[X] My Assistant

[SallyAnn]

Overall I am loving these themed events but:

I have to agree with the different stepped eggs giving different amounts of coins, or even try to scale so that all eggs for a particular event are the exact same size - otherwise it's the same old story with everyone just grabbing the same 3 eggs over and over and over and over.

Also there are so many Pokémon nowadays I am not sure why the same old pokies seem to be coming up over and over for the events - Porygon was literally in the last event, munna has been in 1 or 2 events already, Amaura was in the fossil event already as well.

Plus you now know that 50% of Christmas exchange gifts will be munna/cleffa/igglybuff

This post has been edited by SallyAnn: Oct 23 2022, 09:00 AM

[Vulpix D]

Maybe i can get all the Star Pieces. Extra PC Boxes are expensive

But i'll be lucky to get 100 coins for one of the Deoxys forms i need.

This post has been edited by Vulpix D: Oct 23 2022, 01:13 PM

[Naixatloz]

I'm ready to destroy my health to get that Arceus.

[ThunderMoss]

Lots of good comments to respond to so I will place them all in a single post.

@KitsuYuuki

Regarding unlimited summons items it changes the historical game balance. Over 10+ years (but some time off) I managed about 1000 summons. With the last event alone I earned well over 200 summoning items... and one hatched shiny! I was happy to summon and hatch but this makes summons more of scheduling matter than something special. Getting tons of them from explorations doesn't really compare when I earned two years worth in a single two week period. Yes, I was one of the top coin gatherers but am planning to try and moderate this -- so asking for limits makes my change easier.

@The Kraken

I think we mostly agree? Jade provided a more thorough explanation of how the old coin system was 24+ hour madness rat race sort of unhealthy choices. New system much better for more balanced play and planning and not a few winners take all.

I also agree that coins should just carry over. The difficulty of earning coins and their purchasing power hasn't really changed from one event to the next. Until we get a 'Karp event... NO! Allowing carry over would be a real boost for those who wish the Sh. Legendary voucher but it might take them two or more events based on their style of play. Or carry over could be capped at 600 coins to avoid any hiccups in changes to the earn/spend economy.

@Professor Euc

Healthier is not playing all day (most every day) and something both of us have considered and adjusted somewhat over the past while. At least I hope we are both making adjustments towards how we would prefer to play. I know I enjoyed a lot of summer excursions away from screens and my mouse/keyboard are happier to not be worked so hard.

Hoppy's summoning spree (and another later than night) was quite wonderful to stumble upon and a joyful sharing. But it also was just another party of legendaries after having dozens of parties of legendaries over the preceding week. So... not quite as special as it would have been pre-event shop. Seeing multiple legendary eggs in a single lab screen and having to consider which was most special was a new experience.

@Jade

Thank you for explaining the old coin system. I agree the new one is much better balance for all levels of player activity. Sh. Vouchers still bother me relative to game play balance but that is my personal choice and I do not have to ever use them. I know other players have been very happy to earn and use their vouchers.

[ThunderMoss]

I have a question about the 5000 coin Arceus. Is this just a regular old Arceus like you can get after completing all the specific type Arceus explorations? Can it be released or will it just be one more perma-resident in the PC?

Not that it isn't a very special resident and taking only a single space but I have a lot of other very special residents each taking up only a single space.

I am hoping some of the players who did the exploration after finishing all the typed Arceus will respond. I have not yet been curious enough to explore this little detail as the exploration series wore me out despite my efforts to spread them out.

[Level-X]

I have a question about the 5000 coin Arceus. Is this just a regular old Arceus like you can get after completing all the specific type Arceus explorations? Can it be released or will it just be one more perma-resident in the PC?

Not that it isn't a very special resident and taking only a single space but I have a lot of other very special residents each taking up only a single space.

I am hoping some of the players who did the exploration after finishing all the typed Arceus will respond. I have not yet been curious enough to explore this little detail as the exploration series wore me out despite my efforts to spread them out.

I would think that it works just like the current Normal Typed Arceus from the Exploration! This Arceus just gives users the ability to bypass shard hunting for the elusive Normal Typed Arceus!
If it can be released it will vanish from existence.



This post has been edited by Level-X: Oct 23 2022, 08:52 PM

[Jade]

@Jade

Thank you for explaining the old coin system. I agree the new one is much better balance for all levels of player activity. Sh. Vouchers still bother me relative to game play balance but that is my personal choice and I do not have to ever use them. I know other players have been very happy to earn and use their vouchers.

I suppose the way I look at it is simply that just because the site has become more gracious in these top end prizes (which, I mean, from responses still does appear to be quite a bit of work for the average player), I feel like it doesn't necessarily negate the value of the shinies acquired beforehand?

I mean I'll always be proud of getting Virizion and Ditto in my second run through of their explorations. Or that Jaden my darling Jolteon took 1.8k eggs to get and started before multipliers were even a THING on this site. Or that my shiny Easter Buneary took an insane 1.5k lol. Oh and I don't forget spending literal HOURS in the shelter waiting for someone to drop a Zapdos egg back when legendries didn't have explorations and the only way to get them were from the "gift drops" (and actually managing to get one!) - list goes on but they are all my proud accomplishments.

But I'm also like..... really grateful that I have more freedoms I didn't really feel I had before? Like, prize points. I no longer feel I need to horde them just so I can mass summon Rayquaza anymore. I finally felt free enough to USE the trove of shiny legend vouchers I gained on the site throughout the years from events because I now am confidant I'll get another. I finally can consider throwing other things in my daycare that aren't novelty only pokemon if I wanted to (because my list of wanted novelty shinies was also like a mile long LOL).

And those are just personal positives on top of the overall site/economical ones I mentioned before. But you know obvs that's just me. I'm not trying to negate your - or anyone's - misgivings on the matter. Just want to provide another counterpoint to it.

This post has been edited by Jade: Oct 23 2022, 11:10 PM

[Naixatloz]

I'm ready to destroy my health to get that Arceus.

Two hours in and my wrist is already sore... abort mission.

[PokemonTrainerAl...]

Oh heck yeah, I was already hunting 3 of these too -- its a win win!

[pochamachan]

I just came back to this event from a six-year hiatus and it's been a lot of fun! Really gets me back in the rhythm of clicking again.

[ThunderMoss]

@Level-X

Thank you for the additional information regarding the "just your standard space goat". I am still curious if this sort can be released... or if those who seek to hunt them end up with a box of them... I should ask Jane should I revisit Discord. My Normal Arceus doe not provide a release option so I would assume those from the exploration would be the same.

And those are just personal positives on top of the overall site/economical ones I mentioned before. But you know obvs that's just me. I'm not trying to negate your - or anyone's - misgivings on the matter. Just want to provide another counterpoint to it.

I accumulated event fatigue rapidly during the hyper-active (and productive) Hatch+ start for the current event. And seeing another arrives tomorrow am considering what interests me. My spiritual guide for GPX offers the same advice each time I ask her for how to proceed: "What is most fun." So I very much appreciate that the Gift Shop provides flexibility for considering what is fun for each of us.

Being at the screen and giving attention to the same activity all day usually is not the most fun.

Play healthy. Have fun. Do not hafta click 'em all all the time.

Regards,
-TM

[Delcatty]

(Oops I didn't pay any attention to the forums and thought all the discussion would be on discord and now I'm late to the party.)

Dropping some opinions of my own.

Re: egg steps vs coin amounts -- yes please. I would have adored doing more Absol/Nidoran/Amaura if I could "afford" to do so while also making my coin goal, but it just wasn't feasible. (I'm still hoping to do a day or so of them at the end if I can, but that's kinda going to have to depend on how quickly I can hit said goal.) Having all eggs be more proportional to steps instead of having low-step-count eggs be objectively correct as far as cpm would be really nice and honestly lead to more variety in general.

Re: 5k for Arceus -- Yeah, it's too dang high. Even as someone who's going for it because I absolutely HATE doing explorations and so there's no way for me to get it otherwise, 5k is too much. Personally, I'd rather see it be 2-3k, because I feel like that's more reasonably attainable while also being a big goal, but ymmv.

Re: Increasing limit from 2 on summon items -- Yes please.

More specific replies:

My other thought on the coin events in general is that they have lost some of their initial charm. Old old events were of the whoever gets the most gets the spiffy prize. But after I and others realized the top 5-10 all got the same prize there was less of a push for the overall lead and to just be in the top group. This was healthier.

I disagree entirely. At least the current event system gives everyone a fair shot at getting the prizes they want, and isn't dependent on others who might have unlimited free time and resources to hog the first spots.

100% agreed with Kraken here. Giving only the top X rewards (or way better rewards) just feels punishing to people who can't put in the same time/energy that others can. Not everyone's life circumstances allow them hours upon hours a day, and the coin events are actually a REALLY nice balance of that where people who only get a few coins still at least get something, while the people who put in the most still get proportionally rewarded for the effort put in. Everyone gets rewarded in some way or another, and it's mostly a lot healthier. (Though honestly I do feel like the 5k Arceus being so high is definitely at least bordering on negatively impacting my health, if not actually already doing so.)

It's also redrummed up a LOT of interest back in the game, and we're getting pluses and players like we haven't in a long time. Overall, these events are an overall positive both for the site's revenue and us.
You take away the prizes, you take away like 90% of the people's desires to play during these times. The average player doesn't want to or can't put that much play time into this game and it should, honestly, be fair to all of us.

This, 100%. I barely played GPX at all between 2010 and 2022. I would occasionally come back for a few days at a time (like every 2-3 years probably), but never really got into it before. Then I came back in August right as the Beach event started, and I've had an absolute blast. If it weren't for the guaranteed prizes just by hatching, I don't think I would've stayed at all, let alone been so active and made friends on the discord. I know I'm "just one person" and no more important than anyone else, but I definitely feel like I can't be the only person around for whom that story is shared.

But I'm also like..... really grateful that I have more freedoms I didn't really feel I had before? Like, prize points. I no longer feel I need to horde them just so I can mass summon Rayquaza anymore. I finally felt free enough to USE the trove of shiny legend vouchers I gained on the site throughout the years from events because I now am confidant I'll get another. I finally can consider throwing other things in my daycare that aren't novelty only pokemon if I wanted to (because my list of wanted novelty shinies was also like a mile long LOL).

Again, 100% this. Newer or returning players (or even long-time veterans) having more freedoms and general Nice Thing Availability is great. Old legendaries/summon shinies are still just as shiny and summoned as they were before, and if absolutely necessary, there's always the box on the right that shows the summon/hatch date to show "Hey, I got this when summons were rarer" if that matters so much to you personally. (Not looking down on anyone for it, and trying to phrase that as best as I can to make that clear, but I'm not fantastic at words.)

This post has been edited by Delcatty: Oct 30 2022, 08:56 PM

[Supernewf]

I really do like the way the coin events are these days. There is def some room for improvement but I really enjoy it. Setting your own goals on what prizes to aim for ect is fun. The event is also good for getting shiny's. the lists of pokemon have been decent so far too. Im just tossing in my opinion really but Ive really enjoyed playing during events.

[ThunderMoss]

More specific replies:

My other thought on the coin events in general is that they have lost some of their initial charm. Old old events were of the whoever gets the most gets the spiffy prize. But after I and others realized the top 5-10 all got the same prize there was less of a push for the overall lead and to just be in the top group. This was healthier.

I disagree entirely. At least the current event system gives everyone a fair shot at getting the prizes they want, and isn't dependent on others who might have unlimited free time and resources to hog the first spots.

100% agreed with Kraken here. Giving only the top X rewards (or way better rewards) just feels punishing to people who can't put in the same time/energy that others can. Not everyone's life circumstances allow them hours upon hours a day, and the coin events are actually a REALLY nice balance of that where people who only get a few coins still at least get something, while the people who put in the most still get proportionally rewarded for the effort put in. Everyone gets rewarded in some way or another, and it's mostly a lot healthier. (Though honestly I do feel like the 5k Arceus being so high is definitely at least bordering on negatively impacting my health, if not actually already doing so.)

OK. Now I understand how Kraken (and others) disagreed with what I wrote. I am slow to see how my words were unclear. In discussing the first and subsequent mad dashes I meant only it was healthier (better play) when one realized that it was only useful to be among the first group rather than the top player compared to the prior race to be the top. So it went from really excessive to just merely excessive to get a prize which was not even known until later.

The coin shop... is far far better play and allows far broader participation and known levels of effort to achieve prizes rather than needing to be in the top 1% (or 0.1%).

I did not mean to suggest a return to anything like the old top maniac playing being the only path to the best prizes.

I was trying to suggest that just as there are limits on the supply of Sh. Vouchers (and Flame Orbs!) that having a limit on the stock of Summon Items/Fossils would provide for a better balance of prizes and a more clear diminishing return from maniac playing.

Regards,
-TM

[AdmiralPerry]

I've been out of the loop and only just now found out about that Arceus. Oof. I want it. No way I can get it. Probably won't be returning either, and if it does it probably won't be for awhile. 5,000 coins, is that even possible? I feel like it isn't, but I could be wrong. Either way, I feel like that requirement needs to be lowered if it does make a return, or some adjustments made to the amount of coins we can get from hatching eggs, or something.

Anyway, that's my whining over pixels for the day, carry on.


P.S. Also more box space when. Plz. I'm dying Squirtle. I want to maintain a living dex but with a new region dropping eventually I'm not sure that'll be feasible anymore.

[Professor Eucaly...]

I've been out of the loop and only just now found out about that Arceus. Oof. I want it. No way I can get it. Probably won't be returning either, and if it does it probably won't be for awhile. 5,000 coins, is that even possible? I feel like it isn't, but I could be wrong. Either way, I feel like that requirement needs to be lowered if it does make a return, or some adjustments made to the amount of coins we can get from hatching eggs, or something.

Anyway, that's my whining over pixels for the day, carry on.


P.S. Also more box space when. Plz. I'm dying Squirtle. I want to maintain a living dex but with a new region dropping eventually I'm not sure that'll be feasible anymore.

Somebody actually already bought Arceus! Granted they were very active but given that the event still has a few days left it does seem feasible. That being said, the price is definitely still excessive.

[Naixatloz]

I do feel that 5k is about right for the value this game has historically placed on normal-type Arceus. It's always been meant to be the most exclusive Pokemon on the site by a wide margin. And it's certainly feasible to earn the 5k coins, considering at least one person's already done it and several more are on pace.

As for whether 5k coins is a goal that values users' time and health... I'm much more ehh on that one. I very nearly backed out of trying for it out of concern for my own well-being, and it is absolutely requiring a level of activity from me that I don't think I can or should sustain for much longer than the duration of the event. So I'm of two minds about it, I guess.

[Delcatty]

Somebody actually already bought Arceus! Granted they were very active but given that the event still has a few days left it does seem feasible. That being said, the price is definitely still excessive.

oh hey it's mine The price is 100% excessive, and honest to god, that was definitely more draining than I was realizing it was. Admittedly I struggle with mental health to begin with, but the toll that took on me was absolutely not something I ever should do again. A more reasonable price that's high but not so draining is 100% something I think should be adjusted to if this kind of thing ever happens again.

I do feel that 5k is about right for the value this game has historically placed on normal-type Arceus. It's always been meant to be the most exclusive Pokemon on the site by a wide margin. And it's certainly feasible to earn the 5k coins, considering at least one person's already done it and several more are on pace.

As for whether 5k coins is a goal that values users' time and health... I'm much more ehh on that one. I very nearly backed out of trying for it out of concern for my own well-being, and it is absolutely requiring a level of activity from me that I don't think I can or should sustain for much longer than the duration of the event. So I'm of two minds about it, I guess.

As someone who achieved the 5k Arceus, the amount of time and energy and mental strain I poured into the site to get it were, once the brief adrenaline high wore off, 100% not worth it in the slightest, and while I do still feel some pride looking at that Arceus, it's honestly mostly just bitterness now. Hopefully that changes again in time when I'm no longer feeling as burnt-out and terrible, but for now at least, it's a Regret. There are amounts of coins that would be more feasible while still remaining A Big Challenge for the majority of users (2-3k is my personal suggestion), especially under more normal circumstances. You have to remember with this current event --
There are tons of extremely heavily bred 2k pokemon. Not even 3k, 2k.
There are even more 3k pokemon that are also heavily bred.
We've had three back-to-back Hatch+ in a row which was intentional on my part but still worth mentioning.

That's basically the stars aligning to make 5k more feasible, when at least the other coin events I've been part of, it wouldn't have been nearly in reach for anything but absolute outliers.

That's also not taking into account the physical and emotional cost. Again, not going to get into specifics of mental health because this is neither the time nor the place, but on the sheer physical end of things -- I was active on GPX, on average, for 16-22 hours a day for basically 9 days straight, and when I actually got Arceus, I'd been running on ridiculously low sleep. Now, I did this to myself, sure, but honestly, I don't think there's a healthy way to get the 5k coins from most events, and especially if it becomes a regular thing, I think the amount should definitely be reduced. 5k is fine as an experiment amount, but I don't think it should stay beyond just this once, and if it does, I think it's going to very much induce burnout on many of the people that end up going for it -- especially if they get really really far but just can't quite make it.

[Cajun]

Not sure if the Arceus is the cause or just getting the final egg made it obvious, but my Pokedex Egg Count and Unique Eggs Obtained stat are out of sync, 606 and 605 respectively.

[Naixatloz]

As someone who achieved the 5k Arceus, the amount of time and energy and mental strain I poured into the site to get it were, once the brief adrenaline high wore off, 100% not worth it in the slightest, and while I do still feel some pride looking at that Arceus, it's honestly mostly just bitterness now. Hopefully that changes again in time when I'm no longer feeling as burnt-out and terrible, but for now at least, it's a Regret. There are amounts of coins that would be more feasible while still remaining A Big Challenge for the majority of users (2-3k is my personal suggestion), especially under more normal circumstances. You have to remember with this current event --
There are tons of extremely heavily bred 2k pokemon. Not even 3k, 2k.
There are even more 3k pokemon that are also heavily bred.
We've had three back-to-back Hatch+ in a row which was intentional on my part but still worth mentioning.

That's basically the stars aligning to make 5k more feasible, when at least the other coin events I've been part of, it wouldn't have been nearly in reach for anything but absolute outliers.

That's also not taking into account the physical and emotional cost. Again, not going to get into specifics of mental health because this is neither the time nor the place, but on the sheer physical end of things -- I was active on GPX, on average, for 16-22 hours a day for basically 9 days straight, and when I actually got Arceus, I'd been running on ridiculously low sleep. Now, I did this to myself, sure, but honestly, I don't think there's a healthy way to get the 5k coins from most events, and especially if it becomes a regular thing, I think the amount should definitely be reduced. 5k is fine as an experiment amount, but I don't think it should stay beyond just this once, and if it does, I think it's going to very much induce burnout on many of the people that end up going for it -- especially if they get really really far but just can't quite make it.

You also went much harder than anyone else who's been on this grind. Which isn't to say you're to blame for your burnout, because I think all of us who are/were going for the Arceus have been feeling it. There's no getting around the fact that this grind is not a healthy one as it currently stands. I just think it's worth pointing out that the 5k is attainable without going at such a breakneck pace.

And yet I can't shake my belief that 5k feels like the right amount of effort for how rare the game wants normal-type Arceus to be. So rather than reduce the number of coins it takes, my proposal would be to either extend the duration of events that offer Arceus as a prize, or make Arceus a permanent fixture in the coin shop and allow coin balance to roll over from past events. Or even just keep the rollover idea, but have Arceus only show up once or twice a year.

Arceus should remain something people have to put in a lot of work for. My true point of contention is that the frantic pace of the grind is unhealthy and shouldn't be encouraged. Not the idea of the grind itself.