there was another way to work it?

*does even know what a Gible is*

[Toogee]

Isn't it just multiplication?

(# of levels you want to give) x (appropriate modifier) = levels recieved

Get a calculator, problem solved .

[Spamm]

That's basically it. The level modifier was a way of using simple math to somehow stop people from having incredibly powerful pokemon very early on. The math is not hard at all considering everyone has access to an online calculator.

It's also there because levels ARE used for more than just learning moves and evolving. Yes, the rock-paper-scissors formula gives you an edge, but don't even try to beat a level 40 Golem with a level 20 Ivysaur. You can argue that battling "anime style" would allow you some kind of edge, since Ivysaur could use its vines, etc. to dodge for prolonged periods of time, but it's still much weaker than Golem and inevitably loses. So the levels can also be used to stop god moding before it even happens.

The modifiers are the way they are because it's easier to group pokemon together and give them an exp. gain based on evolution stages. It'd be ridiculous to go through every pokemon and apply individual exp. modifiers to each, chosing a single pokemon as the base gainer (where levels are distributed on a 1:1 ratio).

I understand your concerns with speed, and if you can come up with something that truly is better than the system we have now, I'm sure everyone in the PANE community would gladly accept it. The problem is coming up with something that works, yet is simple. Your other option is to grab a couple buddies and power-roleplay like you'd powerlevel in a video game :P

For everyone still confused about how to work the modifiers, 2gamers has the formula correct. :P

[Master Houndoom]

Well, I had actually meant to let this drop, but there are some exceptions to this rule. Part of what got me about this rule is that it actually cuts out a viable play style that's directly in the game: To choose not to evolve your pokémon and let them learn ther moves sooner. The rule explicitely states that the modifier applies after the evolution level.

I have six on my team. The average level is about 14, and only one has evolved because I gave her the levels to do it. At this rate, I will have a group of socond-of-three tier evolutions battling for the championship, should I continue the way things had gone for me.

I have struggled with bringing this up, but I feel I must, even though I'm potentially slowing down a group of pokémon

Riolu evolves from friendship. Evee evolves from stones, friendship, or a certain location (which I think translates to different stones in PANE). Misdreavus, Murkrow, Glalie (although it has an evolution that would put the modifier on it at a certain level anyway), and various others do not evolve at any certain level, and it's even viable for some not to evolve them at all (misdreavus and murkrow were not two tier evolutions before GenIV). Potentially, I could get many of them to level 100 and then evolve them to their second tier.

I think (and I'm half answering my own question here) that in the case of pokémon that received an evolution at gen IV, the single pokémon modifier would be applied until it evolved, and then the tier-2-of-2 modifier would apply. But what of those that had always had two tier stone/friendship evos? (Vulpix, Riolu, Eevee, etc)

[Living Arrow]

I think (and I'm half answering my own question here) that in the case of pokémon that received an evolution at gen IV, the single pokémon modifier would be applied until it evolved, and then the tier-2-of-2 modifier would apply. But what of those that had always had two tier stone/friendship evos? (Vulpix, Riolu, Eevee, etc)

Er, I think you've over-complicated that one, HHH. The guide said nothing about stone or happiness (etc) evolvers being modified down like non-evolvers.

To clarify for anyone who is confused by this, let's take Lickitung and Tauros as an example:

Lickitung will have a modifier of x1.0 as it is "base-stage" of a "2-stager".
It learns Rollout naturally at level 33, so that makes level 33 it's evolution level.
If you choose not to let it evolve, it will recieve the x0.6 modifier regardless, once it reaches level 33.
Let it evolve, it will still get the x0.6 modifier - the only difference will be acccess to extra moves (such as Gyro Ball) and the novelty of writing about a Lickilicky.

Tauros never evolves and so always receives a modifier of x0.7.

Eevee and any of its evos will be exactly the same as well as any other that are "2-stagers". PANE was created after the release of Gen IV so nothing will be effected like you described (until a new set of evolutions emerge in Gen V - speculated Spring 2010, Japan).

I really hope that made sense...

I think by limiting the leveling up of things like Riolu and Eevee would seriously put people off from bothering with them since a detrimental modifier is in place before they even start!

In any case, I'm really trying to work something out to sort out the speed with which this affects us. Technically, I could have a level 100 Vulpix in a mere 6 RPs but the same time spent on my Butterfree would only get it to level 60.




The one thing that is especially worrying about the current rule set is this:

Say I had a Riolu and a Shellder. Neither evolve by level up, so they will *always* get x1.0 modifier until I choose for them to. Now, I could write a bunch of amazing RPs and get them BOTH to level 40 in no time (a mere 4 perfect RPs). Then, whatever I catch will be level 40 (due to the averages rule) and in a matter of one or two RPs, I have a Garchomp/Dragonite/Salamence/Flygon etc.
So, really, the over-powering too quickly issue is not prevented as much as we first thought.

This post has been edited by Living Arrow: Jun 10 2009, 12:03 PM

[Master Houndoom]

Huuuh...

I looked at the rules, because I could have sworn that there was a 10 level limit to assigning levels to pokémon (which would have kept your pokémon from reaching level 100 in 4 RPs... it would take at least 9) ( found it, it's in the RP grading topic). There I found that levels are supposed to be assigned by the mod. Meaning the mod reads the RP, decides which pokémon deserve how many levels, with the limit being 15 total levels per RP.

Which are then modified by the pokémon's tier.

We haven't followed that rule, that a pokemon is assigned levels by the mods. I don't think it was ever followed, from the first graded RP, and it might be one the mods would say "yeah, you get levels assigned to you, and then assign them to your pokémon). But it has never been stated.

As it is, I am slow levelling in PANE, and, due to having many fewer pokémon, fast levelling in Uprising. I think I've been well within the rules on both counts (In fact, when the current level topic was made, I found I had cheated my pokémon of levels somewhere...)

My next question comes from evolution levels coming in the middle of a current level group. For example, in Uprising, Hinata gained seven levels, from 18 to 25. She evolves at 20. Do I need to take those last five levels and add the modifier, or are those levels grandfathered in at the 1:1 ratio, so long as I use the modifier from then on? Technically, she would lose one level (and Videl, her partner, who also leveld 7 levels from 18 to 25, would not, because the point 8 modifier would not take the level away when rounding...).

Come to think of it, rounding is not touched upon, either...

I know. I'm being a pain in the ass, but I'm onld and suddenly can't stand vaguery...

[Spamm]

Oh damn, I totally forgot about that rule on us determining which pokemon get which levels. Vel and Falkyn graded before me and I was stupid and just did what they did.

And yes, when evolving your pokemon, you add the levels on the current ratio until the evolution level, then add any levels after evolution according to your modifier.

I failed to consider pokemon evolved through stones, trading, friendship, and conditional evolutions. We're going to have to hit the drawing board and determine which level to assign the modifiers to. Thanks for bringing that up.

Again, if you guys don't like the leveling system, feel free to think of something better (I know it's not superb :P ). PANE mods are open to any sensible suggestions.

Edit: Forgot to address rounding. You round up from 0.5 after multiplying. Although I think it may be better to change that rule so that you can keep your level rounded up to the nearest tenth... That'll hafta be discussed as well.