[X] My Assistant

[Kazyx]

Was told I should just make a new thread, rather than bring my half a year old thread back from the grave. So here it is...

Super Smash
Brothers 4
Official Discussion and Speculation Thread

Here we are, boy and girls! As of June 7th 2011, Nintendo officially announced that Super Smash Brothers 4 will be in the works, once Sakurai has completed Kid Icarus: Uprising for the Nintendo 3DS. Here, you can discuss speculations or actual information about the games, even though there's not really anything to go off of right now in terms of actual information.

First of all, Iwata announced that the next generation of SSB is going to be for BOTH the Nintendo 3DS and the new home console, known as the Wii U. Here are some known tidbits of Smash 4, which have been turned into point form by Ankoku over at the Smashboards community.

- Sakurai is using his experience working with Kid Icarus 3DS to smooth the development process of 3DS smash. Mentions he would randomly think about Smash during Kid Icarus development

- "While I'm sure some people just want a new DX (Melee) or X (Brawl), that is not the answer I'm looking for"

- There's a lot of implied differences between the 3DS and WiiU versions. The issue of limitations (or lack thereof) come up ("I could make 50 characters, or double the stages, or make everything prettier (graphically), but with the WiiU I don't have to choose just one of those options"), while he runs into that problem with the 3DS, "maybe something fun like the original smash bros." adding something about a handicap.

- 3DS version will be more "personalized" than the WiiU version, as most likely the handheld machine will only be played by one person. This regards "personal data and achievements." He's probably referring to the stat-keeping mode the Smash games have had and how a handheld version would most likely only be tracking a single person's stats.

- Sakurai feels conflicted, saying something to the effect of "On one hand, a player feels a great sense of accomplishment by beating something really difficult. On the other, if it's too hard, they'll feel a sense of frustration by constantly losing to it." (implied differences between versions)

- Iwata goes on to add that a handheld experience is typically a "fun experience in a short amount of time," and that adjustments would have to be made to work around that.

- "So, for the 3DS version, since you must enjoy it alone, it has a system of rewards that you can customize your character with. And then you can bring these characters from the 3DS to the WiiU to fight on. So one "individual" on a handheld will appear in the "stadium" of the home console." Iwata summarizes by saying "The 3DS version is where players will earn individual achievements for themselves, while the WiiU version will be a place to show those achivements off"

- Sometime late in the Melee development cycle, Iwata told Sakurai "you can never have enough Smash Bros!," to which Sakurai replied "YES YOU CAN." Sakurai apparently doesn't remember this.

- Iwata mentions that he likes how in Smash, both high level and beginner level players can feel a sense of accomplishment in comparison to other fighting games. If you don't know what you're doing in other fighting games, you'll typically get destroyed, in Smash you can earn a few more hits. Sakurai adds onto that saying "You'd think it'd be natural to help new players improve, but when the goal of a fighting game is to beat your opponent down, that becomes difficult." Iwata "feels helpless and weak when he loses badly," and lastly Sakurai adds that "the 3DS version will have ways to help beginner players," going on to suggest co-op "There will be a reward system for good players helping bad ones"

- Apparently the balancing and rebalancing of characters was entirely up to Sakurai, but he's going to ask for some help from other members of the team this time around. He still feels the creator of the game will have the clearest vision of how the balance should look like, but definitely welcomes the help. Iwata asks what type of balancing he's referring to, and Sakurai responds talking about balancing animation/frame/hitbox data, while making sure it makes sense in the scope of the game. It has to "look natural and feels good to land the attack"

- There's implied distinction between casual and competitive play made by Sakurai, saying "all these claims of 'this character is too strong' or 'this character is too weak' varies from person to person." When he looked at the sets of data from Wifi games, all characters had relatively the same level of success. "However, according to the competitive scene, that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere."

- A balance regarding the difficulties of surgical balance changes, and how they don't want characters to "feel the same," adding that specific traits/strengths/weaknesses are intentionally built to differentiate characters. Along with the "oh now that we nerfed this, this other thing is broken," etc. Iwata comments that this type of balancing is ridiculously hard and congratulates Sakurai for pulling it off with every single character by himself.

- Sakurai mentions that while new developers might see this initially as a learning opportunity, it'll eventually turn into a lesson of pain.

- More commentary regarding the extreme level of difficulty regarding balance vs uniqueness in a fighting game cast, with Iwata joking that "I knew I had an eye for talent when I picked you"

- Sakurai comments "the mechanics of a game better fit the system the game is on." The 3DS's small screen, for example, is something they have to work around, making sure the backgrounds and stage structure are clearly visible.

- Iwata comments that some designers enjoy gimmicks like FMVs and cutscenes, because it's where developers get the most free reign to show off their skills.

- Sakurai mentions "I think it'd be best if we can design something that works well and looks good regardless of whether it's on a portable or on an HDTV, but having a different team for each version is also good because we can still make very specialized additions to each." Each individual project will take advantage of each developers "specialty and where they're most likely to apply it."

- Essentially boiling down to "while keeping coherence between the two version is important, they don't want to use that as an excuse to compromise potential features for either version"

- Apparently Sakurai had no direct involvement with either Sonic's or Link's implementation in Brawl.

- He's slightly concerned by the fact that the various branches of Brawl staff worked on different schedules so the development process has gotten rather long. Iwata asks "but now you get to be a lot more hands-on with Smash 4, right?" to which Sakurai answers "Yes, but I'm coming into development right after Kid Icarus finishes, with no rest inbetween. So any help I can get is much appreciated"

- Sakurai says as a game designer and head developer, he really enjoys making something himself and seeing it turn into something good, but if he takes it in the wrong direction he won't reach the people he intends to. With Smash he wants to reach out to as many as he can. Iwata comments "this leaves a lot up to chance when it comes to the finished game," but Sakurai responds "I prefer it to a "stable" series where every sequel is juts the same game with a little bit added on. While it's painful to make something new, it's fun to figure out how." While with Smash, each iteration has a different fun twist, and even someone who doesn't know much about the series can pick apart the differences fairly easily.

- Iwata anguishes over how expensive the project is and that it requires a lot of people.

- Sakurai "Anyway, I look forward to the people you bring to this project, since the success of it is dependent on who you gather for me! Still, even if you don't gather enough people, I wouldn't want to see the project stretched thin, so we could focus on only one system." Iwata: "What? Even after we announced at e3 that we'll be developing for both systems?!" Sakurai: "Well either that or I take a small team and we take five years"

- in the conclusion, Iwata thanks Sakurai, and Sakurai says "thanks, but my time is currently focused on making sure Kid Icarus is perfect for launch!"

Also, during Nintendo's June 7th Press Conference, EA was on stage and had mentioned DLC for their games. Could this potentially mean DLC for the upcoming SSB game? I sure hope so! Imagine the possibilities!

Within the interview, it is mentioned that the 3DS version of SSB4 will have customization features, which can then be transferred to your Wii U version of the game. What this entitles, I'm not sure. However, here are a couple of guesses as to what they will do for that:

• Customization for your character's attributes, such as speed and weight would be understandable, practically turning SSB4 into an RPG/Fighter hybrid, which I believe was done with Dissidia. Not entirely sure as I haven't played it myself.
• The ability to change your offensive attributes, such as the B-Attacks, A-Attacks and possibly your Grab attacks. This would make a character unique to yourself, and one that suits your own personal tastes.
• The ability to change the basic appearance of your character and certain attacks, such as giving Mario a doctor's cape, which would allow you to change his fireballs into pill capsules, just like Dr. Mario had in Melee.

The most likely however would just be purely cosmetic changes that don't change your character's attributes other than physical appearance, which doesn't change any of the attributes needed for fighting.

With the customization, will have Nintendo gone too far out of the original boundries of the Smash universe, or will they have opened more welcoming doors for first-time players?

What characters would they put into both versions of the game? What kinds of stages? Music? Will they focus more on solo play or multiplayer mode? Will the online mode be better than Brawl, or even more horrendous and unwelcoming? Will there be DLC, and if so, what would they add as DLC?

So many questions, and frankly, so much time to think about them and discuss them before any more information is released on these games.

Discuss away!

[Yamper]

I literally. Cannot wait for this. I can't express my feelings of how excited I am for this game.

Finally, a way to customize characters... making them lighter or heavier.. OH THE SUSPENSE AND ANTICIPATION OF IT ALL

This post has been edited by Volcarona: Jun 10 2011, 10:33 AM

[Radoka Kaname]

This will be amazing
I cannot wait
It needs more Metroid and Sonic characters...
They also need a lot more classic stages... maybe an update to the spear pillar replacing Cresselia with Giratina... or the Distortion world...
I have to stop now before I go insane with excitement

[Dazmi]

I don't really care for it for the 3DS, but if there's a WiiU version then I'm buying.

-Pong, both paddle and ball
-Bomberman
-Animal Crossing Kids
-Phoenix Wright
-Dixie Kong, King K. Rool
-Banjo and Kazooie
-Professor Layton
-Conker (Gotta get that Alcohol use in the ESRB rating)
-All the Koopalings (Think Pokemon Trainer).
-Birdo, Daisy, Waluigi. Any Mario character, even Wart.
-Captain Louie
-Rayman
-Amaterasu
-Tetris Block(s)
-Chibi Robo
-Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man
-Mike, or even just the yo-yo
-Sandbag (Do want!)
-Harvest Moon Farmer

Do not want:
-Jigglypuff. If you must, bring us Wigglytuff!
-Solid Snake (just because)
-Mewtwo
-Any Final Fantasy character
-Megaman, Megaman X
-Ryu (Both Ninja Gaiden and Street Fighter)
-Goku/Any Anime character

This post has been edited by Dazmi: Jun 20 2011, 10:24 AM

[Chocolate Puddin...]

Anyone agree that we should get Haxorus as a playable character?

[Radoka Kaname]

I don't really care for it for the 3DS, but if there's a WiiU version then I'm buying.

-Pong, both paddle and ball
-Bomberman
-All the Koopalings (Think Pokemon Trainer).
-Animal Crossing Kid
-Phoenix Wright
-Dixie Kong
-Banjo and Kazooie
-Professor Layton
-Conker
-Birdo, Daisy, Waluigi; Any Mario character
-Captain Louie
-

I think most of those would be cool (pong would be hilarious) some would have to be assisstant trophies though (pong probably wouldn't work well as a playable character)
Banjo, Kazooie and Conker are almost definetly not going to be in it (Microsoft has owned them for a while, and they don't seem to like Nintendo that much)

Do not want:
-Jigglypuff. If you must, bring us Wigglytuff!
-Solid Snake
-Mewtwo
-Any Final Fantasy character

1:YES (although there's almost no way that'll happen since every character from the first has stayed the whole time)
2: I like Snake a bit...
3: Meh I wouldn't care either way
4: YES no Final Fantasy allowed... or Kindom Hearts since that's like exactly the same thing...
*sees edit* 5: Yes no freaking Samus ripoffs that die easily

This post has been edited by Hatsune Miku n Maka Albarn: Jun 10 2011, 11:24 AM

[Chocolate Puddin...]

- Megaman
- Animal Crossing Human (Boy/Girl)
- Toon Zelda/Tetra
- Haxorus
- Scrafty
- Zoroark
- Mewtwo
- Emolga
- Audino
- Watchog
- Bowser Jr.
- Baby Mario & Luigi
- Paper Mario
- Count Bleck
- Shy Guy
- Masked Man (Mother 3)
- Skull Kid
- Ghirahim (Skyward Sword)
- Skyward Sword Link w/ Phi

That's all I can think of for now. Might edit this later.

This post has been edited by Chocolate Pudding: Jun 10 2011, 12:20 PM

[Kazyx]

If Haxorus replaces Lucario then sure! I can't stand Lucario at all. Either that or replace Lucario with Excadrill.

I don't really care for it for the 3DS, but if there's a WiiU version then I'm buying.

-Pong, both paddle and ball
-Bomberman
-All the Koopalings (Think Pokemon Trainer).
-Animal Crossing Kid
-Phoenix Wright
-Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, even Wart.
-Banjo and Kazooie
-Professor Layton
-Conker
-Birdo, Daisy, Waluigi; Any Mario character
-Captain Louie
-Rayman
-Mike, or even just the yo-yo
-Tetris block(s)
-Chibi Robo

Being the sucker for these games I am, I'll probably end up getting both whenever I have the cash for both the 3DS, the Wii U AND both games.

Interesting choices of characters you've got there, Dazmi. Some of them seem to be quite out-of-the-ballpark odd (Such as Pong Paddle + Ball) and some of them would probably not be usable by Nintendo (Banjo and Kazooie, who are owned by Microsoft). I will admit however, if Banjo and Kazooie did show up, I DON'T want them to be the squared-off ones from Nuts and Bolts. I'd rather their more classic look from the original two. And Pong Paddle + Ball would be an interesting character choice. I'd like to see how they'd make that playable.

-Bomberman would be the most explosive character we have ever had in Smash, I think. Even moreso than those SSE bosses. It'd be interesting to see how they'd do him. However, his third-party classing might hold him back, possibly.

-The Koopalings all swap with that staff of theirs they hold. I would class Bowser Jr. as his own character, which I'm pretty sure is what most people would do. he's just had more appearances than the other Koopalings to be classed together with them.

-AC Kid NEEDS to happen. With all these Animal Crossing games out, why isn't there an AC Kid yet? I think it was a smack in the face to AC fans when they made that stage but no AC Kid to go along for the ride.

-Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Conker, Rayman are all third-party characters so I'm not entirely sure if they'd make it in. However, Layton and Wright are both pretty well Nintendo-exclusive if my memory serves correctly, so they might stand a better chance.

-I'd rather K. Rool over Dixie, but if the fans want her in over him I think they'd do that unfortunately. :/

-As much as I'd like to see Waluigi out of those three you mentioned the most, I don't think they'll make any of them playable characters, due to their "multiplayer party-esque" game appearances. The only one who'd most likely make it in would be Waluigi.

-Captain Louie... Hmm. With Olimar, they very well could add Louie. How do you think he'd fight?

-Not quite sure who Mike is, so I have no opinion just yet.

-Tetris Blocks?! Why are so many of your character ideas so fascinating? XD I love this idea, but whether they actually would do something like that I doubt. More likely to be an Assist Trophy, unfortunately.

-Chibi Robo would be an interesting character as well. I haven't personally played his games, so how would you go about playing as him?

[Stratospheric Co...]

Add in Dark Samus and don't make her a Samus clone.
Bring back Roy.
Possibly add in Megaman.
Get rid of Lucario.
Add in Midna and Tingle.

That's my Wish list for SSB4 so far. I might edit it later.

[Radoka Kaname]

-Captain Louie... Hmm. With Olimar, they very well could add Louie. How do you think he'd fight?

in Pikmin 2 after the end you find out Louie has some kind of physchic control over insects...
and His Final Smash could be that Giant Dweevil (I think that's what the spiders with weapons are called... I haven't played Pikmin 2 in years...) covering the field with poison, electricity, fire and maybe water

[Dazmi]

Why are so many of your character ideas so fascinating?

Haha, I hope you didn't think I was being serious about all of them. Also, I dunno.

This post has been edited by Dazmi: Jun 10 2011, 12:08 PM

[Reve]

Yeah, I heard the announcement! When I heard it I expected lots of Cheers, and I knew it =p Anyways, I think it's going to have another Storyline (Hopefully this time I hope not to see Sonic in the end cause I wanted to see him in-action), and this time hopefully I want more characters (No anime or anything, only Nintendo!). I also want more attacks, more ways to avoid attacks... And even more items!

Looking forward to it.

[Lord Raven]

-Jigglypuff. If you must, bring us Wigglytuff!
-Solid Snake
-Mewtwo
-Any Final Fantasy character

I actually wouldn't mind any of those. In fact, Jigglypuff is more or less a legacy character right now.

As for FF chars, if they'll pick anyone it'll be like Cloud Strife... or a GBA/SNES one (Cecil, Terra, Locke, Edgar, Bartz, ?)

Bring back Roy.

Yeah and don't make him a marth clone >_> At least bring in another FE Char. Maybe Sigurd or Celice with the ability to dismount at will with down+B?


I think Plusle&Minun would be good, personally.... I also wouldn't mind Hector from FE7 and i'm not sure I haven't really played Nintendo in a WHILE. Pokemon and Fire Emblem have nearly endless amounts of characters they can choose from whereas most other games... not really. I'd live to see the SSBM/SSBB chars all returning, and something like 60 some chars would actually be fine with me so long as there's a lot of variety.

Here's hoping for Castlevania characters, they did have 6 GBA games to pick from. Or... Tales of Symphonia >_> Kratos Aurion/Lloyd Irving..............

[Kazyx]

Why are so many of your character ideas so fascinating?

Haha, I hope you didn't think I was being serious about all of them.

Some of them I WISH were real, as odd as they are (Tetris Blocks and Pong Paddle mostly).

And my opinions on Choco's choices.

- Megaman
Megaman's probably likely to get into the next game, due to Sonic and Snake's appearances. He's got the highest amount of fanbase wanting him in compared to most other Third-Party characters.
- Animal Crossing Human (Boy/Girl)
As I said previously, I would LOVE for the AC Human to get into the game.
- Toon Zelda/Tetra
Out of these two, I'd rather see Tetra, otherwise we're just going to have a Zelda clone for sure. <__<
- Haxorus, Scrafty, Zoroark, Mewtwo, Emolga, Audino, Watchog
And so begins the Pokemon masquerade! Out of all of these, I'd say Zoroark, Mewtwo, and possibly Scrafty or Haxorus have any chance of getting into the upcoming game. Mewtwo's already been done, so if he does return he better replace Lucario. Zoroark would probably be the more likely candidate though due to being the new "In" Pokemon. Scrafty and Haxorus I believe have a nice enough fanbase to potentially get in.
- Bowser Jr.
As much as I'm not a massive fan of Bowser Jr., his fanbase would probably get him into the game.
- Baby Mario & Luigi
I would rather if they didn't, unless of course they made them come from the Yoshi universe, rather than the Mario one. Mario has enough characters right now.
- Paper Mario, Count Bleck
A good selection of Paper Mario characters, and a nice spin from the regular Mario cast, if you ask me.
- Shy Guy
His fanbase I think is pretty good too. Not as high as Bowser Jr., so I don't think he'd make it in. Unless they decide to do like, 50 characters this game or something.
- Masked Man (Mother 3)
A villain from the Mother series! Grand idea!
- Skull Kid
Interesting idea. I'd like to see what he'd do. Probably a lot of vanishing and teleporting or something of the sort. He'd be quite annoying that way XD
- Ghirahim (Skyward Sword)
A villain from Skyward Sword. Since they didn't do this with TP I'm hoping they'll do it here. Ghirahim seems like an interesting character.
- Skyward Sword Link w/ Phi
Skyward Link will probably replace TP Link, so he'll more than likely be in.

Don't worry. I'll eventually post my own listing of characters and possibly my reasons for putting them in.

[Stratospheric Co...]

I just hope they don't add in anymore MGS characters.

[Kazyx]

Alright. I said I'd post my choices, so here it goes.

Bolded = Will/Has a high chance of staying.
Underlined = Movepool will be altered to accommodate for more personal traits.
Italicized = Will possibly be replaced with a more recent character of the same franchise. Moveset may be altered to accommodate the changes.
Strikethrough* (One Star) = Will possibly be replaced with a more recent unique franchise's character, or will be completely removed from the Smash franchise due to no recent game being released or announced. Strikethroughs are subject to change provided a character's franchise is revived.

Returning Roster Count: 29 Definite
Newcomer Roster Count: 21
Total Roster Counter: 50

Mario
Fox
Pikachu
Yoshi
Kirby
Samus
Donkey Kong
Link
Ness
Captain Falcon
Luigi
Jigglypuff

Ice Climbers*
Bowser
Peach
Zelda
Sheik
Falco
Ganondorf
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch*

Ike
King Dedede
Lucas
Meta Knight
Olimar
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Zero Suit Samus
Wario
Lucario
R.O.B.*
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link
Wolf

Kamek & Koopalings
Bowser Jr.

Baby Mario Bros. (Act similar to Ice Climbers, really.)

Krystal

Ridley or Dark Samus

Black Shadow (The new Ganondorf, as ganondorf has his own unique moveset now)

Skyward Link (Replaces current Link variation (TP->Skyward Sword(Wii)))
Young Link^3D (Replaces current Link variation (Toon->OoT3D(3DS)))

Audino (Replaces Jigglypuff)
Zoroark (Replaces Lucario)
Mewtwo (Triumphant return)
Unova Trainer (Replaces Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle=Oshawott, Ivysaur=Servine, Charizard=Emboar))

Micaiah (Replaces Ike)
Sothe

Masked Man

Louie

Waluigi (Should be classed under Wario's title imo)

Aged Snake (Nicknamed "Old Snake")

Megaman

Ray Mk III

Professor Layton (My mistake. I thought he was a third-party.)

[Lord Raven]

don't remove ike T_T

I just hope they don't add in anymore MGS characters.

Why not? I'd love to be able to play as [MGS4] Raiden. Besides they technically had like... a strange Big Boss/Solid Snake hybrid in Brawl anyway. (There's no way that was Solid, there are enough subtle differences between Solid Snake and Naked Snake that it couldn't have been Solid.)

[Shinzu]

I want this /so/ bad, but with like every other flipping Nintendo console coming out, I won't get it for years and I'll have to sit and listen to everyone saying how good the game is, what their favorite character is, and what not. I'm not saying I don't want it, I think it'd be cool, but I kind of wish they'd have it for, oh, regular Wii. I'm tired of new game coming out on new consoles- I'm already dying inside because I know I'll never get the new OoT game, and now I can start dying from knowing it'll be years before I get this. Well, all I know is that I'm ditching Smash Brothers if it doesn't have Ganondorf in it. Something needs to flipping replace Lucario. PLEASE. I'd be happy with Zoroark (the ONLY dog in Pokemon I like! ).

Mario, Link, Zelda, Fox, Donkey Kong, Marth/Ike/Roy, Pikachu, and a few others I know will most likely return. Hopefully Ganondorf will reappear, and Pokemon Trainer, and maybe Zoroark! :'D

[NinjaFish]

I'm stoked for this. Very. But gaaaad, I have to get a 3DS, don't I? Maybe I can just... convince my parents to get one for me. >:3

As for my characters predictions... Look below.

-Hotel Dusk
As strange as that may seem, I want to see a little more Kyle Hyde in SSB4. Other than just a trophy. It'll be interesting to see what they'll come up with if he does get on the roster.

-Ace Attorney
Same reason as Hotel Dusk. I love this series. 'Nuff said. However, I don't think it'll be possible because AA is a Capcom thing, even though they're mostly based on the Nintendo consoles. There's still that chance.

-Advance Wars
I was thinking that some of the COs could be on the roster, such as Andy, or Will from Days of Ruin. Their CO powers can lend some inspiration for Smash Attacks if they're going to be implemented, and also their hit and misses listed on their profile in the game can become attacks. :3

-Pokemon
Some of the new BW Pokemon might be in SSB4. Like some of the others have said, Zoroark would make a great character if done right. And Mewtwo should come back. >:3

Iunno what else can I think of for the newcomers... >_>

And also, are there going to be stickers like in Brawl? I liked that... It was fun going through to look at all the pictures that came from games over the years. :> On the subject of stickers, how about what will adventure mode be like? I would like something somewhat similar to the Subspace Emissary, but not completely related to it. We'll just have to wait and see...

[Mars Adept Enten]

I mentioned this in the other Smash Bros. 4 thread, but I really, really, really want Isaac from Golden Sun in the game. (Big surprise, eh?) Anyone who's played any of the games in the series will probably agree with me. (Right, AetherWolf? ) I would personally like to see his 17-year old GBA games version, as opposed to the 47-going on 27-year old Dark Dawn version. If he's added, I'll likely have a fangasm of sheer, unadulterated glee. *glances at user title and sig* He could have Psynergy and sword-based attacks for his moveset. I've thought of a few moves, but I haven't finalized my possible moveset for him.

EDIT: Toda, regarding the AC characters, I think the reason we won't see them as playables is because of some nonsense about the series being 'non-violent' Even though your characters can use AXES.

This post has been edited by Mars Adept Enten: Jun 11 2011, 04:38 PM