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Breeding Incentives, Mission Cards
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Cycloneblaze
post Aug 23 2017, 06:13 PM
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QUOTE(x Sam @ Feb 13 2017, 06:51 AM) *
QUOTE(Tyranisaur @ Jan 28 2017, 05:27 PM) *
I don't think there's an inherent need to switch breeding pairs often. The issue that should get addressed is that there's a mismatch between what people are breeding and what eggs people want to pick up. In the bigger picture, you would think that most of eggs picked up are for the purpose of shiny hunting, and this takes a while. So it would be natural to not switch out the breeding pair until at least someone get to complete their shiny hunt. How many eggs you need to breed to complete someone's shiny hunt depends on both how many breeders and hunters there are for that pokemon. If there are few hunters and a lot of breeders, then it will take a long time. Even if there are few breeders, it might still take a long time if nobody is hunting them. Finding out which eggs to breed that are useful is not only something we should incentivze, it is also hard to do even if you want to.


I'm probably misunderstanding with the incentivising eggs to breed, but that's why I've included the shiny part to the 'missions' - there's no point breeding things if nobody will hatch them obviously. If I'm getting the wrong end of the stick I do apologise, ha.

I'm bumping this thread inadvertently, because I was reading it again and I wanted to add to this point. What I get from Tyr's rather long-winded post is that if the eggs Mission Cards tell users to breed don't match up with the eggs people need for hunts they're a bit useless. So perhaps the cards (I'm supposing here they're a constant feature in your Daycare) would look at site data and tell people to
  • breed eggs for which the ratio of hunters to breeders is highest (many more hunting this egg than are breeding it)
  • hatch eggs for which the ratio of hunters to breeders is lowest (many more breeding this egg than are hunting it)
thus clearing the Shelter of eggs people aren't using for shiny hunts and adding in eggs that people are hunting. Of course it'd be a little more complex than that otherwise everybody would all be told to breed the same egg, but you get the idea.


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YoRHa No9 Type S
post Aug 23 2017, 09:18 PM
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Again, I think it would be important to make sure the cards only count active users. I'd also add that certain eggs that are always in demand, such as the ones required for TBD and DotW, have their populations weighed against how many active users are on those explorations and not past those tasks. Personally, I think only berry tasks are more annoying than egg tasks.


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AregularFrankief...
post Sep 3 2017, 01:20 AM
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This is definitely an interesting idea, and I'll gladly back it. Would be nice to see and have a use for Relic Items, too. And I didn't know the bot was disabled; today I learned, I guess.


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miu
post Sep 17 2017, 04:17 AM
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I've given this some thought, and if the idea is to incetivise breeding the species that people are actually looking for, then I don't think that leaving the generation of Mission Cards to a bot would help. If there are currently ~200 Pokemon with less than five breeders, odds are that the chosen Pokemon wouldn't be the ones that people are shiny hunting, or those they need for the dex or for explorations.

What if users were the ones that generate the cards? A Mission Card can only be started for a Pokemon with less than five *active* breeders. Others can join that mission if they also need that Pokemon, and others can back a mission by breeding that species. Backers earn rewards: the more eggs they donate to the Shelter, the better the rewards.

 For example: Emme is shiny hunting Natu, and she is the only one breeding it. She starts a new Mission Card for Natu. Others might join her, this way we can tell which Pokemon people need more and help others decide which Card to back. I am hunting popular species that are quite abundant in the shelter, so I dont really have anything I need to breed. I decide to back a mission, so I start breeding Natu and join Emme's Mission Card as a backer. A Mission Card would dissappear after two weeks or so, and then the rewards are given out. The more Natu eggs I donated to the shelter, the better the rewards.

This way we can help people who are shiny hunting less popular species. For people who need something for their dex, it's a quick way to get some eggs for them into the shelter. And I can imagine exploration Pokemon would have Cards up almost all the time, so there would be a decent amount of them in the shelter.


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x Sam
post Sep 17 2017, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE(miu @ Sep 17 2017, 10:17 AM) *
I've given this some thought, and if the idea is to incetivise breeding the species that people are actually looking for, then I don't think that leaving the generation of Mission Cards to a bot would help. If there are currently ~200 Pokemon with less than five breeders, odds are that the chosen Pokemon wouldn't be the ones that people are shiny hunting, or those they need for the dex or for explorations.

What if users were the ones that generate the cards? A Mission Card can only be started for a Pokemon with less than five *active* breeders. Others can join that mission if they also need that Pokemon, and others can back a mission by breeding that species. Backers earn rewards: the more eggs they donate to the Shelter, the better the rewards.

 For example: Emme is shiny hunting Natu, and she is the only one breeding it. She starts a new Mission Card for Natu. Others might join her, this way we can tell which Pokemon people need more and help others decide which Card to back. I am hunting popular species that are quite abundant in the shelter, so I dont really have anything I need to breed. I decide to back a mission, so I start breeding Natu and join Emme's Mission Card as a backer. A Mission Card would dissappear after two weeks or so, and then the rewards are given out. The more Natu eggs I donated to the shelter, the better the rewards.

This way we can help people who are shiny hunting less popular species. For people who need something for their dex, it's a quick way to get some eggs for them into the shelter. And I can imagine exploration Pokemon would have Cards up almost all the time, so there would be a decent amount of them in the shelter.


The idea isn't just about breeding. I get what you're saying, but there are other aspects I mentioned as-well (such as hatching so many eggs of the bred species)


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Emma Uchiha
post Sep 21 2017, 07:33 PM
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I very recently returned to the site after a very, very long hiatus.
I've been having this issue, as well.

Honestly, as much as I'd love to see more of certain eggs, this system is way more complicated than it needs to be. A lot of extra steps that are really just another way to get items. We shouldn't be able to bribe people into helping us, or get incentivized to put our goals on hold to help someone else.

I feel it would be simpler to just remove the mechanic that hides our own eggs in the shelter. The 'Special Egg Limit' was removed due to lower user activity, so why not allow claiming our own bred eggs after x amount of time has passed? We're still limited by how many eggs we can have and hatch in our party/Mobile Walker, and the time limit allows others a chance to grab them before us.

My breeders produce an insane amount of eggs every day and no one wants them. They're just being fried and eaten by the site. I've hatched 75 eggs for my current Tauros shiny hunt, at least 15 of which were from the shelter and lab, whereas I've produced 601+. So I'm breeding more, and more, and more, and just flooding the shelter with more eggs no one wants. Clogging the system. Whereas, if I could see my eggs in the shelter after 72 hours had passed, I could chill on the breeding while I hatched what was already available and take a break to breed something else, thus helping populate another species.



Now, to address the second problem, how do we know what needs an increased population?
Maybe statistics could be put front and center. Weekly polls asking what breedable Pokémon the userbase needs/wants, with results displayed somewhere obvious.

I think this might be partly what the staff was hoping Shiny Races would encourage. Two users seeking the same shiny breeding and benefiting from one another's eggs. But for a site where we rely so much on each other, socializing is always secondary. We mass click people we've never spoken to, take eggs from strangers, etc., so how many people are actually going to challenge random people to shiny races, you know?

This post has been edited by Emma Uchiha: Sep 21 2017, 07:45 PM


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Please consider breeding Tauros to help me with my shiny hunt. Thank you so much!
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x Sam
post Sep 21 2017, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE(Emma Uchiha @ Sep 22 2017, 01:33 AM) *
I very recently returned to the site after a very, very long hiatus.
I've been having this issue, as well.

Honestly, as much as I'd love to see more of certain eggs, this system is way more complicated than it needs to be. A lot of extra steps that are really just another way to get items. We shouldn't be able to bribe people into helping us, or get incentivized to put our goals on hold to help someone else.

I feel it would be simpler to just remove the mechanic that hides our own eggs in the shelter. The 'Special Egg Limit' was removed due to lower user activity, so why not allow claiming our own bred eggs after x amount of time has passed? We're still limited by how many eggs we can have and hatch in our party/Mobile Walker, and the time limit allows others a chance to grab them before us.

My breeders produce an insane amount of eggs every day and no one wants them. They're just being fried and eaten by the site. I've hatched 75 eggs for my current Tauros shiny hunt, at least 15 of which were from the shelter and lab, whereas I've produced 601+. So I'm breeding more, and more, and more, and just flooding the shelter with more eggs no one wants. Clogging the system. Whereas, if I could see my eggs in the shelter after 72 hours had passed, I could chill on the breeding while I hatched what was already available and take a break to breed something else, thus helping populate another species.



Now, to address the second problem, how do we know what needs an increased population?
Maybe statistics could be put front and center. Weekly polls asking what breedable Pokémon the userbase needs/wants, with results displayed somewhere obvious.

I think this might be partly what the staff was hoping Shiny Races would encourage. Two users seeking the same shiny breeding and benefiting from one another's eggs. But for a site where we rely so much on each other, socializing is always secondary. We mass click people we've never spoken to, take eggs from strangers, etc., so how many people are actually going to challenge random people to shiny races, you know?


I get what you're saying, but by removing the factor of allowing yourself to claim your own bred eggs from the shelter would have a knock on effect with other site features, rendering them completely useless.

I see what you mean and I did actually consider it in my original suggestion but I erased it, mostly because of the reasons above.
It's not actually that complicated of a thing, either.
Items aren't necessary, it was just something that I threw in. If people have an incentive to get goodies, people will do things. That's how it works.


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Emma Uchiha
post Sep 22 2017, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE(x Sam @ Sep 21 2017, 09:56 PM) *
I get what you're saying, but by removing the factor of allowing yourself to claim your own bred eggs from the shelter would have a knock on effect with other site features, rendering them completely useless.

I see what you mean and I did actually consider it in my original suggestion but I erased it, mostly because of the reasons above.
It's not actually that complicated of a thing, either.
Items aren't necessary, it was just something that I threw in. If people have an incentive to get goodies, people will do things. That's how it works.


A 72-hour waiting period between when you release any given set of eggs and when you can adopt them seems like it would negate any ill effects on other systems on-site. I think I get what you're saying, but I can't think of anything it would affect negatively. Is there anything specific that came to mind for you?

I figure, too, if I could pick up more eggs, I could complete my shiny hunt faster, and I could move on to breeding something else sooner. I won't stop breeding Tauros until I no longer need Tauros, especially because it's currently my only reliable source of Tauros eggs, and I imagine most people are the same.

You're absolutely right, people won't do something for nothing, but what I more meant was, we should try to think of something where breeding the eggs is the reward in itself, or that at least discourages people from breeding hundreds of eggs only they want.
Because artificially influencing Pokémon population doesn't seem like a good thing, we have plenty of reference for that - the number of Mimikyu/Cutiefly everywhere after the SWSH started is ridiculous. There are too many people breeding, even considering how many are hunting, and they're showing up more in the Lab, as well, to further decrease the need for, according to the stats page, 483 breeders among the three SWSH 'mons. 483 breeders who would otherwise be breeding less popular Pokémon, probably many of which who wrongfully believe they're helping the hunt by breeding those overpopulated Pokémon even if they've finished it themselves.


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Please consider breeding Tauros to help me with my shiny hunt. Thank you so much!
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